Derby County -3-0- NUFC

[ChezGiven 0]

I know its easy for me to say this now but i had last night down as a draw at best. Looking at the two away fixtures this week, I knew we'd drop points and for some reason (probs their result v Forest) had Derby rather than Swansea down for where those points would be lost. Having said that, Swansea's home record is decent with few goals against.

 

Bad day at the office though by the sounds of things, it happens, all sorts can happen during the season. No need for panic yet.

[Guest alex]

Take the Cardiff game out of the equation and we've been struggling for ages now.

[Craig 6306]

Take the Cardiff game out of the equation and we've been struggling for ages now.

 

Nail on the head.

[ChezGiven 0]

Take the Cardiff game out of the equation and we've been struggling for ages now.

 

Nail on the head.

 

Having lost 2 in 3 are Forest struggling too?

 

All these teams at the top cant be struggling at the same time, makes no sense.

[Guest alex]

Take the Cardiff game out of the equation and we've been struggling for ages now.

 

Nail on the head.

 

Having lost 2 in 3 are Forest struggling too?

 

All these teams at the top cant be struggling at the same time, makes no sense.

I meant struggling in terms of how we've been playing. And it's not just about being pretty (as we've rarely been that this season) but also in terms of our effectiveness. The unbeaten run has papered over the cracks a bit but I get the feeling we've been sussed out and the amount of draws (especially at home) of late, suggest that is the case. We really struggle to break teams down. I accept last night was a bad day at the office perhaps but if you look at the games since before Xmas the Cardiff match was the exception rather than another seemingly tepid performance last night. Also, looking at the bigger, Forest had an incredible run that inevitably has come to an end, whereas (as I said previously) we've been struggling for a long time now. I'm not being all doom and gloom but we just aren't playing very well and now we aren't even keeping clean sheets. Also, I think before Cardiff a lot of people were worried about our inability to break sides down who come to SJP just looking for a draw so it's not exactly knee-jerk.

[Craig 6306]

Don't forget where the three teams were in respect of points only 4-6 weeks ago. We may still be there, but we've utterly dreadful over that period.

 

We've ground out some results - mainly draws but it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division. The Cardiff result went with form rather than being anything special IMO.

 

Grinding out a 0-0 draw with a Leicester side that were down to 10 men for an hour was a disgrace.

[Guest alex]

Don't forget where the three teams were in respect of points only 4-6 weeks ago. We may still be there, but we've utterly dreadful over that period.

 

We've ground out some results - mainly draws but it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division. The Cardiff result went with form rather than being anything special IMO.

 

Grinding out a 0-0 draw with a Leicester side that were down to 10 men for an hour was a disgrace.

Especially given Leicester were the better side / looked more like scoring.

[Barney 0]

Take the Cardiff game out of the equation and we've been struggling for ages now.

 

Nail on the head.

 

Having lost 2 in 3 are Forest struggling too?

 

All these teams at the top cant be struggling at the same time, makes no sense.

I meant struggling in terms of how we've been playing. And it's not just about being pretty (as we've rarely been that this season) but also in terms of our effectiveness. The unbeaten run has papered over the cracks a bit but I get the feeling we've been sussed out and the amount of draws (especially at home) of late, suggest that is the case. We really struggle to break teams down. I accept last night was a bad day at the office perhaps but if you look at the games since before Xmas the Cardiff match was the exception rather than another seemingly tepid performance last night. Also, looking at the bigger, Forest had an incredible run that inevitably has come to an end, whereas (as I said previously) we've been struggling for a long time now. I'm not being all doom and gloom but we just aren't playing very well and now we aren't even keeping clean sheets. Also, I think before Cardiff a lot of people were worried about our inability to break sides down who come to SJP just looking for a draw so it's not exactly knee-jerk.

 

We were shocking against Palace(with 3 subs and in crisis!) too, by the sounds of things.

 

Guthrie said yesterday

“I think a more open style does suit my style of play, but we are still learning about this league and what it takes to win games.

 

“Everyone wants to play the nice football and that suits me, but some games it is about grinding a win out.

 

“Some games are just a battle in this league and I think that is something we have adapted to really well.

 

“I think a lot of people thought we would struggle to cope with that side of it because we have been known as a good footballing side.

 

“Cardiff came here and tried to play football and sometimes that helps us. In those sorts of games we can go and do that to teams, but it is not going to be like that every week.”

 

Maybe the transition to Cardiff trying to play it on the deck, to Derby battering us completely caught us off guard without Smith or Butt in there to put themselves about.

