sweetleftpeg 0 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 If I get 6 numbers up in the lottery I'm sure everyone on here would be agreeing with everything I say. 'Souness is GREAT' 'Yes, sir, whatever you say master.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I actually think it's Souness's fault. Seriously though, people are generally either Souness is shit but not the anti-Christ or Souness IS the anti-Christ. That plus the fact that we are struggling to find our form and have been for a while tends to stiffle the debate to the extent that we are all just picking faults to a greater or lesser extent with NUFC. I think some people, myself included sometimes defend Souness (some good signings etc.) just because everyone else is having a pop. Gemmill loves him though 58539[/snapback] I've never thought he was 'all that' and I was never party to the "he'll do good for us" clan. However I always said he needed to be given a chance and that amounted to a whole season i.e. so he had a summer beforehand to bring in quality players. I can't fault some of his signings (injuries excepted), sure he's bought some shite but then every manager does - anyone remember Darren McDonogh? Who signed him again? He's been given his chance and no-one is disappointed more than me that we're not getting the results the crop of players who are representing him should be getting, but I think that some of the blame needs to be place on the players - as was said yesterday, Parker won the ball and then no-one with the exception of perhaps Emre wanted to know. How frustrating must that be? I still maintain that he's keeping the seat warm, there's no coincidence that 3 of the top summer signings were down to a certain A.Shearer IMO. I think Souness was brought in to sort out the discipline so that it was a steadier ship for Alan when he took over. Probably be in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I actually think it's Souness's fault. Seriously though, people are generally either Souness is shit but not the anti-Christ or Souness IS the anti-Christ. That plus the fact that we are struggling to find our form and have been for a while tends to stiffle the debate to the extent that we are all just picking faults to a greater or lesser extent with NUFC. I think some people, myself included sometimes defend Souness (some good signings etc.) just because everyone else is having a pop. Gemmill loves him though 58539[/snapback] I've never thought he was 'all that' 58547[/snapback] I think he's the bomb-diggety tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 At the risk of coming across like a cliquey bastard self-parodying the old toon-chat, it's like a Jerry Springer episode in here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 At the risk of coming across like a cliquey bastard self-parodying the old toon-chat, it's like a Jerry Springer episode in here 58553[/snapback] Easy.... We'll get messages again saying the forum will 'die' again if you keep that malarky up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 At the risk of coming across like a cliquey bastard self-parodying the old toon-chat, it's like a Jerry Springer episode in here 58553[/snapback] Easy.... We'll get messages again saying the forum will 'die' again if you keep that malarky up! 58555[/snapback] Stop being so cliquey! It's the likes of you that has made this seem like student accomodation next to the Hilton that is N-O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 At the risk of pressing HTT's Godzilla button and getting him over here on a two-page rant again, he hasn't half got his knickers in a twist with over there today. References to his post over here and how it's clearly upset alex etc. I think he's alreet, but he doesn't half take this stuff seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 At the risk of pressing HTT's Godzilla button and getting him over here on a two-page rant again, he hasn't half got his knickers in a twist with over there today. References to his post over here and how it's clearly upset alex etc. I think he's alreet, but he doesn't half take this stuff seriously. 58557[/snapback] So do I normally, the only reason I wound him up today was that the thread in question (i.e. the one that pissed him off) wasn't even started by me and I didn't write anything others hadn't wrote. For some reason though he decided to have a go at me personally. It must have been my laughing at his main man Taylor27, who contrary to what HTT said, I am fully willing to (and have) took the piss out of over there before. I reckon he wants me as a N-O mod tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 At the risk of pressing HTT's Godzilla button and getting him over here on a two-page rant again, he hasn't half got his knickers in a twist with over there today. References to his post over here and how it's clearly upset alex etc. I think he's alreet, but he doesn't half take this stuff seriously. 58557[/snapback] Go on, give us a link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Nah, it'll only cause more hassle and I can't be chewed with being classed as some sort of ringleader. Soz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Nah, it'll only cause more hassle and I can't be chewed with being classed as some sort of ringleader. Soz. 58562[/snapback] Scared of being banned tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Nah, it'll only cause more hassle and I can't be chewed with being classed as some sort of ringleader. Soz. 58562[/snapback] Scared of being banned tbh. 58563[/snapback] Hopeful of getting my arse wiped tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Nah, it'll only cause more hassle and I can't be chewed with being classed as some sort of ringleader. Soz. 58562[/snapback] Scared of being banned tbh. 58563[/snapback] Hopeful of getting my arse wiped tbh. 58565[/snapback] Or licked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Nah, it'll only cause more hassle and I can't be chewed with being classed as some sort of ringleader. Soz. 58562[/snapback] No worries, already found it anyway... Love the way he keeps referring to this place as 'toon-chat'. That place hasn't existed in nearly 18 months! