Thatcher has been checked into hospital...

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3277]

Good or bad, we could have done with her strong leadership in recent years rather than become the yank/euro puppet we have.

 

There was no bigger yank puppet than thatcher.

 

Thatcher did many things wrong, but if anyone was the poodle in the UK/US relationship with her and Reagan, it was Reagan (she got him to back down over several major things and led him like a bull with a nose ring on several others).

 

Unlike Blair with Bush, who wasn't just his poodle, but was happy enough to slip into a gimp suit for Bush when asked (and is about to start lecturing on "how to be a religious nutter for profit" in the USA soon, Blair that is).

 

Name them? However she was quite happy for him to use our bases for military incursions.

[ewerk 26792]

Thatcher unbelievably overdemonized.

 

Like Stevie said, if she hadn't crushed the unions, we'd be flocking to Poland in rags begging for medial jobs over there.

 

Complete and utter bollocks.

 

How so? It was the power of the unions and their short-termism that ended up bringing Callaghan down and was causing huge levels of inflation. Taking on the unions and reducing their power was one of the best things Thatcher did during her premiership.

[Sima 0]

Love the "smash the system" attitude that scoffs at any government exercising their muscle over the general population.

 

It is for your own good at times, you know.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3277]

Thatcher unbelievably overdemonized.

 

Like Stevie said, if she hadn't crushed the unions, we'd be flocking to Poland in rags begging for medial jobs over there.

 

Complete and utter bollocks.

 

How so? It was the power of the unions and their short-termism that ended up bringing Callaghan down and was causing huge levels of inflation. Taking on the unions and reducing their power was one of the best things Thatcher did during her premiership.

 

Winter of miscontent 1979 miners strike 1984 Nothing really between. After This it took over a decade for workers to achiev a semblance of rights at work. All she wanted to do was give her friends free reign to make a huge profit and treat workers however they wished with impunity. The unions would have become less powerful if workers had better indiidual rights without the need to join a union. it is down to this lack of comparity that the unions flourished to end practices which for example resulted in deaths at work in many places.

[Fop 1]

Good or bad, we could have done with her strong leadership in recent years rather than become the yank/euro puppet we have.

 

There was no bigger yank puppet than thatcher.

 

Thatcher did many things wrong, but if anyone was the poodle in the UK/US relationship with her and Reagan, it was Reagan (she got him to back down over several major things and led him like a bull with a nose ring on several others).

 

Unlike Blair with Bush, who wasn't just his poodle, but was happy enough to slip into a gimp suit for Bush when asked (and is about to start lecturing on "how to be a religious nutter for profit" in the USA soon, Blair that is).

 

Name them? However she was quite happy for him to use our bases for military incursions.

 

Falklands for one where she convinced Reagan to go against every US advisor and US policy maker in the end, but there were several others as well.

 

Where as your example of "allowing" Reagan were likely policies she agreed on in the first place.

 

As I said Blair is a perfect example of a US poodle or gimp (and maybe now with his religious nutterdom coming out into the public domain we maybe see why), but Thatcher whatever else you can accuser her of (and there are many things) was not, she probably exercised more control over US policy that anyone but a serving President ever has.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3277]

Good or bad, we could have done with her strong leadership in recent years rather than become the yank/euro puppet we have.

 

There was no bigger yank puppet than thatcher.

 

Thatcher did many things wrong, but if anyone was the poodle in the UK/US relationship with her and Reagan, it was Reagan (she got him to back down over several major things and led him like a bull with a nose ring on several others).

 

Unlike Blair with Bush, who wasn't just his poodle, but was happy enough to slip into a gimp suit for Bush when asked (and is about to start lecturing on "how to be a religious nutter for profit" in the USA soon, Blair that is).

 

Name them? However she was quite happy for him to use our bases for military incursions.

 

Falklands for one where she convinced Reagan to go against every US advisor and US policy maker in the end, but there were several others as well.

 

Where as your example of "allowing" Reagan were likely policies she agreed on in the first place.

 

As I said Blair is a perfect example of a US poodle or gimp (and maybe now with his religious nutterdom coming out into the public domain we maybe see why), but Thatcher whatever else you can accuser her of (and there are many things) was not, she probably exercised more control over US policy that anyone but a serving President ever has.

Blair catholic. Bush WASP.

