The BBQ Thread

[acrossthepond 872]

A sun dog or sundog (scientific name parhelion, plural parhelia, i.e. "beside the sun") is a common bright circular spot on a solar halo. It is an atmospheric optical phenomenon primarily associated with the reflection or refraction of sunlight by small ice crystals making up cirrus or cirrostratus clouds. Often, two or more sundogs can be seen on opposite sides of the sun simultaneously.

 

Physical characteristics

Sundogs typically, but not exclusively, appear when the sun is low, e.g. at sunrise and sunset, and the atmosphere is filled with ice crystals forming cirrus clouds, but diamond dust and ice fog can also produce them. They are often bright white patches of light looking much like the sun or a comet, and occasionally are confused with those phenomena. Sometimes they exhibit a spectrum of colours, ranging from red closest to the sun to a pale bluish tail stretching away from the sun. White sundogs are caused by light reflected off of atmospheric ice crystals, while colored sundogs are caused by light refracted through them.

 

The ice crystals causing atmospheric phenomenon are shaped as hexagonal prisms (ice Ih, e.g. with a hexagonal top and bottom and six rectangular sides). Some of these crystals are elongated, some are flat; the latter causing crisp and bright sundogs if evenly oriented with their hexagonal ends aligned horizontally, while the former produces other atmospheric phenomenon, such as parhelic circles, 22° halos, circumzenithal arcs, upper tangent arcs, and lower tangent arcs. A mixture of various crystals with different alignments produces several of these phenomena at the same time.

 

When sunlight passes through the sides of a flat crystal, both the angle of the sun rays and the orientation of the crystals affects the shape and colour of the sundogs. Misaligned or wobbling crystals produce colourful and elongated sundogs, while light passing through the crystal in non-optimal deviation angles (up to 50°) produces the "tail" of the sundog stretching away from the sun. As refraction is dependent of wavelength, the sundogs tend to have red inner edges while the colours farther from the sun tend to be more bluish-white as colours increasingly overlap.

 

When the sun is low, the two sundogs are located on the circle of the 22° halo. As the sun rises, the sundogs slowly move along the parhelic circle away from the sun, finally, to vanish as the sun reaches 61° over the horizon (e.g. the sundogs move from the 22° halo to the circumscribed halo).

 

On Earth, the first planet (counting from the sun) with significant amounts of ice crystal-carrying clouds, the pair of sundogs flanking the sun are aligned with the horizon. On other planets and moons where water and ice are less prevalent, however, various crystal structures produce different halos. On the giant gas planets—Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune—other crystals form the clouds of ammonia, methane, and other substances that can produce halos with four or more sundogs.

 

In remote stretches of western Texas, sundog refers colloquially to a segment of a common rainbow.

 

There are records among the writings of the Ancient Egyptians that discuss two suns in the sky, and one that discusses the sun setting in the east, or moving backward.

 

Aristotle (Meteorology III.2, 372a14) notes that "two mock suns rose with the sun and followed it all through the day until sunset." He says that "mock suns" are always to the side, never above or below, most commonly at sunrise or sunset, more rarely in the middle of the day.

 

A passage in Cicero's On the Republic (54-51 BC) is one of many by Greek and Roman authors who refer to sundogs and similar phenomena:

 

Be it so, said Tubero; and since you invite me to discussion, and present the opportunity, let us first examine, before any one else arrives, what can be the nature of the parhelion, or double sun, which was mentioned in the senate. Those that affirm they witnessed this prodigy are neither few nor unworthy of credit, so that there is more reason for investigation than incredulity.

 

Jakob Hutter

 

Possibly the earliest clear description of a sun dog is by Jakob Hutter, who wrote in his Brotherly Faithfulness: Epistles from a Time of Persecution:

 

My beloved children, I want to tell you that on the day after the departure of our brothers Kuntz and Michel, on a Friday, we saw three suns in the sky for a good long time, about an hour, as well as two rainbows. These had their backs turned toward each other, almost touching in the middle, and their ends pointed away from each other. And this I, Jakob, saw with my own eyes, and many brothers and sisters saw it with me. After a while the two suns and rainbows disappeared, and only the one sun remained. Even though the other two suns were not as bright as the one, they were clearly visible. I feel this was no small miracle . . . .