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Viana is a bit of a grey area as I think it's Robson's fault he turned out like he did and at the time we were praising him for stealing him away from Juve and Liverpool. 58433[/snapback] So you're partly defending Robson suggesting that Viana wasn't necessarily a bad signing (in that he is/was a talented player I presume), yet you're saying its Robson's fault his signing turned out the way it did? 58437[/snapback] Exactly. I don't want to start of another 'is he/isn't he left winger/defensive midfielder' argument but I think if he was given a chance in the middle he could've made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Viana is a bit of a grey area as I think it's Robson's fault he turned out like he did and at the time we were praising him for stealing him away from Juve and Liverpool. 58433[/snapback] So you're partly defending Robson suggesting that Viana wasn't necessarily a bad signing (in that he is/was a talented player I presume), yet you're saying its Robson's fault his signing turned out the way it did? 58437[/snapback] Exactly. I don't want to start of another 'is he/isn't he left winger/defensive midfielder' argument but I think if he was given a chance in the middle he could've made it. 58570[/snapback] There's a possibility that he could have made it and I agree that he wasn't really given the chance, but you can't say for sure that he would... (I know you didn't mean that he definitely would have made it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) To give an overall general response to some of the comments about me on here, I have never suggested that Souness is anything but a shit coach. My point is that he seems to be an easy generalised blame for anything shit at Newcastle United at the moment in some peoples eyes. I admit that I am biased against Souness as a manager (not as a bloke). Though, I try to critizise him just for the things I think he is responsible. I would have no problem with people defending him with some valid points, unfortunately I rarely read them. That's why I am puzzled when people who I thought know about what they are talking (like you) come up with points that absolutely make no sense to me. Or with absurd comparisons. We've spent too much money without success - Souness's fault I don't blame Souness for spending too much money at all. It's the board's choice how much money the manager has available. I also give Souness credit for most of the summer signing. But I don't think you have to be a genius of a manager to spot the likes of Owen, Luque, Parker and Emre. But he did a very good job in persuading those players to sign for Newcastle. Too many players are injured - Souness's fault Well, I have been very critical about the club's medical staff in the past - even under Robson. So I don't blame him solely for the injuries. There was an interesting piece in one of todays papers (I think it was the Guardian) where Lampard talks about his record. He says that he has been free of any injuries, especially muscle injuries all the time, what is partly a case of good luck, and partly one of the right life style and preparations. I think it's the same the other way round. Newcastle have too many muscle injuries (hamstrings) that it can be based on pure bad luck. And I am a tad bit sceptical about these stories about the training pitches. Actually I don't have great faith in the coaching ability of Souness and his staff. Actually there are too many people employed who only got there jobs because of their footballing past and not because of their education. To learn about training regimes etc. is part of getting your coaching badges. So with a manager who doesn't have any, it doesn't give me great confidence in his knowledge about these things. Our defenders can't do their jobs to save their lives - Souness's fault Well, a manager is sort of responsible for teaching his players not to do any mistakes. You win together, you lose together. A manager gets credit for things player do right, but also for those things players do wrong. The crowd are not satisfied - Souness's fault That's something I totally don't understand. Again, a manager is responsible for the team affairs. If the crowd isn't happy because a team that should easily be placed in the top six is languishing in midtable and playing very poor football then the crowd has every right not to be satisfied - and the manager is responsible. SLP's 6 numbers didn't come up in the lotto draw - Souness's fault Yes, that's Souness and this Garraway slag who are to blame. The fact I'm trying to make is that (with the exception of the last comment which is quite obviously down to SLP's ineptitude to pick decent numbers), all of the points are something which is not new to any of us and were things we suffered under Robson, Gullit and, to some extent, Keegan. Can anyone tell me if that makes sense or are you all with Isegrim? 