Allardyce hopes to capture £2.5m Smith as Newcastle look to slash wages

[The Fish 9034]

samba, the problem is mate, we've seen what Sam Allardyce does from both sides of the coin. We slated him at Bolton for his tactics, but respected his results, he came to us and had the same tactics, but didn't get the results... A manager can claim things went against him if he gets performances, but no results and he can ask for time to build his squad if he's not getting performances but the points are on the board. Not much you can say for a manager who doesn't get either.

 

Couple of season of his dross and you'll be calling for his head. I promise.

[bigchrissamba 0]

I think I'll believe it when he gets injured holding up a Rovers scarf at Ewood Park. Our last manager may have been tempted but I just don't see it happening now.

You seem a good lad and i bear no ill will to you but fuckin hell man - he is gonna knacker your team

Like he knackered Bolton right?

 

I bear no ill will to any of you - but fuck me there's plenty on here who know fuck all about football.

 

Oh, and this is highly unlikely to happen. Thankfully.

So you think Bolton were a great team to pay money to watch then? Fuck that shit, they were shockingly boring to watch. He continued that with us by buying shite like Smith he'll do the same to you lot it's his style boring wank long ball football.

Fucking hell, Newcastle fans in the Championship being condescending about a side who had multiple top 10 finishes (and I fucking hate Bolton as a rule).

 

This is one of the reasons other fans call you deluded, you think you have some god given right to watch champagne football.

 

Which of these two scenarios is more entertaining?

 

a) Watching your team play a direct "long ball" style of football, win games, give you something to celebrate a lot of weekends, hold their own against some top teams and give you something to be proud of..

 

or

 

Watching your team attempt to play pretty football, pass the ball in nice triangles which dont really go anyway, scoring a few beautifully executed team goals but still losing most of their matches and having their leaky defence obliterated by any half decent attack?

 

I'd rather pay money to watch my team win and do well, than watch my team do what your team have been doing. Or what West Brom have been doing, since they seem to be the buzzword for pretty but failing football.

 

After that happens, then a team can talk about the luxuries of pretty football. But when you've got little money to spend like us and Bolton did, finding effective players who fit into a side playing good football on the cheap can be hard to find. Still, if he brings talent like Okocha and Anelka to Ewood, we'll be happy enough.

[ewerk 26550]

Which of these two scenarios is more entertaining?

 

a) Watching your team play a direct "long ball" style of football, win games, give you something to celebrate a lot of weekends, hold their own against some top teams and give you something to be proud of..

 

or

 

Watching your team attempt to play pretty football, pass the ball in nice triangles which dont really go anyway, scoring a few beautifully executed team goals but still losing most of their matches and having their leaky defence obliterated by any half decent attack?

 

The point we're making is that we had neither under Allardyce.

[bigchrissamba 0]

samba, the problem is mate, we've seen what Sam Allardyce does from both sides of the coin. We slated him at Bolton for his tactics, but respected his results, he came to us and had the same tactics, but didn't get the results... A manager can claim things went against him if he gets performances, but no results and he can ask for time to build his squad if he's not getting performances but the points are on the board. Not much you can say for a manager who doesn't get either.

 

Couple of season of his dross and you'll be calling for his head. I promise.

You finished 5 points from relegation the season before.

 

He was 8 points from relegation in January when he left you.

 

He didn't do great, probably slightly below average, but you should have given him more than 6 months FFS. I bet you're sick of hearing the "if you'd stuck to Sam you wouldn't have been in this mess", but that's only because it's so blindingly obvious to the rest of us it's not even funny.

[bigchrissamba 0]

Which of these two scenarios is more entertaining?

 

a) Watching your team play a direct "long ball" style of football, win games, give you something to celebrate a lot of weekends, hold their own against some top teams and give you something to be proud of..

 

or

 

Watching your team attempt to play pretty football, pass the ball in nice triangles which dont really go anyway, scoring a few beautifully executed team goals but still losing most of their matches and having their leaky defence obliterated by any half decent attack?

 

The point we're making is that we had neither under Allardyce.

You were desperately poor the season before too. If you'd given him a little longer he might have produced the first scenario. You shouldve given him the benefit of the doubt given he'd shown what he could do at another club. God knows your club needed stability at that point.

