Business told they can discriminate in favour of female and ethnic minority job candidates

[ewerk 27284]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

And according to the current EU 'constitution' all member states have to be in favour, or is an organisation who ignore their own rules democratic in your opinion?

[Fop 1]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

 

If the EU was already a SUPERSTATE, yes.

And indeed if it weren't in the treaty that EVERY state has to ratify it for it to stand, yes.

 

 

But then that's exactly the issue, isn't it.

 

 

As I said your understanding of "democracy" puts you with exalted company.

 

Woo-hoo!

 

Bolds, italics, CAPITALS, smilies and "quotes!"

 

Ladies and gentlemen, the Fop, bullshit bingo FULL HOUSE!

 

 

So you agree with Torres then..... as I said exalted company.

[Torres 0]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

And according to the current EU 'constitution' all member states have to be in favour, or is an organisation who ignore their own rules democratic in your opinion?

 

 

 

Yes it would be. Now I think the progressive states should move ahead and leave the backward ones behind, for the good of Europe. The Irish vote should be respected but they in turn should respect the wishes of progressive states and take a back seat.

 

Poor old fop knows as little about politics as he does about football.

[Fop 1]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

And according to the current EU 'constitution' all member states have to be in favour, or is an organisation who ignore their own rules democratic in your opinion?

 

 

 

Yes it would be. Now I think the progressive states should move ahead and leave the backward ones behind, for the good of Europe. The Irish vote should be respected but they in turn should respect the wishes of progressive states and take a back seat.

 

Poor old fop knows as little about politics as he does about football.

 

I do like it when I shut you up, and make you have to grope around for a silly insult instead.

 

 

 

But with my limited knowledge of politics I'm fairly sure they'll try to go ahead despite it being integral to the treaty that all states ratify it - whether they'll succeed or not I don't know, although there's at least one other country looking like dropping another spanner in the EU Constitution.

[ewerk 27284]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

And according to the current EU 'constitution' all member states have to be in favour, or is an organisation who ignore their own rules democratic in your opinion?

 

 

 

Yes it would be. Now I think the progressive states should move ahead and leave the backward ones behind, for the good of Europe. The Irish vote should be respected but they in turn should respect the wishes of progressive states and take a back seat.

 

Poor old fop knows as little about politics as he does about football.

 

So you're advocating bypassing one of the constitutional blocks that the EU is built on, a safe guard given to countries to guarantee their sovereignty? How very democratic of you. Once again you've shown yourself to be incredibly ignorant, well done.

[Tom 13921]

Female politicians often equal feminism.

 

Positive discrimination doesn't exist in reality as it's always negative for someone.

 

I like big butts and I cannot lie.

[Meenzer 14243]

Female politicians often equal feminism.

 

Positive discrimination doesn't exist in reality as it's always negative for someone.

 

I like big butts and I cannot lie.

Small butt-ist.

[acrossthepond 752]

If the no vote is somehow discounted it's essentially a message that Ireland's voice is not relevant, and by extension, that Ireland is not important to and not welcome in the EU. That'll really inspire confidence in all of the smaller, less powerful European countries currently taking part in the EU, as well as the rest of non-EU Eastern Europe.

 

It's not "democracy" when it only works if everyone goes along with the big boys. "Majority rules" is part of democracy - another part is everyone's voice being heard.

[Guest alex]

If the no vote is somehow discounted it's essentially a message that Ireland's voice is not relevant, and by extension, that Ireland is not important to and not welcome in the EU. That'll really inspire confidence in all of the smaller, less powerful European countries currently taking part in the EU, as well as the rest of non-EU Eastern Europe.

 

It's not "democracy" when it only works if everyone goes along with the big boys. "Majority rules" is part of democracy - another part is everyone's voice being heard.