 

Again, I can only go on radio commentary, but it sounds like Houghton got badly found out tactically.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Barney

[ChezGiven 0]

I dont really see many patterns from recent games. I see the ebb and flow of a season. We were due a defeat too.

 

As for Hughton getting it tactically wrong, it seems that perhaps his more defensive line-ups were more effective?

 

Anyway, we only lose when Colocinni isnt playing, that was the real problem

[khay 8]

I dont really see many patterns from recent games. I see the ebb and flow of a season. We were due a defeat too.

 

As for Hughton getting it tactically wrong, it seems that perhaps his more defensive line-ups were more effective?

 

Anyway, we only lose when Colocinni isnt playing, that was the real problem

 

 

Any word on when he is back?

 

Agree a long run of results in the league without a defeat. While we would have preferred some more wins grinding out this run might be enough to get us up. Albeit in 2nd place to West Brom.

[ChezGiven 0]

Don't forget where the three teams were in respect of points only 4-6 weeks ago. We may still be there, but we've utterly dreadful over that period.

 

We've ground out some results - mainly draws but it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division. The Cardiff result went with form rather than being anything special IMO.

 

Grinding out a 0-0 draw with a Leicester side that were down to 10 men for an hour was a disgrace.

Especially given Leicester were the better side / looked more like scoring.

"it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division" + "given Leicester were the better side / looked more like scoring" doesnt really fit together very well though.

 

This season is going to go to the wire by the looks of things because we are not considerably better than everyone else.

 

Its important to note too, most of the new recruits came from other teams in the same division. Not even their best players either so on paper we got bigger but thats it.

 

I really dont understand this view that we are better than everyone else and therefore underperforming, as you point our alex, the performances this season have rarely been 'good' so where does the judgement come from? A paper assessment of the player's name and previous clubs? Tsk tsk tbh.

Edited February 10, 2010 by ChezGiven

[Barney 0]

I dont really see many patterns from recent games. I see the ebb and flow of a season. We were due a defeat too.

 

As for Hughton getting it tactically wrong, it seems that perhaps his more defensive line-ups were more effective?

 

Anyway, we only lose when Colocinni isnt playing, that was the real problem

 

 

Any word on when he is back?

 

Agree a long run of results in the league without a defeat. While we would have preferred some more wins grinding out this run might be enough to get us up. Albeit in 2nd place to West Brom.

 

Collo could have played in the last 2 games, but he has a tight hamstring so he's rested.

[Guest alex]

Don't forget where the three teams were in respect of points only 4-6 weeks ago. We may still be there, but we've utterly dreadful over that period.

 

We've ground out some results - mainly draws but it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division. The Cardiff result went with form rather than being anything special IMO.

 

Grinding out a 0-0 draw with a Leicester side that were down to 10 men for an hour was a disgrace.

Especially given Leicester were the better side / looked more like scoring.

"it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division" + "given Leicester were the better side / looked more like scoring" doesnt really fit together very well though.

 

This season is going to go to the wire by the looks of things because we are not considerably better than everyone else.

 

Its important to note too, most of the new recruits came from other teams in the same division. Not even their best players either so on paper we got bigger but thats it.

 

I really dont understand this view that we are better than everyone else and therefore underperforming, as you point our alex, the performances this season have rarely been 'good' so where does the judgement come from? A paper assessment of the player's name and previous clubs? Tsk tsk tbh.

Did I say that? Don't remember saying it.

[PaddockLad 14585]

I dont really see many patterns from recent games. I see the ebb and flow of a season. We were due a defeat too.

 

As for Hughton getting it tactically wrong, it seems that perhaps his more defensive line-ups were more effective?

 

Anyway, we only lose when Colocinni isnt playing, that was the real problem

 

3 out of the first choice back 4 out last night, and Guti looked very much as if he was missing his amigo Jose like a lost lover.

 

I'll tell you one thing about the last 3 or 4 games, the games have largely passed Nolan and Guthrie by. There seems to be lots of play in front of them in the centre of the park, but they rarely get tight on their opposite numbers and make it awkward for them. And this was just as obvious to me v Cardiff on Friday as it was last night and at Leicester. They seem only interested in playing when they have the ball given to them and want to do nothing about winning the ball for themselves.

[donaldstott 0]

As for Hughton getting it tactically wrong, it seems that perhaps his more defensive line-ups were more effective?

 

Anyway, we only lose when Colocinni isnt playing, that was the real problem

 

I think away from home that we will lose games if we play four attack minded midfielders, especially given the makeshift back four.

[Guest alex]

I dont really see many patterns from recent games. I see the ebb and flow of a season. We were due a defeat too.

