Homeopathy

[Fop 1]

I grew out of it.

 

And taking up smoking stopped the asthma in its tracks.

 

There could be money in that!

[spongebob toonpants 3604]

I have to say I'm sceptical about it (but not as sceptical as with homeopathy). It may be of some benefit for some chronic pain syndromes, that's about it.

 

I know it's easy to recommend books but if you're spending a lot on acupuncture you may want to consider reading something like Trick or Treatment by Singh and Ernst. Ernst is actually a qualifed homeopath which is interesting. Anyway, they give the low down on the evidence base for most the complementary and alternative medicines and talk extensively about acupuncture. The first few chapters, the development of western 'evidence-based' medicine I think are useful for everyone to know about.

 

John Diamond (dead ex-husband of Nigella Lawson) also got half way though writing a brilliant book called snake oil before his cancer killed him. He was completely non-medical which makes it a very impressive achievement imo.

 

Looks interesting, I will try and give it a go.

[Park Life 70]

I grew out of it.

 

And taking up smoking stopped the asthma in its tracks.

 

There could be money in that!

 

© Parky Industries.

[Jusoda Kid 1]

For the first three years of my teens my cock kept growing so bad that my elbow, knee joints, feet and hands would go blue due to lack of circulation when I got vexed. I had one uninterrupted nights sleep in all this time due to constantly wanting to fondle myself. I had unending hospital and doctor visits, which would mitigate the symptoms to some extent but never approach improving my condition in any real way. I was in constant agony whenever I flicked to the knickers and Bra section in the Littlewoods catalogue.

 

My mother decided to visit a homoeopath, recommended by one of her hippy mates as she was sick of my bedding resembling a sheet of plywood, who in turn recommended sulphur tablets. I was convinced it was complete woodery - one week later I had completely changed my view. It was genuinely like a miracle cure, I've slept like a baby's arm holding an apple ever since.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Wacky Jnr

[Guest alex]

Your lass told me your cock was only average sized. However in proportion to the rest of your body it did look pretty big

[Jusoda Kid 1]

Your lass told me your cock was only average sized. However in proportion to the rest of your body it did look pretty big

 

 

It's called Beadle syndrome if you must know.

[Guest alex]

Your lass told me your cock was only average sized. However in proportion to the rest of your body it did look pretty big

 

 

It's called Beadle syndrome if you must know.

Jeremy Beadle had a big cock, but on the other hand....

[NJS 3981]

The actual "science" behind homeopathy is bollocks imo - the tiniest concentration of a substance in water (sometimes lower than normal) cannot affect any cure - if its all about water retaining the "memory" of the substance then that would apply to all the crap (literally in some cases) that was ever in the water.

 

However I think it can be beneficial in that studies show that if the average GP appointment of 10 minutes is extended to 30 minutes which mirrors a typical "alternative" appointment then a placebo (which is generally what homeopathic medicine is) works with the same frequency. In other words the unhurried, friendly, reassuring chat with a doctor is what "tricks" the human mind/body into making itself feel better about itself which can lead to positive results. Note this would apply in general to private doctors as well.

 

I agree with Renton that people should be perfectly free to try homeopathy but I don't think the NHS should pay for it.

[Kid Dynamite 5924]

My mates dad died from septicemia because the GP didnt give him antibiotics for his tonsilitis

[Renton 17796]

The actual "science" behind homeopathy is bollocks imo - the tiniest concentration of a substance in water (sometimes lower than normal) cannot affect any cure - if its all about water retaining the "memory" of the substance then that would apply to all the crap (literally in some cases) that was ever in the water.

 

However I think it can be beneficial in that studies show that if the average GP appointment of 10 minutes is extended to 30 minutes which mirrors a typical "alternative" appointment then a placebo (which is generally what homeopathic medicine is) works with the same frequency. In other words the unhurried, friendly, reassuring chat with a doctor is what "tricks" the human mind/body into making itself feel better about itself which can lead to positive results. Note this would apply in general to private doctors as well.

 

I agree with Renton that people should be perfectly free to try homeopathy but I don't think the NHS should pay for it.