[ewerk 26792]

Thatcher unbelievably overdemonized.

 

Like Stevie said, if she hadn't crushed the unions, we'd be flocking to Poland in rags begging for medial jobs over there.

 

Complete and utter bollocks.

 

How so? It was the power of the unions and their short-termism that ended up bringing Callaghan down and was causing huge levels of inflation. Taking on the unions and reducing their power was one of the best things Thatcher did during her premiership.

 

Winter of miscontent 1979 miners strike 1984 Nothing really between. After This it took over a decade for workers to achiev a semblance of rights at work. All she wanted to do was give her friends free reign to make a huge profit and treat workers however they wished with impunity. The unions would have become less powerful if workers had better indiidual rights without the need to join a union. it is down to this lack of comparity that the unions flourished to end practices which for example resulted in deaths at work in many places.

 

Throughout the 70's and early 80's the unions were constantly striking at the drop of a hat and disrupting every day life. The problem isn't with unions and their fight for workers rights in itself, it was the fact that the unions and those running them had kept trying to extend their power to the point where they wanted to dictate government policy, that was going too far and due to Labour's links with the unions they weren't in a position to adequately combat this.

 

While I'm certainly not Thatcher's biggest fan by any means she did what had to be done in the short-term for the longer term benefits, we were the sick man of Europe before she came along and her policies sowed the seeds for future prosperity.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3277]

Good or bad, we could have done with her strong leadership in recent years rather than become the yank/euro puppet we have.

 

There was no bigger yank puppet than thatcher.

 

Thatcher did many things wrong, but if anyone was the poodle in the UK/US relationship with her and Reagan, it was Reagan (she got him to back down over several major things and led him like a bull with a nose ring on several others).

 

Unlike Blair with Bush, who wasn't just his poodle, but was happy enough to slip into a gimp suit for Bush when asked (and is about to start lecturing on "how to be a religious nutter for profit" in the USA soon, Blair that is).

 

Name them? However she was quite happy for him to use our bases for military incursions.

 

Falklands for one where she convinced Reagan to go against every US advisor and US policy maker in the end, but there were several others as well.

 

Where as your example of "allowing" Reagan were likely policies she agreed on in the first place.

 

As I said Blair is a perfect example of a US poodle or gimp (and maybe now with his religious nutterdom coming out into the public domain we maybe see why), but Thatcher whatever else you can accuser her of (and there are many things) was not, she probably exercised more control over US policy that anyone but a serving President ever has.

 

To do what???

Edited March 8, 2008 by Kevin Carr's Gloves

[Fop 1]

Good or bad, we could have done with her strong leadership in recent years rather than become the yank/euro puppet we have.

 

There was no bigger yank puppet than thatcher.

 

Thatcher did many things wrong, but if anyone was the poodle in the UK/US relationship with her and Reagan, it was Reagan (she got him to back down over several major things and led him like a bull with a nose ring on several others).

 

Unlike Blair with Bush, who wasn't just his poodle, but was happy enough to slip into a gimp suit for Bush when asked (and is about to start lecturing on "how to be a religious nutter for profit" in the USA soon, Blair that is).

 

Name them? However she was quite happy for him to use our bases for military incursions.

 

Falklands for one where she convinced Reagan to go against every US advisor and US policy maker in the end, but there were several others as well.

 

Where as your example of "allowing" Reagan were likely policies she agreed on in the first place.

 

As I said Blair is a perfect example of a US poodle or gimp (and maybe now with his religious nutterdom coming out into the public domain we maybe see why), but Thatcher whatever else you can accuser her of (and there are many things) was not, she probably exercised more control over US policy that anyone but a serving President ever has.

Blair catholic. Bush WASP.

 

And both religious nutters (just one open about it in power and one much more secretive about it in power).

[Kid Dynamite 6082]

Thatcher is the reason places like ashington, blyth, sacriston, pelton etc are cuntsvilles.

 

If there was one person on this board I wouldnt have pegged as a thatcherite its stevie mind!!!

[Fop 1]

Good or bad, we could have done with her strong leadership in recent years rather than become the yank/euro puppet we have.

 

There was no bigger yank puppet than thatcher.

 

Thatcher did many things wrong, but if anyone was the poodle in the UK/US relationship with her and Reagan, it was Reagan (she got him to back down over several major things and led him like a bull with a nose ring on several others).

