manc-mag 1 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Who would say playing in the Europa league next season,through league position, amounts to a successful campaign this year? Once again, premature to say anything at this stage as we're only 12 games in, but the fact of a Europa League spot finish would obviously be a successful league campaign this year for me if we achieved it. We were expected to go down last year and now we're not expected to go down this year we're expected to sell all our best players instead (for expected to, read 'prevailing narrative'), so if we finish in a Europa spot that has to count as a good return against those expectations. Sad how jading it is being slated for having a bit of enjoyment in a team that has heart and plays for the shirt because it's supposed to make you some sort of 'Ashley apologist'. Trophyshy made a very good remark in the Pardew/January thread about enjoyment being tainted if you persistently look at it with one mindset. It's simply not necessary and you can continue to have pride in a group of players who want to play for NUFC while having very clear views about where the FCB's interests lie. so do YOU think we will build on this platform and go higher ? How high are you talking like? Serious question as I need to know what you think 'building' is in this day and age. You've already said we shouldn't be competing with 3 teams (Man U Man C and Chelski) and I dispute some of the beliefs you seem to have about Liverpool and Spurs operating on the same level. They don't financially, you confuse results and finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Who would say playing in the Europa league next season,through league position, amounts to a successful campaign this year? Once again, premature to say anything at this stage as we're only 12 games in, but the fact of a Europa League spot finish would obviously be a successful league campaign this year for me if we achieved it. We were expected to go down last year and now we're not expected to go down this year we're expected to sell all our best players instead (for expected to, read 'prevailing narrative'), so if we finish in a Europa spot that has to count as a good return against those expectations. Sad how jading it is being slated for having a bit of enjoyment in a team that has heart and plays for the shirt because it's supposed to make you some sort of 'Ashley apologist'. Trophyshy made a very good remark in the Pardew/January thread about enjoyment being tainted if you persistently look at it with one mindset. It's simply not necessary and you can continue to have pride in a group of players who want to play for NUFC while having very clear views about where the FCB's interests lie. so do YOU think we will build on this platform and go higher ? How high are you talking like? Serious question as I need to know what you think 'building' is in this day and age. You've already said we shouldn't be competing with 3 teams (Man U Man C and Chelski) and I dispute some of the beliefs you seem to have about Liverpool and Spurs operating on the same level. They don't financially, you confuse results and finances. Ok, I'll rephrase it. When do you think we will stop selling our best players and pocketing the cash rather than backing our manager to try and improve his team and get as close as possible to Chelsea, Man City and Man U ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Who would say playing in the Europa league next season,through league position, amounts to a successful campaign this year? Once again, premature to say anything at this stage as we're only 12 games in, but the fact of a Europa League spot finish would obviously be a successful league campaign this year for me if we achieved it. We were expected to go down last year and now we're not expected to go down this year we're expected to sell all our best players instead (for expected to, read 'prevailing narrative'), so if we finish in a Europa spot that has to count as a good return against those expectations. Sad how jading it is being slated for having a bit of enjoyment in a team that has heart and plays for the shirt because it's supposed to make you some sort of 'Ashley apologist'. Trophyshy made a very good remark in the Pardew/January thread about enjoyment being tainted if you persistently look at it with one mindset. It's simply not necessary and you can continue to have pride in a group of players who want to play for NUFC while having very clear views about where the FCB's interests lie. Aye, I don't even go to the games now as you know but for the first time in a while I've been looking forward to the fixtures well in advance. Even when we're playing the likes of Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea as there's genuine reasons to be optimistic about the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Tired of seeing this "he's pocketing the cash" nonsense as if it's gospel truth. The club owes him a lot of money. The idea that we're selling off all our best players is so far a fallacy too. Carroll went for the most ridiculous sum ever in football. We didn't want to sell Enrique, he wanted to leave. Big difference. We hardly look worse off without Nolan and Barton and there are reasons for them leaving anyway. You're so blind it's untrue and I have no idea why I'm getting involved yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Spot on Berb ^ I don't even know what thread I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Tired of seeing this "he's pocketing the cash" nonsense as if it's gospel truth. The club owes him a lot of money. The idea that we're selling off all our best players is so far a fallacy too. Carroll went for the most ridiculous sum ever in football. We didn't want to sell Enrique, he wanted to leave. Big difference. We hardly look worse off without Nolan and Barton and there are reasons for them leaving anyway. You're so blind it's untrue and I have no idea why I'm getting involved yet again. Well, the question that perhaps should be asked if why enrique wanted to leave. Sure, europe and all that, but could just as