Newcastle United Vs Sunderland

[Tom 13915]

Journalists probably have a Key Word list when talking about football and who the words apply to

 

Like Ramos is either a genius or tactically hopeless, one week to the next

[Fop 1]

Yes, and he's getting criticised because they didn't work. Anything else you need help with there?

... but they didnt manage 0-1. Kind of a completely moot point.

 

You're both actually PROVING my point so....

The point that people use hindsight to appraise how tactics went in a match? I wouldn't argue there although I'm not sure it was a point that needed making.

When applied to Keegan it certainly does. Beat Chelsea 3-0 and at best he'll "refreshingly attack minded", lose 0-3 and he'll be lambasted and his successes almost used against him with "Keegan finally caught out by attacking naivety" or some such.

 

And that even potentially the "best" tactic is no saviour from criticism, only winning is (and even then not always).

[Tom 13915]

Strangely enough our defending hasn't been too bad lately.

 

I think Beye raises the game, and Feye.

[Guest alex]

Yes, and he's getting criticised because they didn't work. Anything else you need help with there?

... but they didnt manage 0-1. Kind of a completely moot point.

 

You're both actually PROVING my point so....

The point that people use hindsight to appraise how tactics went in a match? I wouldn't argue there although I'm not sure it was a point that needed making.

When applied to Keegan it certainly does. Beat Chelsea 3-0 and at best he'll "refreshingly attack minded", lose 0-3 and he'll be lambasted and his successes almost used against him with "Keegan finally caught out by attacking naivety" or some such.

 

And that even potentially the "best" tactic is no saviour from criticism, only winning is (and even then not always).

I thought you made the point in reference to Roy Keane though. Kudos on the use of foresight to predict potential future applications of hindsight btw.

[Fop 1]

Yes, and he's getting criticised because they didn't work. Anything else you need help with there?

... but they didnt manage 0-1. Kind of a completely moot point.

 

You're both actually PROVING my point so....

The point that people use hindsight to appraise how tactics went in a match? I wouldn't argue there although I'm not sure it was a point that needed making.

When applied to Keegan it certainly does. Beat Chelsea 3-0 and at best he'll "refreshingly attack minded", lose 0-3 and he'll be lambasted and his successes almost used against him with "Keegan finally caught out by attacking naivety" or some such.

 

And that even potentially the "best" tactic is no saviour from criticism, only winning is (and even then not always).

I thought you made the point in reference to Roy Keane though. Kudos on the use of foresight to predict potential future applications of hindsight btw.

It's the same for all managers, at least until they have built up a reputation which can help deflect it (no one is likely to utterly slate Ferguson or Mourinho for being tactically naive, even if they have been), but that reputation likely isn't built completely (or in some cases really at all) upon what it's mooted to be (Allerdyce for example, or frankly Keegan in different respects).

 

 

Strangely enough our defending hasn't been too bad lately.

 

I think Beye raises the game, and Feye.

 

Yup, still the same old chestnuts brought out there about us though. Could go 3 seasons with the best defensive record in the league and 1 bad match would likely still have the same stuff being said.

[Tom 13915]

Yeh good point.

 

And stop arguing it's getting tedious

[Guest alex]

I'm lost as to what point you're actually making now. I'm sure you're right though.

[Fop 1]

I'm lost as to what point you're actually making now. I'm sure you're right though.

[Tom 13915]

Total Thread killer

[Happy Face 29]

Yup, still the same old chestnuts brought out there about us though. Could go 3 seasons with the best defensive record in the league and 1 bad match would likely still have the same stuff being said.

 

 

That old chestnut is bang on though, we'll probably have conceded 60 by the end of the season, Watford didn't even concede that many last year when they came last.

 

When we've kept more than 2 clean sheets from the 20 games against top half opposition, we can complain the defence are getting a bad rap.

 

...though that would be using hindsight, so we'll be stuck between a rock and a hard place I guess.

[Happy Face 29]

I'm lost as to what point you're actually making now. I'm sure you're right though.

 

 

Fop's taken wummery up a notch into meta-arguments. It doesn't matter what happened because something else could have happened, which renders a fact based reading of the situation worthless.

