Pope says condoms "increases the problem" of HIV in Africa

[Happy Face 29]

Pope Benedict XVI has said that handing out condoms is not the answer in the fight against HIV/Aids, as he makes his first visit to Africa as pontiff.

 

Speaking en route to Cameroon, he said distribution of condoms "increases the problem". The Vatican urges abstinence.

 

The Pope will also visit Angola on his week-long trip, where thousands are expected to attend open-air masses.

 

According to Vatican figures, the number of Catholics in Africa has been rising steadily in recent years.

 

Baptised Catholics made up 17% of the African population in 2006, compared with 12% in 1978, the Vatican says.

 

Pope Benedict said on the eve of his trip that he wanted to wrap his arms around the entire continent, with "its painful wounds, its enormous potential and hopes".

 

Before arriving in Cameroon's capital, Yaounde, the Pope said HIV/Aids was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem".

 

The solution lies in a "spiritual and human awakening" and "friendship for those who suffer", the AFP news agency quotes him as saying.

 

Sexual abstinence

 

While in Africa, the pontiff is expected to talk to young people about the Aids epidemic and explain to them why the Catholic Church recommends sexual abstinence as the best way to prevent the spread of the disease.

 

Cameroon has seen excited preparations for the Pope's visit

 

He gave a similar message to African bishops who visited the Vatican in 2005, when he told them that abstinence and fidelity, not condoms, were the means to tackle the epidemic.

 

The BBC's Caroline Duffield, in Cameroon, says people in Yaounde are energetically sweeping and cleaning everywhere in preparation for Pope Benedict's visit.

 

The Pope will stay in Yaounde until Friday, where he will meet bishops from all over Africa who will be taking part in a meeting at the Vatican later this year to discuss the Church's role in Africa.

 

In Angola, which is still recovering from 27 years of civil war, Pope Benedict will meet diplomats posted in Luanda and is expected to urge the international community not to abandon Africa.

 

The pontiff is also due to hold private talks with political leaders in the two countries, both of which have been accused of corruption and squandering revenues from natural resources.

 

Speaking to pilgrims in St Peter's Square before setting out on his journey, the Pope said he wanted to reach out to the victims of hunger, disease, injustice, fratricidal conflicts and the violence afflicting adults and children alike in most parts of Africa.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7947460.stm

 

He wants stabbing in the face the evil scum sucking fucking cunt.

[Renton 18092]

Utterly contemptable and indefensible comment, but so predictable. The Pope's comment that was, not HF's.

[ewerk 26889]

The problem is that if he recommends using condoms then it goes against everything the Catholic church has been saying for hundreds of years and to do that would be a seismic shift in church policy. Sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.

[donaldstott 0]

Pope Benedict XVI has said that handing out condoms is not the answer in the fight against HIV/Aids, as he makes his first visit to Africa as pontiff.

 

Speaking en route to Cameroon, he said distribution of condoms "increases the problem". The Vatican urges abstinence.

 

The Pope will also visit Angola on his week-long trip, where thousands are expected to attend open-air masses.

 

According to Vatican figures, the number of Catholics in Africa has been rising steadily in recent years.

 

Baptised Catholics made up 17% of the African population in 2006, compared with 12% in 1978, the Vatican says.

 

Pope Benedict said on the eve of his trip that he wanted to wrap his arms around the entire continent, with "its painful wounds, its enormous potential and hopes".

 

Before arriving in Cameroon's capital, Yaounde, the Pope said HIV/Aids was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem".

 

The solution lies in a "spiritual and human awakening" and "friendship for those who suffer", the AFP news agency quotes him as saying.

 

Sexual abstinence

 

While in Africa, the pontiff is expected to talk to young people about the Aids epidemic and explain to them why the Catholic Church recommends sexual abstinence as the best way to prevent the spread of the disease.

 

Cameroon has seen excited preparations for the Pope's visit

 

He gave a similar message to African bishops who visited the Vatican in 2005, when he told them that abstinence and fidelity, not condoms, were the means to tackle the epidemic.

 

The BBC's Caroline Duffield, in Cameroon, says people in Yaounde are energetically sweeping and cleaning everywhere in preparation for Pope Benedict's visit.

