Do You Believe In God?

[Guest Gordon McKeag]

Just realised you were talking about Stevie.

 

Each to their own Stevie. Im all for Christian values

Do you not think it undermines them when they're essentially based on a lie though? I mean, what you consider to be a lie anyway.

From a personal viewpoint I think if the Church / Christianity ever had a 'truth' behind it it was lost centuries ago. The dogma makes fuck all sense to me in general.

 

What are 'Christian values' anyway? I take it J69 is referring to the cherry-picked ones which happen to fit into his own personal philosophy. Nowt wrong with that but what's the point in the middle man?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

 

??

You could pass as muslim with your values as well. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't swear, I bet you don't eat bacon neither.

[NJS 3986]

Our species evolved so called christian values 10s of thousand of years before anyone set foot anywhere near Israel. Anyone who doesn't realise that is deluded imo.

[Guest Gordon McKeag]

The only massive issue I have with christianity is the old testament. Noah's ark oh dear.

[Guest alex]

Just realised you were talking about Stevie.

 

Each to their own Stevie. Im all for Christian values

Do you not think it undermines them when they're essentially based on a lie though? I mean, what you consider to be a lie anyway.

From a personal viewpoint I think if the Church / Christianity ever had a 'truth' behind it it was lost centuries ago. The dogma makes fuck all sense to me in general.

 

What are 'Christian values' anyway? I take it J69 is referring to the cherry-picked ones which happen to fit into his own personal philosophy. Nowt wrong with that but what's the point in the middle man?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

 

??

Don't you know then? I thought this was about what you believed.

Still worth pointing out I think that it's a later version of what the Church wanted you think he said rather than stuff he might have said / what actually happened in his life. Still, I'd have more respect for Christians that adhered to that rather than being total fucking hypocrites.

[Guest alex]

The only massive issue I have with christianity is the old testament. Noah's ark oh dear.

Jesus believed in the OT though, if you believe the NT, that is.

[NJS 3986]

The only massive issue I have with christianity is the old testament. Noah's ark oh dear.

 

Once you go one millimetere beyond "that Jesus bloke talked a bit of sense about being nice to each other" then the rest only makes sense in complete relation to the OT.

 

Even if Noah's ark is taken as just a story, it still describes a God who destroyed nearly all life on the planet because he got a bit upset - and that's the Christian God.

[Kid Dynamite 5970]

Just realised you were talking about Stevie.

 

Each to their own Stevie. Im all for Christian values

Do you not think it undermines them when they're essentially based on a lie though? I mean, what you consider to be a lie anyway.

From a personal viewpoint I think if the Church / Christianity ever had a 'truth' behind it it was lost centuries ago. The dogma makes fuck all sense to me in general.

 

What are 'Christian values' anyway? I take it J69 is referring to the cherry-picked ones which happen to fit into his own personal philosophy. Nowt wrong with that but what's the point in the middle man?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

 

??

Don't you know then? I thought this was about what you believed.

Still worth pointing out I think that it's a later version of what the Church wanted you think he said rather than stuff he might have said / what actually happened in his life. Still, I'd have more respect for Christians that adhered to that rather than being total fucking hypocrites.

 

I know. It was just to show there are people out there who believe in Christian values but not in God

[Happy Face 29]

Just realised you were talking about Stevie.

 

Each to their own Stevie. Im all for Christian values

Do you not think it undermines them when they're essentially based on a lie though? I mean, what you consider to be a lie anyway.

From a personal viewpoint I think if the Church / Christianity ever had a 'truth' behind it it was lost centuries ago. The dogma makes fuck all sense to me in general.

 

What are 'Christian values' anyway? I take it J69 is referring to the cherry-picked ones which happen to fit into his own personal philosophy. Nowt wrong with that but what's the point in the middle man?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

 

??

Don't you know then? I thought this was about what you believed.

Still worth pointing out I think that it's a later version of what the Church wanted you think he said rather than stuff he might have said / what actually happened in his life. Still, I'd have more respect for Christians that adhered to that rather than being total fucking hypocrites.

 

I know. It was just to show there are people out there who believe in Christian values but not in God

 

I prefer budhist values.