 

The observation most likely occurred in Auspitz (Hustopeče), Moravia in very late October or very early November of 1533. The original was written in German and is from a letter originally sent in November 1533 from Auspitz in Moravia to the Adige Valley in Tirol. The Kuntz Maurer and Michel Schuster mentioned in the letter left Jakob Hutter on the Thursday after the feast day of Simon and Jude, which is October 28. (This quote is also referenced by Fred Schaaf on page 94 of the November 1997 and December 1997 issues of Sky and Telescope.)

 

While mostly known and often quoted for being the oldest colour depiction of the city of Stockholm, Vädersolstavlan (Swedish; "The Sundog Painting", literally "The Weather Sun Painting") is arguably also one of the oldest known depictions of a sun dog. For two hours in the morning of April 20, 1535, the skies over the city were filled with white circles and arcs crossing the sky, while additional suns appeared around the sun. The phenomenon quickly resulted in rumours of an omen of God's forthcoming revenge on King Gustav Vasa (1496-1560) for having introduced Protestantism during the 1520s and for being heavy-handed with his enemies allied with the Danish king.

 

Hoping to end speculations, the Chancellor and Lutheran scholar Olaus Petri (1493-1552) ordered a painting to be produced documenting the event. When confronted with the painting, the king, however, interpreted it as a conspiracy - the real sun of course being himself threatened by competing fake suns, one being Olaus Petri and the other the clergyman and scholar Laurentius Andreae (1470-1552), both thus accused of treachery, but eventually escaping capital punishment. The original painting is lost, but a copy from the 1630s survives and still can be seen in the church Storkyrkan in central Stockholm.

 

Nuremberg, Germany in 1561

 

On April 14, 1561, the skies over Nuremberg, Germany were filled with a multitude of celestial objects that were observed by many people in the city. The objects were depicted five years later in the 1566 woodcut by Hans Glaser of the "1561 Nuremberg event", that is displayed to the right. Several of the images resemble the types of phenomenon that occur as parhelia.

 

In her history Shipwreck at the Bottom of the World: The Extraordinary True Story of Shackleton and the Endurance, telling the story of Endurance's ill-fated polar expedition in 1912, Jennifer Armstrong writes:

 

. . . All around them, too, were signs that the Antarctic winter was fast approaching: there were now twelve hours of darkness, and during the daylight hours petrels and terns fled toward the north. Skuas kept up a screeching clamor, and penguins on the move honked and brayed from the ice for miles around. Killer whales cruised the open leads, blowing spouts of icy spray. The tricks of the Antarctic atmosphere brought mock suns and green sunsets, and showers of jewel-colored ice crystals.

 

In fiction

 

A reference to 'parhelia' occurs in the Introduction to Vladimir Nabokov's 1962 novel Pale Fire:

 

The short (166) Canto One, with all those amusing birds and parhelia, occupies thirteen cards.

 

In the fifth novel of the Aubrey–Maturin series, Desolation Island, Patrick O'Brian writes:

 

A visit to the cabin showed him the glass lower still: sickeningly low. And back on the poop he saw that he was by no means the only one to have noticed the mounting sea – an oddly disturbed sea, as if moved by some not very distant force; white water too, and a strange green colour in the curl of the waves and in the water slipping by. He glanced north-west, and there the sun, though shining still, had a halo, with sun-dogs on either side. Ahead, the aurora had gained in strength: streamers of an unearthly splendour.

 

In her popular historical novel about Richard III of England, The Sunne in Splendour, Sharon Kay Penman writes:

 

Hastings laughed, too, and shook his head. "Men do make their luck, Lady Margaret, and never have I seen that better proven than at Mortimer's Cross. For ere the battle, there appeared a most fearsome and strange sight in the sky." He paused. "Three suns did we see over us, shining full clear."