[Fop 1]

Yup, still the same old chestnuts brought out there about us though. Could go 3 seasons with the best defensive record in the league and 1 bad match would likely still have the same stuff being said.

 

 

That old chestnut is bang on though, we'll probably have conceded 60 by the end of the season, Watford didn't even concede that many last year when they came last.

 

When we've kept more than 2 clean sheets from the 20 games against top half opposition, we can complain the defence are getting a bad rap.

 

...though that would be using hindsight, so we'll be stuck between a rock and a hard place I guess.

 

And the seasons where we DID actually have very good defensive records and still got the same old same old? What would that be then?

[Fop 1]

I'm lost as to what point you're actually making now. I'm sure you're right though.

 

 

Fop's taken wummery up a notch into meta-arguments. It doesn't matter what happened because something else could have happened, which renders a fact based reading of the situation worthless.

 

It has happened, and will happen again. You've got to pay some attention though, so it's no surprise it has passed you by completely.

[Happy Face 29]

Yup, still the same old chestnuts brought out there about us though. Could go 3 seasons with the best defensive record in the league and 1 bad match would likely still have the same stuff being said.

 

 

That old chestnut is bang on though, we'll probably have conceded 60 by the end of the season, Watford didn't even concede that many last year when they came last.

 

When we've kept more than 2 clean sheets from the 20 games against top half opposition, we can complain the defence are getting a bad rap.

 

...though that would be using hindsight, so we'll be stuck between a rock and a hard place I guess.

 

And the seasons where we DID actually have very good defensive records and still got the same old same old? What would that be then?

 

That would be a bad rap. I've embiggened where I said that to make the point more cromulent.

[Fop 1]

Yup, still the same old chestnuts brought out there about us though. Could go 3 seasons with the best defensive record in the league and 1 bad match would likely still have the same stuff being said.

 

 

That old chestnut is bang on though, we'll probably have conceded 60 by the end of the season, Watford didn't even concede that many last year when they came last.

 

When we've kept more than 2 clean sheets from the 20 games against top half opposition, we can complain the defence are getting a bad rap.

 

...though that would be using hindsight, so we'll be stuck between a rock and a hard place I guess.

 

And the seasons where we DID actually have very good defensive records and still got the same old same old? What would that be then?

 

That would be a bad rap. I've embiggened where I said that to make the point more cromulent.

 

Which is part of my point. What was yours again?

[Happy Face 29]

I'm lost as to what point you're actually making now. I'm sure you're right though.

 

 

Fop's taken wummery up a notch into meta-arguments. It doesn't matter what happened because something else could have happened, which renders a fact based reading of the situation worthless.

 

It has happened, and will happen again. You've got to pay some attention though, so it's no surprise it has passed you by completely.

 

I've seen many instances of people getting praised when their tactics work and blasted when they fail cheers.....that is what you're complaining about, right?

[Fop 1]

I'm lost as to what point you're actually making now. I'm sure you're right though.

 

 

Fop's taken wummery up a notch into meta-arguments. It doesn't matter what happened because something else could have happened, which renders a fact based reading of the situation worthless.

 

It has happened, and will happen again. You've got to pay some attention though, so it's no surprise it has passed you by completely.

 

I've seen many instances of people getting praised when their tactics work and blasted when they fail cheers.....that is what you're complaining about, right?

 

Not as such no. Pay attention.

[Happy Face 29]

Yup, still the same old chestnuts brought out there about us though. Could go 3 seasons with the best defensive record in the league and 1 bad match would likely still have the same stuff being said.

 

 

That old chestnut is bang on though, we'll probably have conceded 60 by the end of the season, Watford didn't even concede that many last year when they came last.

 

When we've kept more than 2 clean sheets from the 20 games against top half opposition, we can complain the defence are getting a bad rap.

 

...though that would be using hindsight, so we'll be stuck between a rock and a hard place I guess.

 

And the seasons where we DID actually have very good defensive records and still got the same old same old? What would that be then?

 

That would be a bad rap. I've embiggened where I said that to make the point more cromulent.