[Guest alex]

I think he was asking you what you meant by it though, KD.

Edited July 27, 2010 by alex

[The Fish 9047]

No. It's makes life a little too simple and neatly tied up. Which it isn't.

[Renton 17871]

Just realised you were talking about Stevie.

 

Each to their own Stevie. Im all for Christian values

Do you not think it undermines them when they're essentially based on a lie though? I mean, what you consider to be a lie anyway.

From a personal viewpoint I think if the Church / Christianity ever had a 'truth' behind it it was lost centuries ago. The dogma makes fuck all sense to me in general.

 

What are 'Christian values' anyway? I take it J69 is referring to the cherry-picked ones which happen to fit into his own personal philosophy. Nowt wrong with that but what's the point in the middle man?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

 

??

Don't you know then? I thought this was about what you believed.

Still worth pointing out I think that it's a later version of what the Church wanted you think he said rather than stuff he might have said / what actually happened in his life. Still, I'd have more respect for Christians that adhered to that rather than being total fucking hypocrites.

 

I know. It was just to show there are people out there who believe in Christian values but not in God

 

I get that. But at the end of the day you're just cherry-picking the bits of the Bible you like (there's some canny unpleasant stuff even in the NT I guess you won't subscribe to). Do you think the Christian philosophy (Love thy neghbour.... in a nutshell) is unique or even was the first of its type?

[Kid Dynamite 5970]

Read my OP. I dont believe in God or live my life as a Christian.

[The Fish 9047]

Read my OP. I dont believe in God or live my life as a Christian.

Aye, but the question in the title asks "Do you believe in God"

[David Kelly 1117]

I think people only beleive in a god because they don't want to believe that when they die that's the end of everything. They hope there will be some sort of afterlife despite there being nothing at all to back this up. It's all bollocks to me, you live you die and what you do when you are alive is all there is to it.

[Guest alex]

Read my OP. I dont believe in God or live my life as a Christian.

Yeah but you said you have no problem with Christian values. I'm not trying to trick you or anything, I just think if that's what you think, it's worth thinking about what that actually means. We could all just link to wiki pages about belief systems.

[Kid Dynamite 5970]

I know. I wrote it and I answered my own question as a starter to this debate. However, Renton stated:

 

But at the end of the day you're just cherry-picking the bits of the Bible you like

 

Im not cherry picking anything. I haven't even read the Bible. I said to Stevie i'm all for Christian values. Everyone knew what I meant by that, the contemporary 'good christian values' that are portrayed in the media. Equality for all, helping the disadvantaged, treats others as you would wish to be treat. I don't want to get into a pedantic conversation about the ins and outs of the Bible and which bits are good and bad.

[Guest alex]

That is cherry-picking you fuckwit

[Kid Dynamite 5970]

True

 

Can we get back to the original point now.

 

Stevie, I'm all for the good Christian Values. I follow them myself. Not because they are Christian, but because if we all followed them the world would be a better place. As Renton already said, being nice to people isn't exactly a brand new concept. I'm sure it was around long before the 3 wise men and all that.

[Renton 17871]

I think there are broadly speaking three types of people.

 

Those that believe in God (by this I mean a traditional patriarchal Abrahamic type God, rather than some vague stuff like pantheism).

Those that don't believe in God.

Those that haven't really thought about it, or simply don't want to think about it.

 

This board is overwhelmingly populated by the latter two imo.

[NJS 3986]

I think there are broadly speaking three types of people.

 

Those that believe in God (by this I mean a traditional patriarchal Abrahamic type God, rather than some vague stuff like pantheism).

Those that don't believe in God.

Those that haven't really thought about it, or simply don't want to think about it.

 

This board is overwhelmingly populated by the latter two imo.

 

1 and 3 sometimes comes in one package - those brought up to believe and have a vague belief but still don't think about it. These are probably the ones I find the most frustating - if people have a positive, considered belief I respect that on those terms even if I do think its nonsense.

[WubbleUC 0]

I was brought up to be (or brought up as a, not sure which one fits best) Catholic. Went to Catholic Schools and my Mam took me to Church when I was younger.