 

There is literally no active agent in a homeopathic solution, the 'water memory' is pure pseudoscience which homeopaths had to invent to account for the techniques so-called efficacy. Of course, there is no evidence it exists and it is impossible, using any means, to determine the difference between a homeopathic solution and a glass of water. Also, lets say it does somehow exist. How does it survive the evaporation process when it's put on the sugar tablet? How does this then survive being swallowed and dissolved in digestive juices. How does this survive absorption in the intestine? How does this then interact with the immune system and effect a cure? Seriously, I don't know how anyone could believe any of this.

 

My favourite homeopathic remedy has to be the ultra-dilute solution of the Berlin wall, I mean seriously, wtf? If you can believe this then you can believe anything.

[Rob W 0]

for once I'm with Renton on this

 

No double blind test has ever proved homeopathy works any better than a placebo or a witch doctor dancing around

[Fop 1]

for once I'm with Renton on this

 

No double blind test has ever proved homeopathy works any better than a placebo or a witch doctor dancing around

 

 

A witch doctor cured my canceraids. Don't mock them.

[Rob W 0]

for once I'm with Renton on this

 

No double blind test has ever proved homeopathy works any better than a placebo or a witch doctor dancing around

 

 

A witch doctor cured my canceraids. Don't mock them.

 

 

I've always been MOST polite to the ones I've met - y' never knaa

[Park Life 70]

for once I'm with Renton on this

 

No double blind test has ever proved homeopathy works any better than a placebo or a witch doctor dancing around

 

I'd go for the witch doctah out of those three.

[Fop 1]

for once I'm with Renton on this

 

No double blind test has ever proved homeopathy works any better than a placebo or a witch doctor dancing around

 

 

A witch doctor cured my canceraids. Don't mock them.

 

 

I've always been MOST polite to the ones I've met - y' never knaa

 

Well the thing is in many places whether or not they can make your bits drop off with a curse, they probably can put out a hit on you, so it's better to be safe than sorry.

[Happy Face 29]

Water Memory!

 

[Rob W 0]

aye - amazing what some folk will believe eh?

[Park Life 70]

Water does have a kind of memory as it goes.

[Renton 17796]

Water does have a kind of memory as it goes.

 

How's that then?

[Park Life 70]

Water does have a kind of memory as it goes.

 

How's that then?

 

 

Are you taking the piss?

[Park Life 70]

Neu Scientificata...

 

Icy claim that water has memory

 

19:00 11 June 2003 by Lionel Milgrom

Claims do not come much more controversial than the idea that water might retain a memory of substances once dissolved in it. The notion is central to homeopathy, which treats patients with samples so dilute they are unlikely to contain a single molecule of the active compound, but it is generally ridiculed by scientists.

 

Holding such a heretical view famously cost one of France's top allergy researchers, Jacques Benveniste, his funding, labs and reputation after his findings were discredited in 1988.

 

Yet a paper is about to be published in the reputable journal Physica A claiming to show that even though they should be identical, the structure of hydrogen bonds in pure water is very different from that in homeopathic dilutions of salt solutions. Could it be time to take the "memory" of water seriously?

 

The paper's author, Swiss chemist Louis Rey, is using thermoluminescence to study the structure of solids. The technique involves bathing a chilled sample with radiation. When the sample is warmed up, the stored energy is released as light in a pattern that reflects the atomic structure of the sample.

 

Twin peaks

 

When Rey used the method on ice he saw two peaks of light, at temperatures of around 120 K and 170 K. Rey wanted to test the idea, suggested by other researchers, that the 170 K peak reflects the pattern of hydrogen bonds within the ice. In his experiments he used heavy water (which contains the heavy hydrogen isotope deuterium), because it has stronger hydrogen bonds than normal water.

 

Aware of homeopaths' claims that patterns of hydrogen bonds can survive successive dilutions, Rey decided to test samples that had been diluted down to a notional 10-30 grams per cubic centimetre - way beyond the point when any ions of the original substance could remain. "We thought it would be of interest to challenge the theory," he says.

 

Each dilution was made according to a strict protocol, and vigorously stirred at each stage, as homeopaths do. When Rey compared the ultra-dilute lithium and sodium chloride solutions with pure water that had been through the same process, the difference in their thermoluminescence peaks compared with pure water was still there (see graph).

 

"Much to our surprise, the thermoluminescence glows of the three systems were substantially different," he says. He believes the result proves that the networks of hydrogen bonds in the samples were different.