The 'problem' if you like with the 'no' vote in Ireland is that, iirc, Ireland were the only country who chose to have a referendum out of all the EU countries and even then you had a very small turnout - around the 40% mark. So really what you've got is about 20% of the electorate in a small country having a big say in the future of the rest of the EU, i.e. millions and millions of people. I'm not saying that means Ireland should be ignored on this or that the EU should just ride roughshod over them and go ahead with their plans anyway but I'm not sure it's particularly 'democratic' that so few people should have so little say. Additionally I think you're points about Ireland not being welcome, along with other small member states not having their confidence inspired is largely irrelevent because all the economies of those countries have benefitted to the tune of billions of Euros due to their EU membership. This also explains why the non-EU countries you mention are queueing up to join.

[manc-mag 1]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

 

If the EU was already a SUPERSTATE, yes.

And indeed if it weren't in the treaty that EVERY state has to ratify it for it to stand, yes.

 

 

But then that's exactly the issue, isn't it.

 

 

As I said your understanding of "democracy" puts you with exalted company.

 

Woo-hoo!

 

Bolds, italics, CAPITALS, smilies and "quotes!"

 

Ladies and gentlemen, the Fop, bullshit bingo FULL HOUSE!

 

 

So you agree with Torres then..... as I said exalted company.

 

Fuck off tbh!

 

You're quoting basic law. It's not rocket science, it's just the basic rudiments of the constitution.

 

I was merely laughing at the ludicrous way in which you try and emphasize your point.

[Fop 1]

If the no vote is somehow discounted it's essentially a message that Ireland's voice is not relevant, and by extension, that Ireland is not important to and not welcome in the EU. That'll really inspire confidence in all of the smaller, less powerful European countries currently taking part in the EU, as well as the rest of non-EU Eastern Europe.

 

It's not "democracy" when it only works if everyone goes along with the big boys. "Majority rules" is part of democracy - another part is everyone's voice being heard.

The 'problem' if you like with the 'no' vote in Ireland is that, iirc, Ireland were the only country who chose to have a referendum out of all the EU countries and even then you had a very small turnout - around the 40% mark. So really what you've got is about 20% of the electorate in a small country having a big say in the future of the rest of the EU, i.e. millions and millions of people. I'm not saying that means Ireland should be ignored on this or that the EU should just ride roughshod over them and go ahead with their plans anyway but I'm not sure it's particularly 'democratic' that so few people should have so little say. Additionally I think you're points about Ireland not being welcome, along with other small member states not having their confidence inspired is largely irrelevent because all the economies of those countries have benefitted to the tune of billions of Euros due to their EU membership. This also explains why the non-EU countries you mention are queueing up to join.

 

Ireland had to have a vote, they had no choice.

 

 

I suspect if they had they'd have done the same thing as Brown and most all the rest and not allowed the public a say..... which is pretty iffy considering the only difference between the Treaty and the Constitution are some fairly superfluous clauses removed, the meat of them both is exactly the same...... just with a different name.

 

The thing is being in the EU as it is now is a "good thing" broadly (yes, there are drawbacks too), but the Treaty/Constitution is without doubt empire building. What makes it worse is that people aren't being given a direct vote and that many of the changes proposed make the EU more commission-like (i.e. unelected political elite jobs and embezzlement for the boys/girls).

 

The EU system should be become more democratic and more directly accountable, not less.... yet that's exactly NOT what they are doing whilst grabbing more and more power for these unelected posts.

[Fop 1]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

 

If the EU was already a SUPERSTATE, yes.

And indeed if it weren't in the treaty that EVERY state has to ratify it for it to stand, yes.

 

 

But then that's exactly the issue, isn't it.

 

 

As I said your understanding of "democracy" puts you with exalted company.

 

Woo-hoo!

 

Bolds, italics, CAPITALS, smilies and "quotes!"

 

Ladies and gentlemen, the Fop, bullshit bingo FULL HOUSE!

 

 

So you agree with Torres then..... as I said exalted company.

 

Fuck off tbh!

 

You're quoting basic law. It's not rocket science, it's just the basic rudiments of the constitution.

 

I was merely laughing at the ludicrous way in which you try and emphasize your point.