 

Which is part of my point. What was yours again?

 

That we haven't had a bad rap this season.

 

I thought your point was the opposite, we've been terrible defensively all year, but a few clean sheets against weaker opposition (Portsmouth aside) and you want every pundit to be praising our class at the back.

[Fop 1]

I'm lost as to what point you're actually making now. I'm sure you're right though.

 

 

Fop's taken wummery up a notch into meta-arguments. It doesn't matter what happened because something else could have happened, which renders a fact based reading of the situation worthless.

 

It has happened, and will happen again. You've got to pay some attention though, so it's no surprise it has passed you by completely.

 

I've seen many instances of people getting praised when their tactics work and blasted when they fail cheers.....that is what you're complaining about, right?

 

Not as such no. Pay attention.

 

 

Although it doesn't really matter as I could be arguing white is white and all the usual suspects would be lining up to argue that white was black (and probably calling me racist to boot as well).

[Happy Face 29]

I'm lost as to what point you're actually making now. I'm sure you're right though.

 

 

Fop's taken wummery up a notch into meta-arguments. It doesn't matter what happened because something else could have happened, which renders a fact based reading of the situation worthless.

 

It has happened, and will happen again. You've got to pay some attention though, so it's no surprise it has passed you by completely.

 

I've seen many instances of people getting praised when their tactics work and blasted when they fail cheers.....that is what you're complaining about, right?

 

Not as such no. Pay attention.

 

 

Although it doesn't really matter as I could be arguing white is white and all the usual suspects would be lining up to argue that white was black (and probably calling me racist to boot as well).

 

I thought you were as good as arguing white was black. Unless you agree Keane got his tactics wrong yesterday?

[Fop 1]

That we haven't had a bad rap this season.

 

I thought your point was the opposite, we've been terrible defensively all year, but a few clean sheets against weaker opposition (Portsmouth aside) and you want every pundit to be praising our class at the back.

 

Again absolutely nothing to do with what I've said.

 

We've been terrible for most of the season full stop (in every sense).

 

But that's got little to do with our "established" reputation, or indeed the reason for your "argument".

[Fop 1]

I'm lost as to what point you're actually making now. I'm sure you're right though.

 

 

Fop's taken wummery up a notch into meta-arguments. It doesn't matter what happened because something else could have happened, which renders a fact based reading of the situation worthless.

 

It has happened, and will happen again. You've got to pay some attention though, so it's no surprise it has passed you by completely.

 

I've seen many instances of people getting praised when their tactics work and blasted when they fail cheers.....that is what you're complaining about, right?

 

Not as such no. Pay attention.

 

 

Although it doesn't really matter as I could be arguing white is white and all the usual suspects would be lining up to argue that white was black (and probably calling me racist to boot as well).

 

I thought you were as good as arguing white was black. Unless you agree Keane got his tactics wrong yesterday?

 

Whatever tactics Keane employed would be "wrong" with that result.

 

But as I said that has nothing to do with the usual suspects here (which is an interesting diversion in itself - I may start a thread on world peace just to see the usual suspects claim it is wrong).

[Craig 6321]

Fop man stop boring the shit out of people - you're killing the threads...

[Happy Face 29]

That we haven't had a bad rap this season.

 

I thought your point was the opposite, we've been terrible defensively all year, but a few clean sheets against weaker opposition (Portsmouth aside) and you want every pundit to be praising our class at the back.

 

Again absolutely nothing to do with what I've said.

 

We've been terrible for most of the season full stop (in every sense).

 

But that's got little to do with our "established" reputation, or indeed the reason for your "argument".

 

It doesn't matter what you say. My blinkered reliance on the received wisdom tells me that you're an argumentative WUM. 3 years of insightful comments won't change that I'm afraid.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

McShane is the worst player I've seen up here since Fumaca

I knew we'd win as soon as I heard he was playing. He looked terrified and was an accident waiting to happen for the first twenty odd minutes. Massively out of his depth and he knew it, (bit like Ramage used to look at times last season) I would almost have felt sorry for him if he played for anyone else.