 

The Pope will stay in Yaounde until Friday, where he will meet bishops from all over Africa who will be taking part in a meeting at the Vatican later this year to discuss the Church's role in Africa.

 

In Angola, which is still recovering from 27 years of civil war, Pope Benedict will meet diplomats posted in Luanda and is expected to urge the international community not to abandon Africa.

 

The pontiff is also due to hold private talks with political leaders in the two countries, both of which have been accused of corruption and squandering revenues from natural resources.

 

Speaking to pilgrims in St Peter's Square before setting out on his journey, the Pope said he wanted to reach out to the victims of hunger, disease, injustice, fratricidal conflicts and the violence afflicting adults and children alike in most parts of Africa.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7947460.stm

 

He wants stabbing in the face the evil scum sucking fucking cunt.

 

You're going directly to hell, do not pass go, do not collect £200.

[donaldstott 0]

The problem is that if he recommends using condoms then it goes against everything the Catholic church has been saying for hundreds of years and to do that would be a seismic shift in church policy. Sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.

 

What he said..

[Renton 18092]

The problem is that if he recommends using condoms then it goes against everything the Catholic church has been saying for hundreds of years and to do that would be a seismic shift in church policy. Sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.

 

The catholic church has been shifting its position on a variety of things since Galilleo. Adapt or die. Personally I'd prefer the latter and moronic comments like this will hasten it.

[ewerk 26889]

The problem is that if he recommends using condoms then it goes against everything the Catholic church has been saying for hundreds of years and to do that would be a seismic shift in church policy. Sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.

 

The catholic church has been shifting its position on a variety of things since Galilleo. Adapt or die. Personally I'd prefer the latter and moronic comments like this will hasten it.

 

Well there are certain things like the importance of life that they can't, or rather won't, shift on.

 

Personally I'd rather they showed a bit more respect for the importance of the lives of the people who are already on this earth than worrying about unfertilised sperm.

[Guest alex]

I see this as being vastly different to say, abortion, which (although I don't agree with the Catholic church's stance) deals with the issue of a loss of a life. Whereas I don't see that this does (i.e. by using a condom). Also, to preach abstinence is completely unrealistic.

[ewerk 26889]

I see this as being vastly different to say, abortion, which (although I don't agree with the Catholic church's stance) deals with the issue of a loss of a life. Whereas I don't see that this does (i.e. by using a condom). Also, to preach abstinence is completely unrealistic.

 

Well it is and it isn't. Abortions are ok if the mother's life is in danger but condoms are still not allowed even though it is, in effect, condemning many thousands of people to a life with HIV. Granted, the link is slightly more tenuous but the same principle should apply. The problem is that the church has an alternative to the use of condoms but as you say, it's not realistic.

Edited March 18, 2009 by ewerk

[Renton 18092]

I see this as being vastly different to say, abortion, which (although I don't agree with the Catholic church's stance) deals with the issue of a loss of a life. Whereas I don't see that this does (i.e. by using a condom). Also, to preach abstinence is completely unrealistic.

 

Every sperm is sacred.......

 

On the one hand the dogmatic stance of the Catholic church is largely an irrelevance to people in the Western world. Plenty of people describe themselves as catholic, go to church, and just ignore what the church hierarchy says. On the other hand shit like this might have a real negative effect on the Developing world so is just inexcusable imo, as Ewerk says just say nothing would be a better policy.

 

Anyway, the Catholic church is basically in terminal decline in the UK. However, its place is just being filled instead with Evangelical churches with even more nutty views, or other extremist religions like fundamentalist Islam. This wasn't supposed to happen here in the 21st century.

[Guest alex]

I see this as being vastly different to say, abortion, which (although I don't agree with the Catholic church's stance) deals with the issue of a loss of a life. Whereas I don't see that this does (i.e. by using a condom). Also, to preach abstinence is completely unrealistic.

 

Well it is and it isn't. Abortions are ok if the mother's life is in danger but condoms are still not allowed even though it is, in effect, condemning many thousands of people to a life with HIV. Granted, the link is slightly more tenuous but the same principle should apply. The problem is that the church has an alternative to the use of condoms but as you say, it's not realistic.

