shakermaker 0 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Do they state how they would hinder the police ? It just may mean they will use the law to stop the police surveilance breaching the law or used for strengthening the case about anti-terror law being abused by the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Which is totally different to peaceful protest as was your previous analogy about a bag-snatcher. I don't see the need for the analogy in either case. These lot are about something entirely different, i.e. the right to privacy and peaceful protest. What they're doing is 'asking for it' but I see that as making them pretty brave rather than troublesome arseholes. The police need to be kept in check and pressure groups like this are what this is all about and they're useful in society even if you don't agree with them entirely imo. I have no problem with anyone filming the police and keeping them honest. My problem comes with their stated aim of taking action to hinder police surveilence, which I see as an effective tool rather than an infringement of anyone's rights. I don't see how you can distinguish a peaceful protest from one that escalates and say that there should be no police presence at any protests. Back in August this protest was peaceful. This week it's resulted in crime.....could that have been a result of reduced policing after the negative press? Where did I say that? I said the opposite if anything. The bit after that is pure speculation which I can't really comment on either way. Sorry, not you, they, as in the police...or Fitwatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Which is totally different to peaceful protest as was your previous analogy about a bag-snatcher. I don't see the need for the analogy in either case. These lot are about something entirely different, i.e. the right to privacy and peaceful protest. What they're doing is 'asking for it' but I see that as making them pretty brave rather than troublesome arseholes. The police need to be kept in check and pressure groups like this are what this is all about and they're useful in society even if you don't agree with them entirely imo. I have no problem with anyone filming the police and keeping them honest. My problem comes with their stated aim of taking action to hinder police surveilence, which I see as an effective tool rather than an infringement of anyone's rights. I don't see how you can distinguish a peaceful protest from one that escalates and say that there should be no police presence at any protests. Back in August this protest was peaceful. This week it's resulted in crime.....could that have been a result of reduced policing after the negative press? Where did I say that? I said the opposite if anything. The bit after that is pure speculation which I can't really comment on either way. Sorry, not you, they, as in the police...or Fitwatch. Ok, wires crossed. I'm not sure Fitwatch are against any policing of demos though, are they? If so, I'd certainly disagree with them on that score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) Do they state how they would hinder the police ? It just may mean they will use the law to stop the police surveilance breaching the law or used for strengthening the case about anti-terror law being abused by the police. Even the dark side think it's dodgy... :icon_lol: Terrorist threat 'exploited to curb civil liberties' Security measures brought in after September 11 attacks 'undermined the rule of law' By Kim Sengupta Tuesday, 17 February 2009 EPA/ANGEL DIAZ Stella Rimington: British citizens 'live in fear and under a police state' ENLARGE Dame Stella Rimington, the former head of MI5, has accused the Government of exploiting public fear of terrorism to restrict civil liberties. Her comments came on the same day as a report published by international jurists suggested that Britain and America have led other countries in "actively undermining" the rule of law and "threatening civil liberties" in the guise of fighting terrorism. In an interview with the Spanish newspaper La Vanguardia, Dame Stella said that a series of increasingly draconian policies have led British citizens to "live in fear and under a police state". The 73-year-old said: "Since I have retired I feel more at liberty to be against certain decisions of the Government, especially the attempt to pass laws which interfere with people's privacy. "It would be better that the Government recognised that there are risks, rather than frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear and under a police state." Dame Stella, who became the first female head of MI5 in 1992 and held the position until 1996, has long been a vocal critic of the Government's plans to introduce ID cards and lengthen the amount of time terror suspects are held without charge to 42 days. In the interview yesterday, she also criticised the United States. She said: "The US has gone too far with Guantanamo and the tortures. MI5 does not do that. Furthermore it has achieved the opposite effect: there are more and more suicide terrorists finding a greater justification." The former MI5 chief chose to air her views on the same day as a three-year study called for urgent measures to stop the erosion of individual freedom by states and the abandoning of draconian measures brought on with the "War on Terror". Edited June 23, 2009 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) Do they state how they would hinder the police ? It just may mean they will use the law to stop the police surveilance breaching the law or used for strengthening the case about anti-terror law being abused by the police. "Who are FIT Watch? Fit Watch are a fluid group of people who have come together to resist and oppose the tactics of the Forward Intelligence Teams (cops who harass protesters). We aim to act in solidarity with each other, supporting campaigns by being at meetings and protests, making it harder for the police to film and gather intelligence. We hope to encourage a culture where their presence is not acceptable and to act when we see people being followed and harassed. We aim to make it harder for them to photograph and intimidate us by getting in the way of their cameras, taking photos and publishing as much information as we can about them on our blog. Some Ideas For Fitwatching FIT Watch can be done by anyone and can be as passive or as confrontational as you wish. Here are some tactics we have found to be effective: 1.Holding large banners in front of photographers. This is particularly effective with double sheets on sticks which can block a camera from a distance. This is the least confrontational way of blocking photography. 