 

Unlike Blair with Bush, who wasn't just his poodle, but was happy enough to slip into a gimp suit for Bush when asked (and is about to start lecturing on "how to be a religious nutter for profit" in the USA soon, Blair that is).

 

Name them? However she was quite happy for him to use our bases for military incursions.

 

Falklands for one where she convinced Reagan to go against every US advisor and US policy maker in the end, but there were several others as well.

 

Where as your example of "allowing" Reagan were likely policies she agreed on in the first place.

 

As I said Blair is a perfect example of a US poodle or gimp (and maybe now with his religious nutterdom coming out into the public domain we maybe see why), but Thatcher whatever else you can accuser her of (and there are many things) was not, she probably exercised more control over US policy that anyone but a serving President ever has.

 

To do what???

 

I suggest you read up on the whole Falklands conflict (it being a pretty integral part of Thatchers time it's pretty much required reading), but basically much US policy, politicians and public opinion were largely against helping the UK in any way (in fact they were broadly pretty much for hindering it).

 

Not to mention that even after UK forces had landed and were clearly winning Reagan tried to get Thatcher allow the Argentinians to withdraw (to save face, fearing the collapse of the Junta and therefore US interest in Argentina) and a 3rd party "peacekeeping" force to be deploy, to which Thatcher gave him a verbal mauling over (the fabled "handbagging" I guess ) and told him no way.

 

As I said if anything Reagan was much more Thatchers poodle than she ever was his, and again as I said she probably exercised more control over US policy than any one person but a serving President ever has.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Fop

[Sima 0]

Thatcher is the reason places like ashington, blyth, sacriston, pelton etc are cuntsvilles.

 

If there was one person on this board I wouldnt have pegged as a thatcherite its stevie mind!!!

 

Absolutely no middleground then?

[DanTheMan 0]

Some nice balanced views in this thread then! How come Thatcher never gets afforded the balanced critique of her leadership that every other leader gets on here? I'm no fan of her, but would not be pig-headed enough to deny that she did serve to do some positive things, such as reducing union power and City deregulation.

[NJS 4002]

If the Unions ruled Britain why did they have to strike in 79? Surely they would have been able to just ring up Callaghan and demand 20% rises which he would have given them on the spot?

 

If Thatcher had been in power then they would have been refused the pay rise and gone on strike....hmm.

 

 

Was destroying huge drafts of industry without any plan for the people and communities destroyed a sensible approach of a good leader or the actions of a class war practicing megalomaniac who only cared for herself and hers?

[NJS 4002]

Some nice balanced views in this thread then! How come Thatcher never gets afforded the balanced critique of her leadership that every other leader gets on here? I'm no fan of her, but would not be pig-headed enough to deny that she did serve to do some positive things, such as reducing union power and City deregulation.

 

The first thing she did on getting into power was remove exchange controls and watch £65bn (a lot of mony then) leave the UK in a single day. This was a major contribution to the recession she needed. What a patriot.

 

 

Anyone who lived in the North East knows how "balanced" her approach was to it - it was a scorched earth policy which blights it to this day.

 

 

Also Cameron said she "transformed the country" - she did - she destroyed any sense of greater good and replaced it with the "Me, Myself, Now" attitude which pervades society from the non-dom tax evaders all the way down the charver scum on street corners who were raised by her "children".

 

Everyone here know my views on religion but I'd love hell to exist just for her.

[Jusoda Kid 1]

Thatcher is the reason places like ashington, blyth, sacriston, pelton etc are cuntsvilles.

 

If there was one person on this board I wouldnt have pegged as a thatcherite its stevie mind!!!

 

Maybe he's a silver spooner portraying himself as a working class hero

[Jusoda Kid 1]

Don't know enough about her reign to comment, just know everyone my parents age around here seems to despise her, so carry on lads and lasses I'm finding this very educational.

[Tooj 17]

Don't know enough about her reign to comment, just know everyone my parents age around here seems to despise her, so carry on lads and lasses I'm finding this very educational.

Ditto.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3277]

Good or bad, we could have done with her strong leadership in recent years rather than become the yank/euro puppet we have.

 

There was no bigger yank puppet than thatcher.

 

Thatcher did many things wrong, but if anyone was the poodle in the UK/US relationship with her and Reagan, it was Reagan (she got him to back down over several major things and led him like a bull with a nose ring on several others).