 

As for Hughton getting it tactically wrong, it seems that perhaps his more defensive line-ups were more effective?

 

Anyway, we only lose when Colocinni isnt playing, that was the real problem

 

3 out of the first choice back 4 out last night, and Guti looked very much as if he was missing his amigo Jose like a lost lover.

 

I'll tell you one thing about the last 3 or 4 games, the games have largely passed Nolan and Guthrie by. There seems to be lots of play in front of them in the centre of the park, but they rarely get tight on their opposite numbers and make it awkward for them. And this was just as obvious to me v Cardiff on Friday as it was last night and at Leicester. They seem only interested in playing when they have the ball given to them and want to do nothing about winning the ball for themselves.

I quite like Guthrie but he isn't the greatest in terms of his engine. He's better than Nolan in that regard though.

[Craig 6306]

Don't forget where the three teams were in respect of points only 4-6 weeks ago. We may still be there, but we've utterly dreadful over that period.

 

We've ground out some results - mainly draws but it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division. The Cardiff result went with form rather than being anything special IMO.

 

Grinding out a 0-0 draw with a Leicester side that were down to 10 men for an hour was a disgrace.

Especially given Leicester were the better side / looked more like scoring.

"it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division" + "given Leicester were the better side / looked more like scoring" doesnt really fit together very well though.

 

This season is going to go to the wire by the looks of things because we are not considerably better than everyone else.

 

Its important to note too, most of the new recruits came from other teams in the same division. Not even their best players either so on paper we got bigger but thats it.

 

I really dont understand this view that we are better than everyone else and therefore underperforming, as you point our alex, the performances this season have rarely been 'good' so where does the judgement come from? A paper assessment of the player's name and previous clubs? Tsk tsk tbh.

Did I say that? Don't remember saying it.

 

No but I did

 

On reflection Chez's right though - it is a massive generalisation founded by the press really. Our performances have shown that we aren't that much better (if at all) than the rest.

 

I still maintain that some members of our squad aren't playing anywhere near their best though and that we should be playing better...

[ChezGiven 0]

Don't forget where the three teams were in respect of points only 4-6 weeks ago. We may still be there, but we've utterly dreadful over that period.

 

We've ground out some results - mainly draws but it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division. The Cardiff result went with form rather than being anything special IMO.

 

Grinding out a 0-0 draw with a Leicester side that were down to 10 men for an hour was a disgrace.

Especially given Leicester were the better side / looked more like scoring.

"it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division" + "given Leicester were the better side / looked more like scoring" doesnt really fit together very well though.

 

This season is going to go to the wire by the looks of things because we are not considerably better than everyone else.

 

Its important to note too, most of the new recruits came from other teams in the same division. Not even their best players either so on paper we got bigger but thats it.

 

I really dont understand this view that we are better than everyone else and therefore underperforming, as you point our alex, the performances this season have rarely been 'good' so where does the judgement come from? A paper assessment of the player's name and previous clubs? Tsk tsk tbh.

Did I say that? Don't remember saying it.

Craig did in the post just before yours. Its been one of the most interesting debating points of this season for me. What is the real quality level of the squad versus the other top teams in the division? Are we over-performing (unlikely), underperforming (not sure) or about where we should be (depends on your views of CH)?

[Guest alex]

Anyway, the point I was really making is, look at our form over the last two months and we will not finish in the top 2 in all probability come the end of the season.

[PaddockLad 14585]

I dont really see many patterns from recent games. I see the ebb and flow of a season. We were due a defeat too.

 

As for Hughton getting it tactically wrong, it seems that perhaps his more defensive line-ups were more effective?

 

Anyway, we only lose when Colocinni isnt playing, that was the real problem

 

3 out of the first choice back 4 out last night, and Guti looked very much as if he was missing his amigo Jose like a lost lover.

 

I'll tell you one thing about the last 3 or 4 games, the games have largely passed Nolan and Guthrie by. There seems to be lots of play in front of them in the centre of the park, but they rarely get tight on their opposite numbers and make it awkward for them. And this was just as obvious to me v Cardiff on Friday as it was last night and at Leicester. They seem only interested in playing when they have the ball given to them and want to do nothing about winning the ball for themselves.

I quite like Guthrie but he isn't the greatest in terms of his engine. He's better than Nolan in that regard though.