2.Taking photos of them. They really don’t like this but it isn’t illegal. With any photos it’s always good to either try and get the cop’s number in the shot, or note it down. 3.Following the FIT. Pick a team and tail them. Turn their tactics onto them – everything time they send a text message look over their shoulder, listen to their phone conversations, look at what they’re writing in their notebooks. 4.Watch out for group huddles, especially with senior officers and go and unobtrusively stand by them. This disrupts their briefings and there’s always the possibility you might learn some useful information. 5.Upload any information gathered about the FIT to www.fitwatch.blogspot.com or email to defycops@yahoo.co.uk 6.Put yourself physically in the way of the camera men by standing constantly in front of the camera and constantly shadow them. This has been the most confrontational tactic used so far and has therefore been the one people have been arrested for. However it has also been possible to do this without arrest, especially if there are larger numbers doings this." http://fitwatch.blogspot.com/ Edited June 23, 2009 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakermaker 0 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 re Happy face's fit watch statement. Pretty sure if I was intent on peaceful protest I'd do quite a bit of that aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Don't see a great deal wrong with that tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9050 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Fop, why do you live in a world of absolutes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 " On the 5th September 1981, the Welsh group “Women for Life on Earth” arrived on Greenham Common, Berkshire, England. They marched from Cardiff with the intention of challenging, by debate, the decision to site 96 Cruise nuclear missiles there. On arrival they delivered a letter to the Base Commander which among other things stated ‘We fear for the future of all our children and for the future of the living world which is the basis of all life’." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) I'm not sure Fitwatch are against any policing of demos though, are they? If so, I'd certainly disagree with them on that score. We hope to encourage a culture where their presence is not acceptable Don't see a great deal wrong with that tbh. Edited June 23, 2009 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'm not sure Fitwatch are against any policing of demos though, are they? If so, I'd certainly disagree with them on that score. We hope to encourage a culture where their presence is not acceptable Don't see a great deal wrong with that tbh. I think they're clearly talking about FIT specifically and not police in general at demos. Although I can see the argument for surveillance at certain demonstrations I'm closer to the stance in their statement than the widespread filming that currently takes place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 A rare sighting of Fop?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) Sadly Nicos gives away all the hallmarks of the victim displaying as he is displacement behavior and thoughts. But in this case it hasn't been easy as the women aren't muslims, crusties or students... However unperturbed he continues on the theme that there must be SOMETHING wrong with THEM!! *Never dreamed I would snatch up a Nicos with this thread I was more after a small Renton or a large Fish. Edited June 23, 2009 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'm not sure Fitwatch are against any policing of demos though, are they? If so, I'd certainly disagree with them on that score. We hope to encourage a culture where their presence is not acceptable Don't see a great deal wrong with that tbh. I think they're clearly talking about FIT specifically and not police in general at demos. Although I can see the argument for surveillance at certain demonstrations I'm closer to the stance in their statement than the widespread filming that currently takes place. That's what I meant when i said I'm not sure how it would be decided which ones to film and which ones not to. I assume the decision is made based on groups with a history of criminal acts...like Greenpeace demonstartors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'm not sure Fitwatch are against any policing of demos though, are they? If so, I'd certainly disagree with them on that score. We hope to encourage a culture where their presence is not acceptable Don't see a great deal wrong with that tbh. I think they're clearly talking about FIT specifically and not police in general at demos. Although I can see the argument for surveillance at certain demonstrations I'm closer to the stance in their statement than the widespread filming that currently takes place. That's what I meant when i said I'm not sure how it would be decided which ones to film and which ones not to. I assume the decision is made based on groups with a history of criminal acts...like Greenpeace demonstartors. Well the decision certainly shouldn't be left up to the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'm not sure Fitwatch are against any policing of demos though, are they? If so, I'd certainly disagree with them on that score. We hope to encourage a culture where their presence is not acceptable Don't see a great deal wrong with that tbh. I think they're clearly talking about FIT specifically and not police in general at demos. Although I can see the argument for surveillance at certain demonstrations I'm closer to the stance in their statement than the widespread filming that currently takes place. That's what I meant when i said I'm not sure how it would be decided which ones to film and which ones not to. I assume the decision is made based on groups with a history of criminal acts...like Greenpeace demonstartors. Are Greenpeace demonstrators criminals or heroes of the people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Sadly Nicos gives away all the hallmarks of the victim displaying as he is displacement behavior and thoughts. But in this case it hasn't been easy as the women aren't muslims, crusties or students... However unperturbed he continues on the theme that there must be SOMETHING wrong with THEM!! *Never dreamed I would snatch up a Nicos with this thread I was more after a small Renton or a large Fish. Stick to copying and pasting your googled opinions for people to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakermaker 0 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 After taking into account the OP (particularly the footage) and they way I have seen the Police behave in the past (to others aswell as myself) it's not surprising that a group like fitwatch has came into being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Sadly Nicos gives away all the hallmarks of the victim displaying as he is displacement behavior and thoughts. But in this case it hasn't been easy as the women aren't muslims, crusties or students... However unperturbed he continues on the theme that there must be SOMETHING wrong with THEM!! *Never dreamed I would snatch up a Nicos with this thread I was more after a small Renton or a large Fish. Stick to copying and pasting your googled opinions for people to ignore. Rattled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Sadly Nicos gives away all the hallmarks of the victim displaying as he is displacement behavior and thoughts. But in this case it hasn't been easy as the women aren't muslims, crusties or students... However unperturbed he continues on the theme that there must be SOMETHING wrong with THEM!! *Never dreamed I would snatch up a Nicos with this thread I was more after a small Renton or a large Fish. Stick to copying and pasting your googled opinions for people to ignore. Rattled. Likewise. JOKE!!!111!!!!!!!