Edited June 4, 2009 by bigchrissamba

[The Fish 9034]

fwiw, traditionally we're a club that does better than Bolton in the Premier League.

 

But you're right aren't you, now that we're in the championship we're completely unable to recognise shit football. Thanks for that... It's a good job the only people allowed to recognise shit football are all Barcelona and Man U fans. I take you're equally not permitted to know what's shit and what's not, after all you've not exactly set the world alight yourselves.

 

muppet.

 

I'm telling you, you're not going to play long ball and win things. You're going to play turgid football, but the bright side of all this is not a lot of people are going to suffer because of Fat Sam. Maybe 19,000 every other week... if the X Factor's not on tv.

[ewerk 26550]

We certainly weren't expecting 'champagne' football but the dross he was serving up was unbelievably bad to watch week in, week out. Playing for a point against Derby being an example of how much ambition he had.

 

Yes we were shite before he took over but he didn't improve us any and that's why he had to go.

[bigchrissamba 0]

We certainly weren't expecting 'champagne' football but the dross he was serving up was unbelievably bad to watch week in, week out. Playing for a point against Derby being an example of how much ambition he had.

 

Yes we were shite before he took over but he didn't improve us any and that's why he had to go.

Anyone can pick out individual results.

 

He didn't improve you after 6 months (well you were further from the relegation slots but not that much further granted), so therefore he had to go.

 

Jesus, if only every club had the same thinking!

 

[The Fish 9034]

Add to the fact that Ashley wanted his own man in charge (for better or worse). Who knows what the world would look like if Ashely hadn't come in at all. We may be sitting 17th in the Premiership with Fat Sam's neanderthal football securing that extra point at home to Fulham (ffs)

 

... or (what's more likely) we'd have sunk without a trace a season earlier, still have crippling debts (for Ashely is wiping £100m off, no?) AND had to suffer the ignominy of being in the Championship with a manager who we fucking hate.

[ewerk 26550]

We certainly weren't expecting 'champagne' football but the dross he was serving up was unbelievably bad to watch week in, week out. Playing for a point against Derby being an example of how much ambition he had.

 

Yes we were shite before he took over but he didn't improve us any and that's why he had to go.

Anyone can pick out individual results.

 

He didn't improve you after 6 months (well you were further from the relegation slots but not that much further granted), so therefore he had to go.

 

Jesus, if only every club had the same thinking!

 

 

Well if we hadn't sacked him then you wouldn't have him now so you should be glad we did.

 

If you want to post something constructive then please do, if you want to take the piss then kindly fuck off.

[bigchrissamba 0]

fwiw, traditionally we're a club that does better than Bolton in the Premier League.

 

But you're right aren't you, now that we're in the championship we're completely unable to recognise shit football. Thanks for that... It's a good job the only people allowed to recognise shit football are all Barcelona and Man U fans. I take you're equally not permitted to know what's shit and what's not, after all you've not exactly set the world alight yourselves.

 

muppet.

 

I'm telling you, you're not going to play long ball and win things. You're going to play turgid football, but the bright side of all this is not a lot of people are going to suffer because of Fat Sam. Maybe 19,000 every other week... if the X Factor's not on tv.

 

What rubbish.

 

We're not going to win things full stop, apart from the chance of the League Cup, possibly the FA Cup if lots of the favourites get knocked out early. That goes the same for most of the clubs in this league.

 

But if we win matches, we stand a greater chance of winning things. Was I imagining Sam's Bolton side in the League Cup winning 3-2 at Anfield and 5-2 vs Villa in the semi final? Granted they lost in the final but that pretty much negates your viewpoint doesn't it?

 

And we get about 22,000 in a 125,000 catchment area (without the promotions etc which get a few more in). You got 48,000 in an 800,000 catchment area. I know what's more impressive. It has very little to do with the quality of the football.

[bigchrissamba 0]

Add to the fact that Ashley wanted his own man in charge (for better or worse). Who knows what the world would look like if Ashely hadn't come in at all. We may be sitting 17th in the Premiership with Fat Sam's neanderthal football securing that extra point at home to Fulham (ffs)

 

... or (what's more likely) we'd have sunk without a trace a season earlier, still have crippling debts (for Ashely is wiping £100m off, no?) AND had to suffer the ignominy of being in the Championship with a manager who we fucking hate.