58536[/snapback] Again this strange comparison to the days under Keegan and Robson. It baffles me when someone after the last 13 months can say that there is hardly any difference between the days under Keegan and Robson and the era under Souness so far. If the premise is right and the problems are more or less the same, then why were those two not managing teams that were languishing in the bottom half of the table? Edited November 21, 2005 by Isegrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The most important thing at the end of the day is league position. Robson and Keegan managed to get us into the top 6 whereas Souness took us to our lowest league finish ever. There's no comparison to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark 0 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 All Faye's fault tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The problems are the same - THAT'S my point. The level to which they are a problem, or who it may irritate us on an individual basis may be different - that I agree with. In regards to the crowd not being satisfied being Souness's fault, what I meant is that he seems to get the sole blame - sure he's a 'big' factor, but then so are the players and the rest of the coaching staff? Fat Fred hired Souness, and vetoed the hiring of his backroom staff, and with the exception of perhaps Steve Harper, I think it's safe to say that he sanctioned the purchase/signing of ever player on the current payroll. Yet he gets praised for dipping his hand in his pocket when Souness asks for it?? To me this is a case of the upper management being distanced from the blame. We all knew that Souness was the wrong man to hire, he still took him on though! And surely even you can't blame Souness for not turning down the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The most important thing at the end of the day is league position. Robson and Keegan managed to get us into the top 6 whereas Souness took us to our lowest league finish ever. There's no comparison to be made. 58579[/snapback] *cough* Ossie Ardiles, after losing 5-2 away at Oxford United - February 1992. Result: 24th in Division Two or top league: Jim Smith, after losing 2-1 home to West Ham - May 1989. Result 20th in Division One and relegation. Far worse situations that we're in now. I'd even argue that we we in a similar rut in the Dalglish/Gullit era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The problems are the same - THAT'S my point. The level to which they are a problem, or who it may irritate us on an individual basis may be different - that I agree with. In regards to the crowd not being satisfied being Souness's fault, what I meant is that he seems to get the sole blame - sure he's a 'big' factor, but then so are the players and the rest of the coaching staff? Fat Fred hired Souness, and vetoed the hiring of his backroom staff, and with the exception of perhaps Steve Harper, I think it's safe to say that he sanctioned the purchase/signing of ever player on the current payroll. Yet he gets praised for dipping his hand in his pocket when Souness asks for it?? To me this is a case of the upper management being distanced from the blame. We all knew that Souness was the wrong man to hire, he still took him on though! And surely even you can't blame Souness for not turning down the job? 58583[/snapback] Of course I don't blame Souness for taking the job, because it saved him from being unemployed. I blame Sheepheart for appointing him. Sheepheart also dwn't get praise from me for making the money available. That was just appeasement (but I also think that you actually cannot say that Fat Fred was keeping the powder dry anyway). The purchase of Owen gave him and Souness a new lifeline, because Sheepheart knew that an early sacking of Souness (which in my eyes would have been inevitable if we hadn't signed Owen) would have put himself under huge pressure as well. What hiring of backroom staff got vetoed so far by Sheepheart? Souness so far was allowed to make a couple of changes with probably only the reserve team being the notable exclusion. Btw, I think changing the club doctor was a good decision. If Souness had his hands in then kudos to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I don't know for certain but I would suspect that as Souness's direct boss that he has a say in who's hired and who isn't. With the Owen situation, I don't think it saved him from the sack - I think Souiness was getting this season regardless. I think many convinced themselves that Souness was going to be sacked, the bookies included, that the Owen situation has been used to justify him staying on. Only Fat Fred knows if it saved him from the sack, but given the fact that the 3 previous managers were 'replaced' at the end of August and that arguably Shearer is being prepared for the role, I don't think it did. EDIT: Excuse the typos, I've currently got a 4 week old in one arm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I don't know for certain but I would suspect that as Souness's direct boss that he has a say in who's hired and who isn't. With the Owen situation, I don't think it saved him from the sack - I think Souiness was getting this season regardless. I think many convinced themselves that Souness was going to be sacked, the bookies included, that the Owen situation has been used to justify him staying on. Only Fat Fred knows if it saved him from the sack, but given the fact that the 3 previous managers were 'replaced' at the end of August and that arguably Shearer is being prepared for the role, I don't think it did. EDIT: Excuse the typos, I've currently got a 4 week old in one arm! 58592[/snapback] Well, when I saw the fixture list I said Souness will be gone after the ManUre game. And I still think Souness would have got sacked if it hadn't been for the negotiations which lead to the signing of Owen. Without Owen I think we would have 6-9 points less. Regardless of what Sheephearts plans are, when not having success then you are walking straight onto a point of no return. Losing against Blackburn for example would have been such a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The most important thing at the end of the day is league position. Robson and Keegan managed to get us into the top 6 whereas Souness took us to our lowest league finish ever. There's no comparison to be made. 58579[/snapback] *cough* Ossie Ardiles, after losing 5-2 away at Oxford United - February 1992. Result: 24th in Division Two or top league: Jim Smith, after losing 2-1 home to West Ham - May 1989. Result 20th in Division One and relegation. Far worse situations that we're in now. I'd even argue that we we in a similar rut in the Dalglish/Gullit era. 58585[/snapback] You know I meant Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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