 

So you agree with me then. That must be hard for someone as obsessed with me and small minded as yourself.

 

Well done though, just shows progress can be made.

[manc-mag 1]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

 

If the EU was already a SUPERSTATE, yes.

And indeed if it weren't in the treaty that EVERY state has to ratify it for it to stand, yes.

 

 

But then that's exactly the issue, isn't it.

 

 

As I said your understanding of "democracy" puts you with exalted company.

 

Woo-hoo!

 

Bolds, italics, CAPITALS, smilies and "quotes!"

 

Ladies and gentlemen, the Fop, bullshit bingo FULL HOUSE!

 

 

So you agree with Torres then..... as I said exalted company.

 

Fuck off tbh!

 

You're quoting basic law. It's not rocket science, it's just the basic rudiments of the constitution.

 

I was merely laughing at the ludicrous way in which you try and emphasize your point.

 

So you agree with me then. That must be hard for someone as obsessed with me and small minded as yourself.

 

Well done though, just shows progress can be made.

 

You don't always have the wrong idea Fop-you're just not very good at presenting it.

[Fop 1]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

 

If the EU was already a SUPERSTATE, yes.

And indeed if it weren't in the treaty that EVERY state has to ratify it for it to stand, yes.

 

 

But then that's exactly the issue, isn't it.

 

 

As I said your understanding of "democracy" puts you with exalted company.

 

Woo-hoo!

 

Bolds, italics, CAPITALS, smilies and "quotes!"

 

Ladies and gentlemen, the Fop, bullshit bingo FULL HOUSE!

 

 

So you agree with Torres then..... as I said exalted company.

 

Fuck off tbh!

 

You're quoting basic law. It's not rocket science, it's just the basic rudiments of the constitution.

 

I was merely laughing at the ludicrous way in which you try and emphasize your point.

 

So you agree with me then. That must be hard for someone as obsessed with me and small minded as yourself.

 

Well done though, just shows progress can be made.

 

You don't always have the wrong idea Fop-you're just not very good at presenting it.

The do say the line between hate and love is a thin one, as I told Fish - I'm not sleeping with you.

[Torres 0]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

And according to the current EU 'constitution' all member states have to be in favour, or is an organisation who ignore their own rules democratic in your opinion?

 

 

 

Yes it would be. Now I think the progressive states should move ahead and leave the backward ones behind, for the good of Europe. The Irish vote should be respected but they in turn should respect the wishes of progressive states and take a back seat.

 

Poor old fop knows as little about politics as he does about football.

 

I do like it when I shut you up, and make you have to grope around for a silly insult instead.

 

 

 

But with my limited knowledge of politics I'm fairly sure they'll try to go ahead despite it being integral to the treaty that all states ratify it - whether they'll succeed or not I don't know, although there's at least one other country looking like dropping another spanner in the EU Constitution.

 

Limited is really stretching it. I`m sure if Ireland votes no again they`ll be left behind whether they like it or not. Should that happen they`ll have deserved to be left out (voting for a group of ex terrorists and a few peados in frocks) ... Europe has to remain and become more competitive if it is to be a real player on the world stage and simply can`t pander to a tiny majority who don`t even know what they voted for.

 

There`s too much at stake. Time to move on.

[manc-mag 1]

...and then at other times it's just a case of complete nonsense.

[Guest alex]

If the no vote is somehow discounted it's essentially a message that Ireland's voice is not relevant, and by extension, that Ireland is not important to and not welcome in the EU. That'll really inspire confidence in all of the smaller, less powerful European countries currently taking part in the EU, as well as the rest of non-EU Eastern Europe.

 

It's not "democracy" when it only works if everyone goes along with the big boys. "Majority rules" is part of democracy - another part is everyone's voice being heard.