well be the unwillingness to spend money. Yes we owe him alot of money, but part of that is due to the fact that he has placed alot of debt in the club, debt that we perhaps would not have if he did a due dilligence instead of paying 3 times the going rate. Thats not the clubs fault. He might not have pocketed the cash, but when fans see us selling players for 50 million and buying replacements for 5 its a valid question where the money went. There might be a reasonable explanation but in most fans eyes - and rightly so - that seems wrong. We are not really investing in the squad, just getting the best players we can within the ( very limited ) framework of what Mike is willing to pay. Nothing wrong with that. Well, there is - but thats how the cookie crumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 A quick calculation shows the average number of points needed to finish in the different European places over the past decade, I've rounded it up to make it easier. 5th - 63 points. 6th - 60 points. 7th - 56 points. The problem being 6th or 7th don't guarantee you European football and instead you will be relying on the top teams in the country progressing all of the way in the cups, however a quick look at the league cup fixtures for the quarter finals shows that to be in favour. Cardiff vs Blackburn Chelsea vs Liverpool Arsenal vs Man City Man Utd vs Crystal Palace Currently we're sat on 25 points with 26 games left to play. I'll try and update this thread as often as I can throughout the season on our path to European qualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 A quick calculation shows the average number of points needed to finish in the different European places over the past decade, I've rounded it up to make it easier. 5th - 63 points. 6th - 60 points. 7th - 56 points. The problem being 6th or 7th don't guarantee you European football and instead you will be relying on the top teams in the country progressing all of the way in the cups, however a quick look at the league cup fixtures for the quarter finals shows that to be in favour. Cardiff vs Blackburn Chelsea vs Liverpool Arsenal vs Man City Man Utd vs Crystal Palace Currently we're sat on 25 points with 26 games left to play. I'll try and update this thread as often as I can throughout the season on our path to European qualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Who would say playing in the Europa league next season,through league position, amounts to a successful campaign this year? Once again, premature to say anything at this stage as we're only 12 games in, but the fact of a Europa League spot finish would obviously be a successful league campaign this year for me if we achieved it. We were expected to go down last year and now we're not expected to go down this year we're expected to sell all our best players instead (for expected to, read 'prevailing narrative'), so if we finish in a Europa spot that has to count as a good return against those expectations. Sad how jading it is being slated for having a bit of enjoyment in a team that has heart and plays for the shirt because it's supposed to make you some sort of 'Ashley apologist'. Trophyshy made a very good remark in the Pardew/January thread about enjoyment being tainted if you persistently look at it with one mindset. It's simply not necessary and you can continue to have pride in a group of players who want to play for NUFC while having very clear views about where the FCB's interests lie. so do YOU think we will build on this platform and go higher ? How high are you talking like? Serious question as I need to know what you think 'building' is in this day and age. You've already said we shouldn't be competing with 3 teams (Man U Man C and Chelski) and I dispute some of the beliefs you seem to have about Liverpool and Spurs operating on the same level. They don't financially, you confuse results and finances. Ok, I'll rephrase it. When do you think we will stop selling our best players and pocketing the cash rather than backing our manager to try and improve his team and get as close as possible to Chelsea, Man City and Man U ? I think our best players will continue to be for sale in prescribed circumstances to the top paying clubs. I'm on record as saying this for ages. I'm also on record as saying that ergo that makes you technically correct in what you say that we're a 'selling club'. But as you dont advocate competing with the top teams on transfers and wages there is a basic inevitability about that and moreover you don't offer a solution to keep them if you dont compete with the top teams. So whats the point in arguing. As to pocketing the cash I think recouping will continue for the currency of his ownership and on a personal level I think that's a kick in the teeth when the guy clearly doesnt need it, but once again I don't know if you're the best person to be banging that drum if you think it was alright to do under H&S. And for the record I'm not saying I have any qualms about H&S skimming during the 'good times' if that was part of their incentive for having the club, I'm a total realist about that. It's not a dig, but I don't think you put forward a meaningful enough counter proposal to have a real 'argument' with. It genuinely is just contradiction with you (and that's starting to sound like the Monty Python sketch so I'm going to have to stop there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Given Badger's record of getting things right that's probably a black mark against our European qualification right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 He does have a point tbf though. Which is why nobody has even tried to debate the points in the opening post. The squad we have now is the best group of players we've had in years and is far superior to the one we had when he bought the club, the reason nobody was worried about any of the big clubs stealing our players back then is because they were not good enough. We had Nobby Solano attempting to fill in at right back for the always injured Carr, a selection of Babayaro, Edgar and Huntington fighting it out for the left back spot