 

 

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3817...has-memory.html

Edited November 23, 2008 by Park Life

[Renton 17796]

You clipped out the rest of the article:

 

Martin Chaplin from London's South Bank University, an expert on water and hydrogen bonding, is not so sure. "Rey's rationale for water memory seems most unlikely," he says. "Most hydrogen bonding in liquid water rearranges when it freezes."

 

He points out that the two thermoluminescence peaks Rey observed occur around the temperatures where ice is known to undergo transitions between different phases. He suggests that tiny amounts of impurities in the samples, perhaps due to inefficient mixing, could be getting concentrated at the boundaries between different phases in the ice and causing the changes in thermoluminescence.

 

But thermoluminescence expert Raphael Visocekas from the Denis Diderot University of Paris, who watched Rey carry out some of his experiments, says he is convinced. "The experiments showed a very nice reproducibility," he told New Scientist. "It is trustworthy physics." He see no reason why patterns of hydrogen bonds in the liquid samples should not survive freezing and affect the molecular arrangement of the ice.

 

After his own experience, Benveniste advises caution. "This is interesting work, but Rey's experiments were not blinded and although he says the work is reproducible, he doesn't say how many experiments he did," he says. "As I know to my cost, this is such a controversial field, it is mandatory to be as foolproof as possible."

 

That experiment would have to reproduced independently, there have been several claims like this in the past which have never been replicated by independent laboratories (also the fact he carried out the experiments unblinded is a major methodological flaw, I know this from experience). Even if it was replicated (which I seriously doubt), its hardly proof of 'memory' and says nothing about the transferance of biological information.

Edited November 23, 2008 by Renton

[Park Life 70]

You clipped out the rest of the article:

 

Martin Chaplin from London's South Bank University, an expert on water and hydrogen bonding, is not so sure. "Rey's rationale for water memory seems most unlikely," he says. "Most hydrogen bonding in liquid water rearranges when it freezes."

 

He points out that the two thermoluminescence peaks Rey observed occur around the temperatures where ice is known to undergo transitions between different phases. He suggests that tiny amounts of impurities in the samples, perhaps due to inefficient mixing, could be getting concentrated at the boundaries between different phases in the ice and causing the changes in thermoluminescence.

 

But thermoluminescence expert Raphael Visocekas from the Denis Diderot University of Paris, who watched Rey carry out some of his experiments, says he is convinced. "The experiments showed a very nice reproducibility," he told New Scientist. "It is trustworthy physics." He see no reason why patterns of hydrogen bonds in the liquid samples should not survive freezing and affect the molecular arrangement of the ice.

 

After his own experience, Benveniste advises caution. "This is interesting work, but Rey's experiments were not blinded and although he says the work is reproducible, he doesn't say how many experiments he did," he says. "As I know to my cost, this is such a controversial field, it is mandatory to be as foolproof as possible."

 

That experiment would have to reproduced independently, there have been several claims like this in the past which have never been replicated by independent laboratories (also the fact he carried out the experiments unblinded is a major methodological flaw, I know this from experience). Even if it was replicated (which I seriously doubt), its hardly proof of 'memory' and says nothing about the transferance of biological information.

 

 

I didn't clip anything out, I gave the link so you may read all of it.

Edited November 23, 2008 by Park Life

[Park Life 70]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7505286.stm

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/...4152521,00.html

 

 

 

This last notion, famously promoted by French biologist Dr Jacques Benveniste, cost him his laboratories, his funding, and ultimately his international scientific credibility. However, it did not deter Professor Ennis who, being a scientist, was not afraid to try to prove Benveniste wrong. So, more than a decade after Benveniste's excommunication from the scientific mainstream, she jumped at the chance to join a large pan-European research team, hoping finally to lay the Benveniste "heresy" to rest. But she was in for a shock: for the team's latest results controversially now suggest that Benveniste might have been right all along."

Edited November 24, 2008 by Park Life

[Fop 1]

Benveniste believes he already knows what constitutes the water-memory effect and claims to be able to record and transmit the "signals" of biochemical substances around the world via the internet. These, he claims, cause changes in biological tissues as if the substance was actually present.

 

He's right, I'm controlling you all as you read this.....