I meant how I see it rather than how the Catholic Church views it.

And what happens to all the Pope's spunk anyway?

[Renton 18092]

I see this as being vastly different to say, abortion, which (although I don't agree with the Catholic church's stance) deals with the issue of a loss of a life. Whereas I don't see that this does (i.e. by using a condom). Also, to preach abstinence is completely unrealistic.

 

Well it is and it isn't. Abortions are ok if the mother's life is in danger but condoms are still not allowed even though it is, in effect, condemning many thousands of people to a life with HIV. Granted, the link is slightly more tenuous but the same principle should apply. The problem is that the church has an alternative to the use of condoms but as you say, it's not realistic.

 

Regarding contraception, is the withdrawal method allowed or using a calender to predict fertility? I have a vague memory of this being discussed when I was at school, it just seems like pure insanity to me now.

[Toonpack 7098]

I see this as being vastly different to say, abortion, which (although I don't agree with the Catholic church's stance) deals with the issue of a loss of a life. Whereas I don't see that this does (i.e. by using a condom). Also, to preach abstinence is completely unrealistic.

 

Well it is and it isn't. Abortions are ok if the mother's life is in danger but condoms are still not allowed even though it is, in effect, condemning many thousands of people to a life with HIV. Granted, the link is slightly more tenuous but the same principle should apply. The problem is that the church has an alternative to the use of condoms but as you say, it's not realistic.

I meant how I see it rather than how the Catholic Church views it.

And what happens to all the Pope's spunk anyway?

 

He has a Papal receptacle for it, it's got a special name which is...................erm............Oh aye! I remember, it's called choirboys

[NJS 4017]

Regarding contraception, is the withdrawal method allowed or using a calender to predict fertility? I have a vague memory of this being discussed when I was at school, it just seems like pure insanity to me now.

 

It is - theres a document they produce which I read once which explains why they oppose "artificial" contraception which displays a lack of understanding of biology and evolution so profound it makes believing in geocentricity look eminently sensible.

 

As for his comments I'm with the "well he would say that" camp and I've come to relish any such idiocy - it can only harm their cause.

[ewerk 26889]

I see this as being vastly different to say, abortion, which (although I don't agree with the Catholic church's stance) deals with the issue of a loss of a life. Whereas I don't see that this does (i.e. by using a condom). Also, to preach abstinence is completely unrealistic.

 

Well it is and it isn't. Abortions are ok if the mother's life is in danger but condoms are still not allowed even though it is, in effect, condemning many thousands of people to a life with HIV. Granted, the link is slightly more tenuous but the same principle should apply. The problem is that the church has an alternative to the use of condoms but as you say, it's not realistic.

 

Regarding contraception, is the withdrawal method allowed or using a calender to predict fertility? I have a vague memory of this being discussed when I was at school, it just seems like pure insanity to me now.

 

Pulling out is ok, however cumming on her tits is still a sin, as is cumming anywhere that won't have a chance of creating life.

[Guest alex]

The general stance is even more ridiculous when you consider population growth is an even greater issue in Africa / the third world anyway.

[Renton 18092]

Out of curiousity I've just looked up some of these issues on some catholic forums. There's a debate going on about whether female masturbation is a sin or not because no 'seed' is wasted.

 

Male masturbation is definitely a mortal sin btw. I fear for Jimbo's soul more than most.

[NJS 4017]

Out of curiousity I've just looked up some of these issues on some catholic forums. There's a debate going on about whether female masturbation is a sin or not because no 'seed' is wasted.

 

Male masturbation is definitely a mortal sin btw. I fear for Jimbo's soul more than most.

 

 

A general rule of thumb (ooh err) when it comes to the Abrahamic religions is that women don't matter in the scheme of things.

 

Actually I should add that they actually believed that the "seed" contained everything needed and a women was only an incubator - they didn't realise there were ova.

Edited March 18, 2009 by NJS

[Papa Lazaru 0]

Happy Face pretty much covered my feelings on the pope and as people have said it was so predictable he'd come out with this utter shite. He just makes me ever more satisfied with being an atheist!

 

To be honest somebody who has never and will never have sex should fuck off and stop telling everyone else how and when they can and can't do it!

