Ferguson: No where in the world has support like Newcastle United

[Fop 1]

Funny because Fop doesn't rate Sven iirc yet he does rate Robson

Fop just thinks he's lucky (well up till Man City anyway), and doesn't overrate him.

I brought it up because of the similarities to Robson's CV. Eriksson probably achieved more though.

 

Robson wasn't lucky though, quite the opposite often in fact.

[Renton 18082]

Funny because Fop doesn't rate Sven iirc yet he does rate Robson

Fop just thinks he's lucky (well up till Man City anyway), and doesn't overrate him.

I brought it up because of the similarities to Robson's CV. Eriksson probably achieved more though.

 

Robson wasn't lucky though, quite the opposite often in fact.

 

How do you quantify 'luck'. In what way has Robson been unlucky (other than getting cancer five times I mean)?

[Guest alex]

Funny because Fop doesn't rate Sven iirc yet he does rate Robson

Fop just thinks he's lucky (well up till Man City anyway), and doesn't overrate him.

I brought it up because of the similarities to Robson's CV. Eriksson probably achieved more though.

 

Robson wasn't lucky though, quite the opposite often in fact.

I think all good managers need a bit of luck. It evens itself out though. I can think of several examples where SBR was lucky. He signed Bellamy after wanting Jeffers. Same with getting Robert after wanting Zenden. He only picked Peter Beardsley in Mexico '86 as a last resort (in the third game iirc) as he originally thought Hately was a better partner for Lineker. The 3 at the back experiment four years later was just something he tried that came off. He had no intention of using it and hadn't done so in qualifying. Things like that.

I sort of think you make your own luck as well mind.

[Renton 18082]

One thing is certain, you don't win the premiership 11 times through luck.

 

Regarding Robson, I think some of his teams had a problem with bottle you don't see with teams led by truely great managers. He strikes me as a bit of a 'nearly man', more accustomed to second place than being a champion. Of course that's quite a subjective judgement on my behalf but I'm playing by Fop rules.

[Fop 1]

Funny because Fop doesn't rate Sven iirc yet he does rate Robson

Fop just thinks he's lucky (well up till Man City anyway), and doesn't overrate him.

I brought it up because of the similarities to Robson's CV. Eriksson probably achieved more though.

 

Robson wasn't lucky though, quite the opposite often in fact.

 

How do you quantify 'luck'. In what way has Robson been unlucky (other than getting cancer five times I mean)?

 

In football quite a few ways, comparatively.

[Fop 1]

Funny because Fop doesn't rate Sven iirc yet he does rate Robson

Fop just thinks he's lucky (well up till Man City anyway), and doesn't overrate him.

I brought it up because of the similarities to Robson's CV. Eriksson probably achieved more though.

 

Robson wasn't lucky though, quite the opposite often in fact.

I think all good managers need a bit of luck. It evens itself out though. I can think of several examples where SBR was lucky. He signed Bellamy after wanting Jeffers. Same with getting Robert after wanting Zenden. He only picked Peter Beardsley in Mexico '86 as a last resort (in the third game iirc) as he originally thought Hately was a better partner for Lineker. The 3 at the back experiment four years later was just something he tried that came off. He had no intention of using it and hadn't done so in qualifying. Things like that.

I sort of think you make your own luck as well mind.

 

Aye he repeatedly make lemonade out of lemons. Sven never really had too (or Fergy for that matter).

[Fop 1]

One thing is certain, you don't win the premiership 11 times through luck.

 

No, but then would Fergy have won the Premiership 11 times anywhere but Man U?

 

 

Regarding Robson, I think some of his teams had a problem with bottle you don't see with teams led by truely great managers. He strikes me as a bit of a 'nearly man', more accustomed to second place than being a champion. Of course that's quite a subjective judgement on my behalf but I'm playing by Fop rules.

Nice try, but a terrible see though "argument". 3/10 Must try harder (just ask manc-foplite ).

[Tom 13915]

Fop man you're getting tedious.

[Fop 1]

Fop man you're getting tedious.

Is Renton?

[Tom 13915]

No offence but at the moment you seem to be the catalyst.

[Fop 1]

No offence but at the moment you seem to be the catalyst.