So you would have gone from being 8 points clear of the drop zone in January to getting relegated that very same season under Sam? Despite the fact he'd been keeping Bolton in the league for years and kept us up this season?

[bigchrissamba 0]

We certainly weren't expecting 'champagne' football but the dross he was serving up was unbelievably bad to watch week in, week out. Playing for a point against Derby being an example of how much ambition he had.

 

Yes we were shite before he took over but he didn't improve us any and that's why he had to go.

Anyone can pick out individual results.

 

He didn't improve you after 6 months (well you were further from the relegation slots but not that much further granted), so therefore he had to go.

 

Jesus, if only every club had the same thinking!

 

 

Well if we hadn't sacked him then you wouldn't have him now so you should be glad we did.

 

If you want to post something constructive then please do, if you want to take the piss then kindly fuck off.

I'm only taking the piss when greeted with such ridiculous logic that a manager has to go after 6 months if he doesnt markedly improve a team.

[ewerk 26550]

Add to the fact that Ashley wanted his own man in charge (for better or worse). Who knows what the world would look like if Ashely hadn't come in at all. We may be sitting 17th in the Premiership with Fat Sam's neanderthal football securing that extra point at home to Fulham (ffs)

 

... or (what's more likely) we'd have sunk without a trace a season earlier, still have crippling debts (for Ashely is wiping £100m off, no?) AND had to suffer the ignominy of being in the Championship with a manager who we fucking hate.

So you would have gone from being 8 points clear of the drop zone in January to getting relegated that very same season under Sam? Despite the fact he'd been keeping Bolton in the league for years and kept us up this season?

 

In Allardyce's last 12 games we took 9 points from a possible 36, things were going down the shitter.

[ewerk 26550]

I'm only taking the piss when greeted with such ridiculous logic that a manager has to go after 6 months if he doesnt markedly improve a team.

 

See my above post.

[Howay 12480]

Fucking hell, Newcastle fans in the Championship being condescending about a side who had multiple top 10 finishes (and I fucking hate Bolton as a rule).

 

This is one of the reasons other fans call you deluded, you think you have some god given right to watch champagne football.

 

Which of these two scenarios is more entertaining?

 

a) Watching your team play a direct "long ball" style of football, win games, give you something to celebrate a lot of weekends, hold their own against some top teams and give you something to be proud of..

 

or

 

Watching your team attempt to play pretty football, pass the ball in nice triangles which dont really go anyway, scoring a few beautifully executed team goals but still losing most of their matches and having their leaky defence obliterated by any half decent attack?

 

I'd rather pay money to watch my team win and do well, than watch my team do what your team have been doing. Or what West Brom have been doing, since they seem to be the buzzword for pretty but failing football.

 

After that happens, then a team can talk about the luxuries of pretty football. But when you've got little money to spend like us and Bolton did, finding effective players who fit into a side playing good football on the cheap can be hard to find. Still, if he brings talent like Okocha and Anelka to Ewood, we'll be happy enough.

My point is I'm PAYING to watch football, haddaway with all this stereotypical 'you think you've the god given right to play amazing football' bollocks it's not about that we just want to watch decent football be played how it was meant to be played not all this OPTA stats shite. Your point A sounds like a fucking blast so Bolton fans pay all that money to watch horrendous football and hang about mid table winning nowt you would be happy with that in all honesty? I can be as condescending as I like about Bolton they are nothing a total non entity of a club there's nothing impressive about top 10 finishes in all honesty unless it's the top 4.

Where's the option for a style like Aston Villa? decent entertaining footy that isn't a deluded style to aim for surely? yourselves were a decent team to watch only recently, yeah West Brom do have the label you describe but like us their playing staff are fucking bollocks that's why it doesn't work for them.

Not sure if that was all cohesive and readable because I'm shattered

And we get about 22,000 in a 125,000 catchment area (without the promotions etc which get a few more in). You got 48,000 in an 800,000 catchment area. I know what's more impressive. It has very little to do with the quality of the football.

Highest ever average attendance for a team relegated from the prem

Edited June 4, 2009 by Barton7

[The Fish 9034]

If you can't see how shit we were under Allardyce it shows how little information you have to go on.