The 'problem' if you like with the 'no' vote in Ireland is that, iirc, Ireland were the only country who chose to have a referendum out of all the EU countries and even then you had a very small turnout - around the 40% mark. So really what you've got is about 20% of the electorate in a small country having a big say in the future of the rest of the EU, i.e. millions and millions of people. I'm not saying that means Ireland should be ignored on this or that the EU should just ride roughshod over them and go ahead with their plans anyway but I'm not sure it's particularly 'democratic' that so few people should have so little say. Additionally I think you're points about Ireland not being welcome, along with other small member states not having their confidence inspired is largely irrelevent because all the economies of those countries have benefitted to the tune of billions of Euros due to their EU membership. This also explains why the non-EU countries you mention are queueing up to join.

 

Ireland had to have a vote, they had no choice.

 

I wasn't aware of that. Why was that?

[ewerk 27284]

If the no vote is somehow discounted it's essentially a message that Ireland's voice is not relevant, and by extension, that Ireland is not important to and not welcome in the EU. That'll really inspire confidence in all of the smaller, less powerful European countries currently taking part in the EU, as well as the rest of non-EU Eastern Europe.

 

It's not "democracy" when it only works if everyone goes along with the big boys. "Majority rules" is part of democracy - another part is everyone's voice being heard.

The 'problem' if you like with the 'no' vote in Ireland is that, iirc, Ireland were the only country who chose to have a referendum out of all the EU countries and even then you had a very small turnout - around the 40% mark. So really what you've got is about 20% of the electorate in a small country having a big say in the future of the rest of the EU, i.e. millions and millions of people. I'm not saying that means Ireland should be ignored on this or that the EU should just ride roughshod over them and go ahead with their plans anyway but I'm not sure it's particularly 'democratic' that so few people should have so little say. Additionally I think you're points about Ireland not being welcome, along with other small member states not having their confidence inspired is largely irrelevent because all the economies of those countries have benefitted to the tune of billions of Euros due to their EU membership. This also explains why the non-EU countries you mention are queueing up to join.

 

Ireland had to have a vote, they had no choice.

 

I wasn't aware of that. Why was that?

 

The treaty would have affected the Irish constitution so they automatically had to have a referendum on it, same thing happened after the Good Friday Agreement when they gave up their claim on Northern Ireland.

[Torres 0]

If the no vote is somehow discounted it's essentially a message that Ireland's voice is not relevant, and by extension, that Ireland is not important to and not welcome in the EU. That'll really inspire confidence in all of the smaller, less powerful European countries currently taking part in the EU, as well as the rest of non-EU Eastern Europe.

 

It's not "democracy" when it only works if everyone goes along with the big boys. "Majority rules" is part of democracy - another part is everyone's voice being heard.

The 'problem' if you like with the 'no' vote in Ireland is that, iirc, Ireland were the only country who chose to have a referendum out of all the EU countries and even then you had a very small turnout - around the 40% mark. So really what you've got is about 20% of the electorate in a small country having a big say in the future of the rest of the EU, i.e. millions and millions of people. I'm not saying that means Ireland should be ignored on this or that the EU should just ride roughshod over them and go ahead with their plans anyway but I'm not sure it's particularly 'democratic' that so few people should have so little say. Additionally I think you're points about Ireland not being welcome, along with other small member states not having their confidence inspired is largely irrelevent because all the economies of those countries have benefitted to the tune of billions of Euros due to their EU membership. This also explains why the non-EU countries you mention are queueing up to join.

 

Ireland had to have a vote, they had no choice.

 

I wasn't aware of that. Why was that?

 

 

It`s in their constitution.

[Guest alex]

If the no vote is somehow discounted it's essentially a message that Ireland's voice is not relevant, and by extension, that Ireland is not important to and not welcome in the EU. That'll really inspire confidence in all of the smaller, less powerful European countries currently taking part in the EU, as well as the rest of non-EU Eastern Europe.

 

It's not "democracy" when it only works if everyone goes along with the big boys. "Majority rules" is part of democracy - another part is everyone's voice being heard.