 

Unlike Blair with Bush, who wasn't just his poodle, but was happy enough to slip into a gimp suit for Bush when asked (and is about to start lecturing on "how to be a religious nutter for profit" in the USA soon, Blair that is).

 

Name them? However she was quite happy for him to use our bases for military incursions.

 

Falklands for one where she convinced Reagan to go against every US advisor and US policy maker in the end, but there were several others as well.

 

Where as your example of "allowing" Reagan were likely policies she agreed on in the first place.

 

As I said Blair is a perfect example of a US poodle or gimp (and maybe now with his religious nutterdom coming out into the public domain we maybe see why), but Thatcher whatever else you can accuser her of (and there are many things) was not, she probably exercised more control over US policy that anyone but a serving President ever has.

 

To do what???

 

I suggest you read up on the whole Falklands conflict (it being a pretty integral part of Thatchers time it's pretty much required reading), but basically much US policy, politicians and public opinion were largely against helping the UK in any way (in fact they were broadly pretty much for hindering it).

 

Not to mention that even after UK forces had landed and were clearly winning Reagan tried to get Thatcher allow the Argentinians to withdraw (to save face, fearing the collapse of the Junta and therefore US interest in Argentina) and a 3rd party "peacekeeping" force to be deploy, to which Thatcher gave him a verbal mauling over (the fabled "handbagging" I guess ) and told him no way.

 

As I said if anything Reagan was much more Thatchers poodle than she ever was his, and again as I said she probably exercised more control over US policy than any one person but a serving President ever has.

 

Which books? What help??

Edited March 8, 2008 by Kevin Carr's Gloves

[Kid Dynamite 6082]

Don't know enough about her reign to comment, just know everyone my parents age around here seems to despise her, so carry on lads and lasses I'm finding this very educational.

 

Well all my dads family were miners hence his hatred for her. He saves a days holiday every year just in case she dies.

[ewerk 26792]

If the Unions ruled Britain why did they have to strike in 79? Surely they would have been able to just ring up Callaghan and demand 20% rises which he would have given them on the spot?

 

If Thatcher had been in power then they would have been refused the pay rise and gone on strike....hmm.

 

A culture of striking had been developing in Britain prior to the winter of discontent, this was allowed to happen because of the powers given to the unions, Thatcher didn't remove the right to strike for many trades but made it a slower and more regulated process. If Thatcher had've been in power I don't think the situation would have got to the point that it did in 1979, whatever way you look at it the unions were bad for the British economy and needed taking down a peg or two.

[Kid Dynamite 6082]

Thats one way to look at it. Another would be that the unions posed too much of a threat so she shafted them. Thats known as a dictatorship.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3277]

If the Unions ruled Britain why did they have to strike in 79? Surely they would have been able to just ring up Callaghan and demand 20% rises which he would have given them on the spot?

 

If Thatcher had been in power then they would have been refused the pay rise and gone on strike....hmm.

 

A culture of striking had been developing in Britain prior to the winter of discontent, this was allowed to happen because of the powers given to the unions, Thatcher didn't remove the right to strike for many trades but made it a slower and more regulated process. If Thatcher had've been in power I don't think the situation would have got to the point that it did in 1979, whatever way you look at it the unions were bad for the British economy and needed taking down a peg or two.

I couldn't disagree more. I would say what has always been bad for the british economy has been the way it has been run. And Thatcher was one of the worst. Millions of unemployed in Britain speaks volumes for a conservative government. I remember a Chancellor saying that High unemloyment was an acceptable price to pay for low inflation which they didn't always manage anyway. As per normal the right wing revisionists look at the relatively small amount of good done over the misery poured onto Britain during her premiership. Remember she was lower in the polls than a snakes arse in a ditch before she goaded Argentina into invading the Falklands.

[Kid Dynamite 6082]

Speaking of the falklands, was it prince andrew who was fighting on the front line over there?

 

Didnt get half as much arse licking from the papers for being 'a hero'

[Jusoda Kid 1]

Don't know enough about her reign to comment, just know everyone my parents age around here seems to despise her, so carry on lads and lasses I'm finding this very educational.

 

Well all my dads family were miners hence his hatred for her. He saves a days holiday every year just in case she dies.

 

Respect