 

Allardyce is not a great manager, at best he'll keep a club in the Premier League. Now, that might be all the ambition you can muster, but we like to aim high. It's not a delusion, it's not arrogance, it's ambition. We ache to be back up there scrapping with Man U for the title, playing good football and winning in style. However, we're not so insane to think that it's anything less than a Herculean task. We're so far away from the side that twatted Man U 5-0 it's not even funny. The whole nature of the game has changed, so to return to the spotlight will take innovation, guts and heavy investment.

 

Thing with Geordies (despite what the media paint, we're a savvy bunch. We know the failings of our club, we know what needs to be done and we're willing to crawl over broken glass to push the club in the right direction.

 

Do you truly TRULY believe in your heart of hearts Newcastle fans would have agreed to employ Roeder, Souness, fucking KINNEAR?! yet those are three of the fellas who've got us in the trouble we're in now. I ommit Allardyce because at the time, we were willing to see what he could do, we respected his results at Bolton and were eager to see his much vaunted scientific modern approach and how it would work at St James. What we got was a return to Long ball, mind numbingly narrow minded football, bizarre team selection and god awful signings.

 

If we'd had our way, Robson wouldn't have gone when he did, Keegan certainly wouldn't have gone in the first instance, we'd never have employed the three I mention above and I doubt we'd have gone for Allardyce. If the fans had their way there is no FUCKING way we'd be in the position we find ourselves.

 

We don't say "Roder out" because w're capricious, we say Roeder out because EVEN laymen such as ourselves can see he hasn't the tactical nous or inspirational qualities you need in a gaffer.

 

Anyway I've rambled on long enough. Suffice to say, when Allrdyce has you for a season or so... come back, take up a megaphone and tell us at great volume how great he is. Bet you all the money in my pocket against all the money in yours it'll be a quiet day for you and I.

[Kitman 2188]

This is one of the reasons other fans call you deluded, you think you have some god given right to watch champagne football.

 

Mate, you won't get much patience on here if you start repeating stereotypes put about by the press.

 

If you speak to grass root fans, not the mongs on Sky Sports, you'll find that most people don't want champagne football or anything approaching it and there's no expectation of winning things. We want stability, an owner who invests and a team that shows progress year on year.

 

Sam's football was quite simply appalling to watch. The team showed none of his supposed virtues and was clearly going backwards. His Bolton teams could mix it up between long and short football, were agggressive and well organised. Our team played hoof ball, was badly organised, the set pieces were a joke, couldn't score, couldn't keep the ball, leaked goals for fun, was dispirited and went to places like Derby aiming not to lose and failing.

 

Sam was totally out of his depth and responded by bullshitting and making excuses. He had clearly lost the dressing room, training was acknowledged by the players to be a shambles and there were complaints of lack of fitness. We still had injury problems depsite his legion of assistants.

 

He had a terrible record against the weaker teams in the league, the majority of which we'd played by the time he was sacked with the difficult games to go. It's not fanciful at all to say we would have been relegated under his watch and he would have been sacked imo by most clubs.

 

I understand how things look to the outsider but you honestly don't understand just how bad things were under his leadership. I'd bet you didn't watch most of the matches at the time. Giving him more time wouldn't have solved a thing. He was hopelessy out of his depth and had given up by the time he got the bullet.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Kitman

[Matt 0]

We don't say "Roder out" because w're capricious, we say Roeder out because EVEN laymen such as ourselves can see he hasn't the tactical nous or inspirational qualities you need in a gaffer

 

There was very little murmur against Roeder- everyone knew he was out of his depth. The frustration was very much directed at the man who had appointed him, especially having rolled out Souness previously.

 

Samba- hindsight is 20/20 and you have to take the departure of Allardyce in perspective. I'd say the mood around the ground was one of frustration and confusion that tactics were costing us points unecessarily (see your 2-2 draw against Man City at home for example). Call for Allardyce to go? I don't think there were, personally, but there was certainly a huge amount of frustration and discontent. Our board, rather naively, took this to be the cue to change manager without having considered who could be brought in as a replacement. This feller had just spent £200m on a football club and it wasn't proving much fun to watch- I have no doubt that without the regime change upstairs, our financial state then, paradoxically, would have much suited Allardyce's abilities to get the best out of a modestly-assembled squad.