 

In a footnote it is clarified: "Phenomenon known as a parhelion, generally caused by the formation of ice crystals in the upper air."

 

Two pages later, again mentioning the English king Edward IV, she adds: "Many, she saw, flaunted streaming sun emblems to denote her son's triumph under the triple suns at Mortimer's Cross."

 

Sundogs appear in the film The Deer Hunter. At the beginning of the film, as the men are leaving work, they see the phenomenon. Robert De Niro's character describes it as an 'old Indian thing' and "A blessing on the hunter sent by the great wolf to his children".

 

The horror fiction writer Stephen King has a novella called The Sun Dog.

 

Sun dogs are referenced metaphorically in Rush's 1989 classic hit "Chain Lightning" on the album Presto. Neil Peart has been quoted as saying that they are "an inspiration for his lyrics."

 

The band Of Montreal used the image in the lyrics to "The Past Is a Grotesque Animal" on the 2007 album Hissing Fauna, Are You the Destroyer?

 

I've played the unraveler, the parhelion

But even Apocalypse is fleeting

There's no death, no ugly world

 

The British neofolk band Death in June put out an EP called "Sun dogs" in 1994.

 

Jack London has a short story called The Sun Dog Trail.

 

One of Robert Rauschenberg's early experiments in 1962 employing the silk-screen process to reuse previously published images in "Combine Paintings" is titled "Sun Dog".

[peasepud 59]

68 posts in this thread, nearly half of them from Fop. I guess Fop is obsessed with himself a bit too much tbh.

 

This post is dedicated to Fop.

 

The funny thing is that this thread will make absolutely no sense to Ketsbaia as he cant see half of it

[Isegrim 9737]

68 posts in this thread, nearly half of them from Fop. I guess Fop is obsessed with himself a bit too much tbh.

 

This post is dedicated to Fop.

 

I'm quite amused is all. Amused and amazed at quite how right I was/am.

 

 

It's also quite interesting in the amount of psychological denial (in someone like yourself) that goes into claiming I'm obsessed with a thread this is all to do with "me", and clearly intended to set up the "villain".

Yet blissfully ignores the sheer level of mentalist obsession it takes for someone like Ketsbaia to make a thread like this in the first place, never mind of the obsessional mob mentality of the usual suspects/ghoulish attempt at "mobbing" that so predictably ensued and maintains this.

 

It's frankly fascinating.

See, all I did in the beginning was posting a gardening advice. Something I've been doing here for years in various threads that are or turning into total humbug. So it had absolutely nothing to do with you as a person. Still you call me a "usual suspect" and speak of some kind of "psychological denial" (appropriate use of quotation marks by the way). I'll leave you with your obsession with yourself and your believe that you are a villain.

[Park Life 71]

68 posts in this thread, nearly half of them from Fop. I guess Fop is obsessed with himself a bit too much tbh.

 

This post is dedicated to Fop.

 

I'm quite amused is all. Amused and amazed at quite how right I was/am.

 

 

It's also quite interesting in the amount of psychological denial (in someone like yourself) that goes into claiming I'm obsessed with a thread this is all to do with "me", and clearly intended to set up the "villain".

Yet blissfully ignores the sheer level of mentalist obsession it takes for someone like Ketsbaia to make a thread like this in the first place, never mind of the obsessional mob mentality of the usual suspects/ghoulish attempt at "mobbing" that so predictably ensued and maintains this.

 

It's frankly fascinating.

See, all I did in the beginning was posting a gardening advice. Something I've been doing here for years in various threads that are or turning into total humbug. So it had absolutely nothing to do with you as a person. Still you call me a "usual suspect" and speak of some kind of "psychological denial" (appropriate use of quotation marks by the way). I'll leave you with your obsession with yourself and your believe that you are a villain.

 

Tbf to Ise he rarely partakes in the 'mob' approach.

[Guest Stevie]

In a sea of shit threads, I think this is the shittest. There are shit threads and shit threads. Like the famous "Baines" one. I was wrong held my hands up, duff information, but it went on and on, but at least there was a message behind it, this is just dull.