[JawD 31]

It is correct like that our current church isnt so much in decline, but is being replaced. Well, not replaced but the Evangelical types (largely African) are growing in popularity and spreading through Europe.

 

On the comment, I'd agree its better they say nothing

 

However, I don't mind sticking my neck out and saying those that think the Church is generally old hat and needs to be binned are totally in the wrong. Society, generally, is fucked. If more people took heed of the teachings in the Bible we might stand half a chance. I'm not saying they should even believe in a God etc but at least take note of the overall messages. The main being imo a total lack of respect for other people at the moment, the one thing the church in large promotes (love/respect for others etc).

 

The Church (any) is ran by people who by their very nature of fucking stupid at times

[Guest alex]

It is correct like that our current church isnt so much in decline, but is being replaced. Well, not replaced but the Evangelical types (largely African) are growing in popularity and spreading through Europe.

 

On the comment, I'd agree its better they say nothing

 

However, I don't mind sticking my neck out and saying those that think the Church is generally old hat and needs to be binned are totally in the wrong. Society, generally, is fucked. If more people took heed of the teachings in the Bible we might stand half a chance. I'm not saying they should even believe in a God etc but at least take note of the overall messages. The main being imo a total lack of respect for other people at the moment, the one thing the church in large promotes (love/respect for others etc).

 

The Church (any) is ran by people who by their very nature of fucking stupid at times

That implies society was in some way better when the influence of the church was greater in the UK. I think that's almost as big a fallacy as central tenets of Christian faith.

[NJS 4017]

It is correct like that our current church isnt so much in decline, but is being replaced. Well, not replaced but the Evangelical types (largely African) are growing in popularity and spreading through Europe.

 

On the comment, I'd agree its better they say nothing

 

However, I don't mind sticking my neck out and saying those that think the Church is generally old hat and needs to be binned are totally in the wrong. Society, generally, is fucked. If more people took heed of the teachings in the Bible we might stand half a chance. I'm not saying they should even believe in a God etc but at least take note of the overall messages. The main being imo a total lack of respect for other people at the moment, the one thing the church in large promotes (love/respect for others etc).

 

The Church (any) is ran by people who by their very nature of fucking stupid at times

 

Point me to the persentage of the bible which advocates anything decent which isn't contradicted totally elsewhere

 

Traditional "christian" values are just the condensation of the pervading morality of any civilised society imo.

[Renton 18092]

The benefits of the church in the 21st century is a hugely moot point but I think comments like those the Pope have made show how damaging it can be. And this is a relatively benign church compared to others. Personally I could never bring myself to believe such a bunch of cobblers that the church professes even if it did benefit soceity (which I don't accept).

 

Incidentally, there's a thread on that catholic forum I mentioned on the threat of over-population and how this might relate to contraception. The bottom line is the Catholic church don't accept it is or ever will be a possibility. I couldn't be arsed to read up about all the reasons why but from scanning the responses this belief seemed to stem from the fact Malthus was wrong (ignoring all much more recent data) and that the apocalypse is nigh in any case. Oh yes, apparently it's the female contraceptive pill that is the cause of all declining fish stocks too, not over fishing.

[NJS 4017]

Incidentally, there's a thread on that catholic forum I mentioned on the threat of over-population and how this might relate to contraception. The bottom line is the Catholic church don't accept it is or ever will be a possibility. I couldn't be arsed to read up about all the reasons why but from scanning the responses this belief seemed to stem from the fact Malthus was wrong (ignoring all much more recent data) and that the apocalypse is nigh in any case. Oh yes, apparently it's the female contraceptive pill that is the cause of all declining fish stocks too, not over fishing.

 

I find the usual "God will provide" argument which I've read in the past particulary odious when it comes to over-population but I didn't realise there was an appetite for the rapture among that many catholics.

 

As an aside I've been browsing the documentary channels on Sky lately and always seem to stray too far into 580+ (God territory) where they become very rapture focused and I find myself drawn in by the depths of insanity on view. Apparently the credit crunch is another sign from Revelation.

[Guest alex]

The author of the Book of Revelation had to suffering some form of mental illness. Probably brought about by spending too long alone in a cave in Patmos.