 

I didn't like it, a lot of people from my School went to the same Church so I had mates to sit with and that, but it never really sat right with me. I never said that like, mainly due to an irrational fear of being 'cured' or some shit.

 

Then we made a deal. If I got confirmed, which was family tradition, I never had to go back again. So I got confirmed and haven't been since!

[NJS 3986]

Then we made a deal. If I got confirmed, which was family tradition, I never had to go back again. So I got confirmed and haven't been since!

 

 

Classic hypocrisy (no offence meant) - confirmation is supposed to be a choice to confirm what you couldn't at baptism and make a promise for life - one of my arguments is that I was confirmed when I was eight and was given no choice whatsoever.

 

At the very least confirmation should only be allowed at 16+

[Guest Gordon McKeag]

I was brought up to be (or brought up as a, not sure which one fits best) Catholic. Went to Catholic Schools and my Mam took me to Church when I was younger.

 

I didn't like it, a lot of people from my School went to the same Church so I had mates to sit with and that, but it never really sat right with me. I never said that like, mainly due to an irrational fear of being 'cured' or some shit.

 

Then we made a deal. If I got confirmed, which was family tradition, I never had to go back again. So I got confirmed and haven't been since!

 

Bit like me , never really went to mass, last religious things i've been at is best man for a wedding and godfather for a cousin about 5yrs ago.

Basically as long as my Gran who is 5ft of catholic fury never finds out that I don't goto mass I'm happy enough, and now I'm older and grasp the catholic churchs stances on things like abortion etc it sits with me even worse.

 

all the "rules" aside i'm to rational for my own good, none of it makes sense or adds up and putting blind "faith" in something that has no proof and is explained by "moving in mysterious ways" just seems insane.

 

Fair play to the people with faith, hope you turn out to be right, it'll be great if you are but I just can't have it myself.

 

@the confirmation bit, yes it's ridiculous i was about 8-9 as well, and i was basically doing it because i got to pick an extra name, anything i wanted, plus was going to get cash/sweets after it.

Very similar background and views to me. Got a family of staunch catholics, and the abortion thing and them taking the moral high ground you just think oh dear, and things like catholic priests and paedophilia and the amount of times there have been cover ups. Oh dear.

 

It must be worse when you are where a lot of people still define you as a person by what strain of christianity it you have been born in to.

[WubbleUC 0]

Then we made a deal. If I got confirmed, which was family tradition, I never had to go back again. So I got confirmed and haven't been since!

 

 

Classic hypocrisy (no offence meant) - confirmation is supposed to be a choice to confirm what you couldn't at baptism and make a promise for life - one of my arguments is that I was confirmed when I was eight and was given no choice whatsoever.

 

At the very least confirmation should only be allowed at 16+

 

None taken, I agree! My Mam worded it diffrently to that mind, she said if I did it I'd be 'free to make up my own mind afterwards.'

 

I think I was confirmed when I was about 14. I did 'have a choice' so to speak, but we had had to go to these sessions on a Thursday night after school to be told what it was all about and supposedly help us decide for ourselves. When they finally asked the question I was the only one who said I wasn't really sure I wanted to do it. They said I should go home and talk about it.

 

Unfortunately, the snivelling wanker who ran the group beat me back to my house and was already there helping himself to the biscuits, and he'd already grassed me up.

 

I went ahead with it becasue I felt like I'd let me Mam down really. I knew what the other Mothers were like (bastards) so I thought I may aswell just do it to keep things sweet.

 

I did tell the bloke what I thought of him afterwards at the buffet though, as his smug grin sent me over the edge. He nearly choked on his sausage roll.

 

I should also point out that my Mam isn't the God botherer I've probably made her sound here. She always put (and continues to put) me and my Sister first. Also, she was fucking livid when she realised that the blokes visit for a chat was to grass me up in case I didn't tell her what the craic was. She apprehended him on her next visit to Church. Nee idea what was said but I wish I could have been a fly on the waal.

[Guest Gordon McKeag]

Amazes me that 1 in 10 people in the UK are catholic yet I'd say 60% of us on here are.