[Guest alex]

Up there with the 5-a-side thread anyway.

[Guest Stevie]

Up there with the 5-a-side thread anyway.

Yeah or the Canada thread, opening with pictures of cranes.

[Guest alex]

Up there with the 5-a-side thread anyway.

Yeah or the Canada thread, opening with pictures of cranes.

Not like you not to take a joke.

[Guest Stevie]

Up there with the 5-a-side thread anyway.

Yeah or the Canada thread, opening with pictures of cranes.

Not like you not to take a joke.

Where was the joke?

[Fop 1]

68 posts in this thread, nearly half of them from Fop. I guess Fop is obsessed with himself a bit too much tbh.

 

This post is dedicated to Fop.

 

The funny thing is that this thread will make absolutely no sense to Ketsbaia as he cant see half of it

 

He's clearly turned it off to see what's going on once already.

 

He'll likely do it long term in the end as this very thread really shows too.

[Fop 1]

See, all I did in the beginning was posting a gardening advice. Something I've been doing here for years in various threads that are or turning into total humbug. So it had absolutely nothing to do with you as a person. Still you call me a "usual suspect" and speak of some kind of "psychological denial" (appropriate use of quotation marks by the way). I'll leave you with your obsession with yourself and your believe that you are a villain.

 

Like I said the level of denial to say that I'm obsessed in a thread this all about "me", which designed and intended to set up the "villian" - there is no other reason to make a thread like this other wise (I'm not obsessed just enjoying being proved SO very right and it's frankly funny and fascinating ) .

 

And yet ignore the level of obsession required for someone to make a thread like this in the first place. Well done, it must take some doing.

[Fop 1]

Tbf to Ise he rarely partakes in the 'mob' approach.

 

Perhaps, he's still a "usual suspect" and the chances of him being able to resist this thread (especially without some self delusion) were 0.00000000%.

[Fop 1]

In a sea of shit threads, I think this is the shittest. There are shit threads and shit threads. Like the famous "Baines" one. I was wrong held my hands up, duff information, but it went on and on, but at least there was a message behind it, this is just dull.

 

Well there's absolutely NO point to starting a thread like this other than the reason I've already stated, and been proven right about countless times in here now.

 

 

Although for me it's frankly fascinating as I'm repeated proven both right and also get to see exactly how much many do need their "villains".

[Fop 1]

Up there with the 5-a-side thread anyway.

 

Ignoring the obsession it takes to even contemplate making a thread like this. (which is a LOT )

 

 

Without a "villain" (or several - as I've seen in my time here, people love them, or love to hate them.... but need them either way) things quickly become like this:

 

P1: "I'm having an apple for lunch"

P2: "Wow an apple I wish I had and apple"

P3: "I agree"

P4: "It's nice to have an apple for lunch"

P1: "Yes it is"

Fish: "Can I have an apple?"

etc. etc.

 

 

Although I see you're keenly avoiding answering my question, but even you must admit how right I am now, surely?

[manc-mag 1]

Up there with the 5-a-side thread anyway.

 

Ignoring the obsession it takes to even contemplate making a thread like this. (which is a LOT )

 

 

Without a "villain" (or several - as I've seen in my time here, people love them, or love to hate them.... but need them either way) things quickly become like this:

 

P1: "I'm having an apple for lunch"

P2: "Wow an apple I wish I had and apple"

P3: "I agree"

P4: "It's nice to have an apple for lunch"

P1: "Yes it is"

Fish: "Can I have an apple?"

etc. etc.

 

 

Although I see you're keenly avoiding answering my question, but even you must admit how right I am now, surely?

 

 

This sentence literally has everything.

[Park Life 71]

Oh the tango of life.

[Fop 1]

 

This sentence literally has everything.

 

Still quite obsessed with me I see.

[Fop 1]

Oh the tango of life.

Like I said earlier, all you need is the right fulcrum and they can't help but dance.

[manc-mag 1]

Fop, I imagine there are one of two explanations for the existence of this thread and the fact of people posting in it.

