NJS

I agree but in that case I think the buck should have stopped with Dick (the woman in charge on the day) and Blair (the copper).

Unbelievable because I don't buy every word in it? Someone made the reference to Hillsborough earlier (Stevie probably) - the scousers will have you believe that they were 'totally innocent' that day but in reality it's considered that a minority of their fans had a small level of responsibility. Innocent people were shot and that action was 100% wrong - what I'm saying is though I don't personally believe that every single person who marched that day didn't encite the troops in some way. But let me re-iterrate, it in no way excused or justified what occurred. I agree with that - comparing it with Hillsborough is correct in the sense that accepting the conclusions doesn't mean you can't hold certain "reservations".

The retard has a point in his way - patriotism should never blind you to the excesses of the state.

The thing is Craig as Cameron alluded to, soldiers are supposed to be subject to the rule of law in their actions. When I mentioned to LM that I supported sometimes "going down to their level" I didn't mean paratroopers firing on protestors who were innocent - I meant taking out McGuinness and his ilk "behind closed doors". In public at least, you can't claim the moral high ground if you allow indiscipline like this to go unpunished. As I said 40 years on is probably too late and an acknowledgement that is was wrong should end the matter as far as I'm concerned.

I think it was a crime at the time but I don't see the point in prosecuting people 40 years on - maybe the bloke in charge but not the blokes on the ground.

Pearce mentioned that they'd pretty much been crap since winning it in 2006 - though they have had a habit of raising their game for the WC. I thought they were doing a bit of a Germany in building a new, young team as I hadn't heard of quite a few of them but it was mentioned their average age was 28 - that figure maybe skewed by Cannavaro and Buffon though.

Ditto, but the public sector comparison is like you taking out a bank loan to employ your wife to manage your finances. Only if she wasn't allowed to spend any money - public sector workers can generate demand outside of the public sector "world". As I've also argued if they say for the sake of argument closed Longbenton the knock on effect in private sector on Tyneside would be massive. I honestly think that they don't take knock on job losses into effect when working out cuts from the public sector.

I fully admit to not being an economist but I don't see how putting a million people out of work through cuts and the subsequent affect on benefits, tax revenue and demand can in anyway lead to a recovery.

Did you also notice CT that the head of this new body said that Darling's March budget and Labours plans for the government term would have cut the deficit to its required level? Of course they intended to cut as well but at least it was without the relish-filled abandonment of the Tories.

1. I think the figures may have been too optimistic because of not taking into account the Euro shit rather than electioneering. 2. They'll abandon the "independent" stats once they look dodgy for them.

If the other refs follow this blokes example, the Jormans and the Italians and the rest of the usual suspects are going to get a lot of yellows for diving.

This is why I'm not a good international/neutral football fan - too many grudges - while recognising it wasn't a red I just thought "take that you worky-ticket scouse cunt".

Am I missing something? I don't know - I've just always seen him as a diver - his performance against us in the FA cup quarter final (when Elliot got sent off) was a classic. Unless I'm missing something in your confusion

I can't see England beating good sides - too much reliance on Rooney and Gerrard imo. I also think Lampard's "stroll around arrogantly looking good" style works for Chelsea but just doesn't work for England - don't know why. I hate Joe Cole for being a cheat but I'd still have brought him on instead of Wright-Phillips. Heskey may win a few headers but he still remains an utter donkey for me - I would have been astonished if he's actually scored that one on one.

Take away the 52 week emphasis and that sums up how I feel - though I doin't actively hope that England lose.

Lefties in general love knocking Israel while giving Muslims a bit of an easy ride - I think because they see right wing anti-muslim feeling as something to be opposed. I on the other hand see religious fuckwittery on both sides which I have no respect for so tend to call cuntery on both sides (or at least I try to).

I'd echo that the joke would be okay if you knew her better - I work with Germans and have exchanged good war jokes/comments with a few but only with ones I knew well ehough to joke about general things as well.

That well known English indigenous animal the Lion - always thought it was out of place - should have used bears or wolves.

How does that fit with his big society ethos which seeks a reduced role for government? Do you think he wants to spend the same money on less things (not exactly a bad idea) or perhaps he actually wants more scope in the future for tax cuts? Not realising a Tory's entire purpose is lower tax for the rich is what's really beyond stupid.

The "We are..." he spouts always gets a "no, you're a fucking actor" from me. The "77 out of 111 women agreed" bugs me as well.

Okay maybe not at a personal level but I still think any regulation of the City or the banks as people have called for with hindsight would have been met with "Old labour, attacking business as usual". I may have been the right thing to do (though of course it would have reduced income as well) but politically it would have been suicide. The Tories would never have even contemplated it.

Of course Joe Public himself has to shoulder some blame for revelling in the credit provided by that deregulation. As I've said before if Brown had at any time said "I'm going to massively limit personal credit and lending" he would have been crucified.

The shares will depend on timing but I've mentioned before that a lot of the loans given wwre at 11% which will raise a fortune - not sure if it's counted though.

There's a lot of shit being taked about "millions of pointless public sector jobs" being created by Labour - I saw some figures yesterday which showed the percentage of public workers of all jobs and its been pretty set at about 20% even going back through Major's time. If the bank bailout is included then the figures will go "off the scale" if it isn't then they won't.

I was a bit disappointed with Jon Stewart's bit on Helen Thomas (though perfectly understand it at the same time given he's Jewish) but he made the same mistake of ignoring the "and America and everywhere else" part of the quote. He did say it was more of a case of seeing someone you respected fuck up I suppose.