 

Aye, he's clearly just interested in arguing a deeply held belief.

 

Has the illness started again Fop? Don't be afraid to ask for help.

[Guest Stevie]

Fop you should take a leaf out of my book and just know when to pipe down now and then.

[Fop 1]

Fop you should take a leaf out of my book and just know when to pipe down now and then.

Because the usual suspects want to argue for the sake of arguing?

 

Admittedly the best one was Renton and the CPU thread where he was utterly determined to argue even though he just about knew where the "on" button was.

[Renton 18082]

Fop you should take a leaf out of my book and just know when to pipe down now and then.

Because the usual suspects want to argue for the sake of arguing?

 

Admittedly the best one was Renton and the CPU thread where he was utterly determined to argue even though he just about knew where the "on" button was.

 

Utter hypocrisy doesn't even begin to describe this post, but it's par for the course from you. You have continually argued with people who know infinitely more than you in a myriad of topics, even when you have been shown up to be an utter tool. It wouldn't be so bad but you are so fucking tedious with it.

[Guest alex]

One thing is certain, you don't win the premiership 11 times through luck.

 

No, but then would Fergy have won the Premiership 11 times anywhere but Man U?

 

 

Might have been possible at Liverpool I suppose (if he'd moved there when he left Aberdeen).

[Fop 1]

Fop you should take a leaf out of my book and just know when to pipe down now and then.

Because the usual suspects want to argue for the sake of arguing?

 

Admittedly the best one was Renton and the CPU thread where he was utterly determined to argue even though he just about knew where the "on" button was.

 

Utter hypocrisy doesn't even begin to describe this post, but it's par for the course from you. You have continually argued with people who know infinitely more than you in a myriad of topics, even when you have been shown up to be an utter tool. It wouldn't be so bad but you are so fucking tedious with it.

 

Yup utter hypocrisy doesn't even begin to describe your post - it's clear that you are just here to argue for the sake of arguing and have little if any real interest in the issue itself.

 

That you don't see it and project it onto others just adds too it.

[Fop 1]

One thing is certain, you don't win the premiership 11 times through luck.

 

No, but then would Fergy have won the Premiership 11 times anywhere but Man U?

 

 

Might have been possible at Liverpool I suppose (if he'd moved there when he left Aberdeen).

 

Aye maybe, but the list of clubs is small and select, probably wouldn't have done it at Everton for example, even though they were reasonable strong at the time.

[Guest alex]

I think you can only judge people on the jobs they've done though tbf, not the jobs they could maybe have done under different circumstances at different clubs.

[Renton 18082]

Fop you should take a leaf out of my book and just know when to pipe down now and then.

Because the usual suspects want to argue for the sake of arguing?

 

Admittedly the best one was Renton and the CPU thread where he was utterly determined to argue even though he just about knew where the "on" button was.

 

Utter hypocrisy doesn't even begin to describe this post, but it's par for the course from you. You have continually argued with people who know infinitely more than you in a myriad of topics, even when you have been shown up to be an utter tool. It wouldn't be so bad but you are so fucking tedious with it.

 

Yup utter hypocrisy doesn't even begin to describe your post - it's clear that you are just here to argue for the sake of arguing and have little if any real interest in the issue itself.

 

That you don't see it and project it onto others just adds too it.

 

I've little interest in continuing a pointless debate on how Alex Ferguson would perform as a manager in a parallel universe, true. It doesn't stop you arguing the toss about it though as if it proves anything.

 

Anyway, I think Mancmag is correct in assuming your strange behaviour is probably down to a mental defect, I'll leave it at that and let you get your customary last word in.

[Fop 1]

I think you can only judge people on the jobs they've done though tbf, not the jobs they could maybe have done under different circumstances at different clubs.

 

True, but like I said Fergy has been great at managing Man U with a lot of support and mullah from the club, which makes him a great Man U manager (maybe the greatest?) and a certainly one of the greatest British managers.

 

But THE greatest British manager (or THE greatest manager to have managed in a British league even)? Nope - for the reasons mentioned. Could he have been? Maybe.

[Guest alex]

I think you can only judge people on the jobs they've done though tbf, not the jobs they could maybe have done under different circumstances at different clubs.