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Sadly Nicos gives away all the hallmarks of the victim displaying as he is displacement behavior and thoughts. But in this case it hasn't been easy as the women aren't muslims, crusties or students... However unperturbed he continues on the theme that there must be SOMETHING wrong with THEM!! *Never dreamed I would snatch up a Nicos with this thread I was more after a small Renton or a large Fish. Stick to copying and pasting your googled opinions for people to ignore. Rattled. Likewise. JOKE!!!111!!!!!!!1 It will be funnier watching Nicos/Chris/Ming/The harbinger of death execute his backtrack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) Sadly Nicos gives away all the hallmarks of the victim displaying as he is displacement behavior and thoughts. But in this case it hasn't been easy as the women aren't muslims, crusties or students... However unperturbed he continues on the theme that there must be SOMETHING wrong with THEM!! *Never dreamed I would snatch up a Nicos with this thread I was more after a small Renton or a large Fish. Stick to copying and pasting your googled opinions for people to ignore. Rattled. Likewise. JOKE!!!111!!!!!!!1 It will be funnier watching Nicos/Chris/Ming/The harbinger of death execute his backtrack. If you start referring to yourself as Parky, our relationship is over. Its a symptom of this btw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization_disorder Edited June 23, 2009 by ChezGiven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9050 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I don't condone the violence. I think police should not be anonymous. I wonder if these women had not made demands, would there have been violence... simply put, if they hadn't worked themselves up in a righteous stance, would there have been violence? It's very very easy to say that police should be held accountable for their actions (rightly so) and that they should be held to a higher standard, but aren't we approaching a tipping point? Beyond which the Police will be so hamstrung by bureaucracy that they're incapable of dealing with genuine offenders. They already know that when dealing with YOs they permanently run the risk of being falsely sued for excessive force. I don't buy that it's not an incredibly tough job. Imagine spenging 90% of your day dealing with scum, and the rest being blasted by the people. You just never hear them spoken about with much more than contempt and I think that is fundamentally wrong and goes a long way to reveal why the relations between police and the people are so strained. They're under-appreciated, but not god enough.... if that makes any sense what so ever. As I've said many many many times before, theer must be compromise on both side, there must be mutual respect and there must be accountability on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) Sadly Nicos gives away all the hallmarks of the victim displaying as he is displacement behavior and thoughts. But in this case it hasn't been easy as the women aren't muslims, crusties or students... However unperturbed he continues on the theme that there must be SOMETHING wrong with THEM!! *Never dreamed I would snatch up a Nicos with this thread I was more after a small Renton or a large Fish. Stick to copying and pasting your googled opinions for people to ignore. Rattled. Likewise. JOKE!!!111!!!!!!!1 It will be funnier watching Nicos/Chris/Ming/The harbinger of death execute his backtrack. Christ. Copying Fop? How low can you go? ...unless you just forgot to switch over to your alter ego before posting? Edited June 23, 2009 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I don't condone the violence.I think police should not be anonymous. I wonder if these women had not made demands, would there have been violence... simply put, if they hadn't worked themselves up in a righteous stance, would there have been violence? It's very very easy to say that police should be held accountable for their actions (rightly so) and that they should be held to a higher standard, but aren't we approaching a tipping point? Beyond which the Police will be so hamstrung by bureaucracy that they're incapable of dealing with genuine offenders. They already know that when dealing with YOs they permanently run the risk of being falsely sued for excessive force. I don't buy that it's not an incredibly tough job. Imagine spenging 90% of your day dealing with scum, and the rest being blasted by the people. You just never hear them spoken about with much more than contempt and I think that is fundamentally wrong and goes a long way to reveal why the relations between police and the people are so strained. They're under-appreciated, but not god enough.... if that makes any sense what so ever. As I've said many many many times before, theer must be compromise on both side, there must be mutual respect and there must be accountability on both sides. A few things. The women appear to have done nothing wrong (seeing as they were released without charge) and even if they had the violence is completely unacceptable imo. And to follow on from what you say, the query wouldn't have come about if the numbers were worn in any case. Re: your 2nd paragraph, what on earth has this got to do with police being 'hamstrung by bureaucracy'? As you put it. You could say turning up and video every protest going is increased bureaucracy but that's not the point you're making, is it? What's this got to do with young offenders suing the police? Who do you think is responsible, in the main, for a lack of respect for the police? Who's saying there shouldn't be accountability on both sides? Are you suggesting protestors aren't held accountable? No idea what your point is tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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