 

Guthrie flatters to deceive at the moment. Neither him nor Nolan had any interest in closing Savage down last night and made the cunt look like some sort of shite gay Welsh fuckin Andrea Pirlo

 

Because we can't get very much going in the middle, we're forced wide, and when Guti is off his game as he was last night (he looked like he might still be carrying a bit of a knock) it largely peters out. Routledge looked sharp again though last night, but often gets knocked off the ball due to him being a bit too small and lightweight. The Derby left back was however given lenient treatment by the ref and his linesmen, who may have well let Savage ref the whole game on his own.

[Guest alex]

Don't forget where the three teams were in respect of points only 4-6 weeks ago. We may still be there, but we've utterly dreadful over that period.

 

We've ground out some results - mainly draws but it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division. The Cardiff result went with form rather than being anything special IMO.

 

Grinding out a 0-0 draw with a Leicester side that were down to 10 men for an hour was a disgrace.

Especially given Leicester were the better side / looked more like scoring.

"it's commonly accepted that we're considerably better than the rest of this division" + "given Leicester were the better side / looked more like scoring" doesnt really fit together very well though.

 

This season is going to go to the wire by the looks of things because we are not considerably better than everyone else.

 

Its important to note too, most of the new recruits came from other teams in the same division. Not even their best players either so on paper we got bigger but thats it.

 

I really dont understand this view that we are better than everyone else and therefore underperforming, as you point our alex, the performances this season have rarely been 'good' so where does the judgement come from? A paper assessment of the player's name and previous clubs? Tsk tsk tbh.

Did I say that? Don't remember saying it.

Craig did in the post just before yours. Its been one of the most interesting debating points of this season for me. What is the real quality level of the squad versus the other top teams in the division? Are we over-performing (unlikely), underperforming (not sure) or about where we should be (depends on your views of CH)?

Said in another thread recently I think we're about par for the course. That's purely in terms of points accumulated thus far relative to other sides, nothing to do with pre-season expectations or worries, just compared to the rest of the league. You can argue about how well we could be playing in terms of better football etc. but that's a slightly different thing. Recent form (last 10 league games or so), especially relative to the two main contenders for the automatic spots should be a concern though. As should Hughton's apparent lack of ideas (he only played Guthrie in the middle and two wide men against Cardiff because injuries forced his hand imo). I think getting Enrique and Colo back in the starting XI is the crucial thing though as the season's success so far has been based on a solid defence.

[Guest Stevie]

We're wank I've said it for a long time now. The Cardiff performance wasn't the norm, it was a freak given Cardiff were doing ok and hadn't lost in eight. At least some of us are guaranteed Wembley tickets in May though Craig.......

[Guest alex]

I dont really see many patterns from recent games. I see the ebb and flow of a season. We were due a defeat too.

 

As for Hughton getting it tactically wrong, it seems that perhaps his more defensive line-ups were more effective?

 

Anyway, we only lose when Colocinni isnt playing, that was the real problem

 

3 out of the first choice back 4 out last night, and Guti looked very much as if he was missing his amigo Jose like a lost lover.

 

I'll tell you one thing about the last 3 or 4 games, the games have largely passed Nolan and Guthrie by. There seems to be lots of play in front of them in the centre of the park, but they rarely get tight on their opposite numbers and make it awkward for them. And this was just as obvious to me v Cardiff on Friday as it was last night and at Leicester. They seem only interested in playing when they have the ball given to them and want to do nothing about winning the ball for themselves.

I quite like Guthrie but he isn't the greatest in terms of his engine. He's better than Nolan in that regard though.

 

Guthrie flatters to deceive at the moment. Neither him nor Nolan had any interest in closing Savage down last night and made the cunt look like some sort of shite gay Welsh fuckin Andrea Pirlo

 

Because we can't get very much going in the middle, we're forced wide, and when Guti is off his game as he was last night (he looked like he might still be carrying a bit of a knock) it largely peters out. Routledge looked sharp again though last night, but often gets knocked off the ball due to him being a bit too small and lightweight. The Derby left back was however given lenient treatment by the ref and his linesmen, who may have well let Savage ref the whole game on his own.

Tbf Guthrie's only played his 2nd game in a row in his proper decision. I didn't see the game last night though so can't really comment. Ideally I'd like to see him and Barton play CM for us though.

[Guest alex]

We're wank I've said it for a long time now. The Cardiff performance wasn't the norm, it was a freak given Cardiff were doing ok and hadn't lost in eight. At least some of us are guaranteed Wembley tickets in May though Craig.......

We're due a win there anyway. When was the last one? That Mercantile Credit thingy?

[ChezGiven 0]

Simon Bord on Twatter reckons Guthrie has been forced to reveal wages in court after being caught speeding. He is on 4k a week. Relevant?

 

Colo earns 20 times more apparently though.