 

True, but like I said Fergy has been great at managing Man U with a lot of support and mullah from the club, which makes him a great Man U manager (maybe the greatest?) and a certainly one of the greatest British managers.

 

But THE greatest British manager (or THE greatest manager to have managed in a British league even)? Nope - for the reasons mentioned. Could he have been? Maybe.

I think there's a strong argument he is. I think there are a few people in the same boat. Robson isn't one of them though.

[Fop 1]

Fop you should take a leaf out of my book and just know when to pipe down now and then.

Because the usual suspects want to argue for the sake of arguing?

 

Admittedly the best one was Renton and the CPU thread where he was utterly determined to argue even though he just about knew where the "on" button was.

 

Utter hypocrisy doesn't even begin to describe this post, but it's par for the course from you. You have continually argued with people who know infinitely more than you in a myriad of topics, even when you have been shown up to be an utter tool. It wouldn't be so bad but you are so fucking tedious with it.

 

Yup utter hypocrisy doesn't even begin to describe your post - it's clear that you are just here to argue for the sake of arguing and have little if any real interest in the issue itself.

 

That you don't see it and project it onto others just adds too it.

 

I've little interest in continuing a pointless debate

And yet you still do.

on how Alex Ferguson would perform as a manager in a parallel universe, true. It doesn't stop you arguing the toss about it though as if it proves anything.

It's actually this universe we're discussing.

Anyway, I think Mancmag is correct in assuming your strange behaviour is probably down to a mental defect, I'll leave it at that and let you get your customary last word in.

I see you're now following the manc-foplite 4 step program too. Never mind, eh.

[Fop 1]

I think you can only judge people on the jobs they've done though tbf, not the jobs they could maybe have done under different circumstances at different clubs.

 

True, but like I said Fergy has been great at managing Man U with a lot of support and mullah from the club, which makes him a great Man U manager (maybe the greatest?) and a certainly one of the greatest British managers.

 

But THE greatest British manager (or THE greatest manager to have managed in a British league even)? Nope - for the reasons mentioned. Could he have been? Maybe.

I think there's a strong argument he is. I think there are a few people in the same boat. Robson isn't one of them though.

 

It depends how you define it, if it is purely by number of cups and titles, then more so, yes.

 

But the fact is if you define Fergy by those criteria then you must also define NUFC by those criteria, which makes us an unsuccessful and generally rubbish club (does Renton believe this? I guess he must).

 

Personally I don't believe either.

[Ayatollah Hermione 12903]

But, what if there was a parallell universe where Robson had went to, say, Leeds. At Leeds, he was a total failure and never managed again. Therefore, he is a dreadful manager. If you're going to use what if's to cling on to an argument that everyone has ripped to bits, you should be able to look at the other side of the coin for Robson. Surely you can see how ridiculous your argument deriding a manager that has won upwards of 20 major trophies because he didn't do it at a poor club is? Actually...

[Guest alex]

I think you can only judge people on the jobs they've done though tbf, not the jobs they could maybe have done under different circumstances at different clubs.

 

True, but like I said Fergy has been great at managing Man U with a lot of support and mullah from the club, which makes him a great Man U manager (maybe the greatest?) and a certainly one of the greatest British managers.

 

But THE greatest British manager (or THE greatest manager to have managed in a British league even)? Nope - for the reasons mentioned. Could he have been? Maybe.

I think there's a strong argument he is. I think there are a few people in the same boat. Robson isn't one of them though.

 

It depends how you define it, if it is purely by number of cups and titles, then more so, yes.

 

But the fact is if you define Fergy by those criteria then you must also define NUFC by those criteria, which makes us an unsuccessful and generally rubbish club (does Renton believe this? I guess he must).

 

Personally I don't believe either.

I think the case for Ferguson (to my mind) rests on his doing it at two different clubs. You also have to look at where both those clubs were before he arrived and how wildly succesful both were under his stewardship. He's also done it at a relatively small club and a huge one and you face two different sets of challenges and pressures with that. There are things he hasn't done but every manager has gaps in their cv you could point at.

As an aside it's an absolute disgrace Bob Paisley (another candidate) was never knighted.