 

Regardless of all this, he still thought Alan Smith was worth £6m. I don't need to remove any delusional champagne-football blinkers to tell you he isn't worth a tenner.

[Tom 13883]

800k catchment area

[bigchrissamba 0]

If you can't see how shit we were under Allardyce it shows how little information you have to go on.

 

Allardyce is not a great manager, at best he'll keep a club in the Premier League. Now, that might be all the ambition you can muster, but we like to aim high. It's not a delusion, it's not arrogance, it's ambition. We ache to be back up there scrapping with Man U for the title, playing good football and winning in style. However, we're not so insane to think that it's anything less than a Herculean task. We're so far away from the side that twatted Man U 5-0 it's not even funny. The whole nature of the game has changed, so to return to the spotlight will take innovation, guts and heavy investment.

 

Thing with Geordies (despite what the media paint, we're a savvy bunch. We know the failings of our club, we know what needs to be done and we're willing to crawl over broken glass to push the club in the right direction.

 

Do you truly TRULY believe in your heart of hearts Newcastle fans would have agreed to employ Roeder, Souness, fucking KINNEAR?! yet those are three of the fellas who've got us in the trouble we're in now. I ommit Allardyce because at the time, we were willing to see what he could do, we respected his results at Bolton and were eager to see his much vaunted scientific modern approach and how it would work at St James. What we got was a return to Long ball, mind numbingly narrow minded football, bizarre team selection and god awful signings.

 

If we'd had our way, Robson wouldn't have gone when he did, Keegan certainly wouldn't have gone in the first instance, we'd never have employed the three I mention above and I doubt we'd have gone for Allardyce. If the fans had their way there is no FUCKING way we'd be in the position we find ourselves.

 

We don't say "Roder out" because w're capricious, we say Roeder out because EVEN laymen such as ourselves can see he hasn't the tactical nous or inspirational qualities you need in a gaffer.

 

Anyway I've rambled on long enough. Suffice to say, when Allrdyce has you for a season or so... come back, take up a megaphone and tell us at great volume how great he is. Bet you all the money in my pocket against all the money in yours it'll be a quiet day for you and I.

That's the problem with you though. You needed stability at that time more than anything. You singularly failed to realise (and still fail to realise) that no one manager was going to take you from your state post Roeder, to a state where you'd be up there challenging with United again. You failed to realise football changed completely in the 10 years from 1997-2007. If you thought any club could get from where you were (5 points from relegation after Roeder) to even come close to challenging for the title in anything less than 7 or so years, without a Man City like cash injection, then you successfully satisfy all the deluded Geordie stereotypes. You want the one manager who will take you on that journey, when in fact you probably need a succession of managers.

 

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

And no, we don't just strive to stay in the League. We've seen two more trophies this generation than you folks have, we finished top 10 the previous 3 seasons to this one (and has top 10 form in the 21 games that Allardyce took charge in) and have been finishing above your team for the last 4 or 5 seasons. We have every reason to believe we should be challenging amongst the top 10 (though new money for the likes of City and Villa makes this task difficult), and considering we've bettered that a good few seasons and won a domestic trophy it's not an unrealistic aim. You guys need to put those ambitions of being up there with United to bed, since it's about as likely to happen for you as it is for us.

[Park Life 70]

Our delusion was wanting good football when we couldn't even play survival football.

 

THREAD CLOSED.

[bigchrissamba 0]

800k catchment area

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyneside

 

Sorry, 880k. Unless you want to name any other League clubs on Tyneside?

[Tom 13883]

Try 271,600.

[Matt 0]

That's the problem with you though. You needed stability at that time more than anything. You singularly failed to realise (and still fail to realise) that no one manager was going to take you from your state post Roeder, to a state where you'd be up there challenging with United again.

 

You've not got the hint. No-one in their right mind was ever expecting that. Being on their coat-tails in 2002-03 was nosebleed stuff at times.

 

 

You failed to realise football changed completely in the 10 years from 1997-2007. If you thought any club could get from where you were (5 points from relegation after Roeder) to even come close to challenging for the title in anything less than 7 or so years, without a Man City like cash injection, then you successfully satisfy all the deluded Geordie stereotypes.

 

Who mentioned titles?

 

 

You guys need to put those ambitions of being up there with United to bed, since it's about as likely to happen for you as it is for us.

 

Ok I give up.