The 'problem' if you like with the 'no' vote in Ireland is that, iirc, Ireland were the only country who chose to have a referendum out of all the EU countries and even then you had a very small turnout - around the 40% mark. So really what you've got is about 20% of the electorate in a small country having a big say in the future of the rest of the EU, i.e. millions and millions of people. I'm not saying that means Ireland should be ignored on this or that the EU should just ride roughshod over them and go ahead with their plans anyway but I'm not sure it's particularly 'democratic' that so few people should have so little say. Additionally I think you're points about Ireland not being welcome, along with other small member states not having their confidence inspired is largely irrelevent because all the economies of those countries have benefitted to the tune of billions of Euros due to their EU membership. This also explains why the non-EU countries you mention are queueing up to join.

 

Ireland had to have a vote, they had no choice.

 

I wasn't aware of that. Why was that?

 

The treaty would have affected the Irish constitution so they automatically had to have a referendum on it, same thing happened after the Good Friday Agreement when they gave up their claim on Northern Ireland.

Ah right, cheers. Not like Fop to ignore the essence of my point over a trifling matter either.

[Guest alex]

Btw, that's a trifling matter in regard to what I was specifically on about, rather than generally

[Fop 1]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

And according to the current EU 'constitution' all member states have to be in favour, or is an organisation who ignore their own rules democratic in your opinion?

 

 

 

Yes it would be. Now I think the progressive states should move ahead and leave the backward ones behind, for the good of Europe. The Irish vote should be respected but they in turn should respect the wishes of progressive states and take a back seat.

 

Poor old fop knows as little about politics as he does about football.

 

I do like it when I shut you up, and make you have to grope around for a silly insult instead.

 

 

 

But with my limited knowledge of politics I'm fairly sure they'll try to go ahead despite it being integral to the treaty that all states ratify it - whether they'll succeed or not I don't know, although there's at least one other country looking like dropping another spanner in the EU Constitution.

 

Limited is really stretching it. I`m sure if Ireland votes no again they`ll be left behind whether they like it or not. Should that happen they`ll have deserved to be left out (voting for a group of ex terrorists and a few peados in frocks) ... Europe has to remain and become more competitive if it is to be a real player on the world stage and simply can`t pander to a tiny majority who don`t even know what they voted for.

 

There`s too much at stake. Time to move on.

 

I don't think they'll be given another chance, I think some fudge will be worked.

 

 

Also out of interest how can you crusade for an even more non-democratic EU when you say you live in a non-EU country for purposes of tax avoidance? Although again that does fit in with the new EU rather well, it's about power and making money, NOT democracy.

[Fop 1]

...and then at other times it's just a case of complete nonsense.

Back to hate now that I've rebuffed your sexual hopes I see.

 

 

 

Btw, that's a trifling matter in regard to what I was specifically on about, rather than generally

 

You don't honestly think a politician would do something as insane as give the public a choice if they didn't have to did you?

 

 

That's the worst bit of how the EU is "moving forward" (argh I'm using their speak now), it's not becoming a parliament of countries with democratic representation, so much as gentlemen's club.

 

Politicians are bad enough when they have to put their head on the line, and the EU commission repeatedly shows how bad they are when they do not.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Fop

[Meenzer 14243]

'Twas ever thus in politics. Besides, when you've got places like Germany/Benelux etc. with their kneejerk "OMG AMERICA IS SATAN"-spouting populations involved, even an ultra-corrupt EU will survive for decades simply on the "better to be in a flawed bloc than none at all" argument.

[Fop 1]

'Twas ever thus in politics. Besides, when you've got places like Germany/Benelux etc. with their kneejerk "OMG AMERICA IS SATAN"-spouting populations involved, even an ultra-corrupt EU will survive for decades simply on the "better to be in a flawed bloc than none at all" argument.

 

Yup, I can't see anything putting the brakes on or halting the march of the EU, because it's driven by political expedience, a massive dollop of greed and fear of worse case scenarios/being left out.

 

Although I do wonder if maybe in 500 years time there won't be some interesting history textbooks writing about a period that makes the break up of Yugoslavia seem like a playground spat.