 

Firstly, people literally are actually obsessed with you, because you are some sort of 'villain' or secondly, there is a general consensus that you are a bit of a cockwipe and so people have become mildly irritated with you.

 

Obviously I know which one you'd rather believe it to be.

[Snake 0]

Fop = best poster on here. Fact

[Park Life 71]

Fop, I imagine there are one of two explanations for the existence of this thread and the fact of people posting in it.

 

Firstly, people literally are actually obsessed with you, because you are some sort of 'villain' or secondly, there is a general consensus that you are a bit of a cockwipe and so people have become mildly irritated with you.

 

Obviously I know which one you'd rather believe it to be.

 

In the history of the world the mob are nearly always wrong. Julius Caesar will testify to this.

[Fop 1]

Fop, I imagine there are one of two explanations for the existence of this thread and the fact of people posting in it.

 

Firstly, people literally are actually obsessed with you, because you are some sort of 'villain' or secondly, there is a general consensus that you are a bit of a cockwipe and so people have become mildly irritated with you.

 

Obviously I know which one you'd rather believe it to be.

 

 

Firstly you are clearly utterly obsessed with "me" (you cannot bring yourself to leave this thread alone, no matter how much you try - right again aren't I )

 

Secondly what you're suggesting is actually not two things, but both are exactly the same thing looked at from different angles.

 

 

The 4th post in this thread says everything you need to know about this thread the rest is just undeniable proof (further proof is probably that Alex won't answer ) that it is absolutely correct (as is the number of views and replies this frankly pointless thread is getting).

[The Fish 10750]

Fop, I imagine there are one of two explanations for the existence of this thread and the fact of people posting in it.

 

Firstly, people literally are actually obsessed with you, because you are some sort of 'villain' or secondly, there is a general consensus that you are a bit of a cockwipe and so people have become mildly irritated with you.

 

Obviously I know which one you'd rather believe it to be.

 

In the history of the world the mob are nearly always wrong. Julius Caesar will testify to this.

 

No he won't. He's dead, he can't testify to pretty much anything...

[Isegrim 9737]

See, all I did in the beginning was posting a gardening advice. Something I've been doing here for years in various threads that are or turning into total humbug. So it had absolutely nothing to do with you as a person. Still you call me a "usual suspect" and speak of some kind of "psychological denial" (appropriate use of quotation marks by the way). I'll leave you with your obsession with yourself and your believe that you are a villain.

 

Like I said the level of denial to say that I'm obsessed in a thread this all about "me", which designed and intended to set up the "villian" - there is no other reason to make a thread like this other wise (I'm not obsessed just enjoying being proved SO very right and it's frankly funny and fascinating ) .

 

And yet ignore the level of obsession required for someone to make a thread like this in the first place. Well done, it must take some doing.

See, all I did in the beginning was posting a gardening advice. Something I've been doing here for years in various threads that are or turning into total humbug. For example see Leaze's thread about Mick in the Newcastle section. So my participation had little to do with you. Or in fact, if you want, rather than ignoring it was actually acknowledging that it needs some kind of obsession to start this kind of an abortion of a thread in the first place. So by trying to ridicule it I was actually on your side in the beginning. So how this makes me a "usual suspect" is a bit hilarious. Though participating on toontastic regularly does make me a usual suspect to post in a thread.

 

But your need to reply to (and misinterpreting) nearly every single post in this thread because of an alleged mob mentality and as you think that they are highlighting your villain state do make you look very obsessed.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Isegrim

[Guest alex]

Up there with the 5-a-side thread anyway.

 

Ignoring the obsession it takes to even contemplate making a thread like this. (which is a LOT )

 

 

Without a "villain" (or several - as I've seen in my time here, people love them, or love to hate them.... but need them either way) things quickly become like this:

 

P1: "I'm having an apple for lunch"

P2: "Wow an apple I wish I had and apple"

P3: "I agree"

P4: "It's nice to have an apple for lunch"

P1: "Yes it is"

Fish: "Can I have an apple?"

etc. etc.

 

 

Although I see you're keenly avoiding answering my question, but even you must admit how right I am now, surely?