with Bramble, Taylor, Craig Moore and Gooch as our centre backs with Peter Ramage thrown somewhere in there for good measure. Who out of that current squad would walk into our first team? I've said Given and Milner at best and I think picking Given would be debatable. Is that improving the squad? Of course it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 The reason no one is debating the points in the OP is because everyone knows you're a wum who fucked off for about 4 years after telling us Ashley was the best thing since sliced bread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Tired of seeing this "he's pocketing the cash" nonsense as if it's gospel truth. The club owes him a lot of money. The idea that we're selling off all our best players is so far a fallacy too. Carroll went for the most ridiculous sum ever in football. We didn't want to sell Enrique, he wanted to leave. Big difference. We hardly look worse off without Nolan and Barton and there are reasons for them leaving anyway. You're so blind it's untrue and I have no idea why I'm getting involved yet again. Well, the question that perhaps should be asked if why enrique wanted to leave. Sure, europe and all that, but could just as well be the unwillingness to spend money. Yes we owe him alot of money, but part of that is due to the fact that he has placed alot of debt in the club, debt that we perhaps would not have if he did a due dilligence instead of paying 3 times the going rate. Thats not the clubs fault. He might not have pocketed the cash, but when fans see us selling players for 50 million and buying replacements for 5 its a valid question where the money went. There might be a reasonable explanation but in most fans eyes - and rightly so - that seems wrong. We are not really investing in the squad, just getting the best players we can within the ( very limited ) framework of what Mike is willing to pay. Nothing wrong with that. Well, there is - but thats how the cookie crumbles. None of which was disputed or agreed with by what I said, was debating Leazes' two comments (that Ashley pockets money irregardless of a debt situation and that we're selling off all our best players) comments on a very basic level and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaythesouthernmag 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Once again Leazes fails to give a simple answer, this fucker has to be a politician. Is a Europa league place a success?? Jesus questions don't come much easier. Here try this, delete as appropriate It would constitute a success. YES/NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 He does have a point tbf though. Which is why nobody has even tried to debate the points in the opening post. The squad we have now is the best group of players we've had in years and is far superior to the one we had when he bought the club, the reason nobody was worried about any of the big clubs stealing our players back then is because they were not good enough. We had Nobby Solano attempting to fill in at right back for the always injured Carr, a selection of Babayaro, Edgar and Huntington fighting it out for the left back spot with Bramble, Taylor, Craig Moore and Gooch as our centre backs with Peter Ramage thrown somewhere in there for good measure. Who out of that current squad would walk into our first team? I've said Given and Milner at best and I think picking Given would be debatable. Is that improving the squad? Of course it is. You do realise that because he's banned from N-O we're forced to have this recurring diatribe on here, despite practically nobody on here participating in the argument at all. This is pure N-O this, it's nowt to do with Toontastic, so please keep it over there. We've got a good first team (not squad), we've got players that want to be here and we're competing now in 2012. We're happy about that without being delusional about the strengths and weaknesses. Fuck 2007 because its irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 The reason no one is debating the points in the OP is because everyone knows you're a wum who fucked off for about 4 years after telling us Ashley was the best thing since sliced bread. aye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 The reason no one is debating the points in the OP is because everyone knows you're a wum who fucked off for about 4 years after telling us Ashley was the best thing since sliced bread. Yet it looks like I was right, unless you want to try and debate how much worse off we are now with the current group of players, our scouting network that doesn't involve watching Kuyt when he's already told everyone he's off to Liverpool and our finances that don't need to be covered by some billionaire to carry on trading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 He does have a point tbf though. Which is why nobody has even tried to debate the points in the opening post. The squad we have now is the best group of players we've had in years and is far superior to the one we had when he bought the club, the reason nobody was worried about any of the big clubs stealing our players back then is because they were not good enough. We had Nobby Solano attempting to fill in at right back for the always injured Carr, a selection of Babayaro, Edgar and Huntington fighting it out for the left back spot with Bramble, Taylor, Craig Moore and Gooch as our centre backs with Peter Ramage thrown somewhere in there for good measure. Who out of that current squad would walk into our first team? I've said Given and Milner at best and I think picking Given would be debatable. Is that improving the squad? Of course it is. You do realise that because he's banned from N-O we're forced to have this recurring diatribe on here, despite practically nobody on here participating in the argument at all. This is pure N-O this, it's nowt to do with Toontastic, so please keep it over there. We've got a good first team (not squad), we've got players that want to be here and we're competing now in 2012. We're happy about that without being delusional about the strengths and weaknesses. Fuck 2007 because its irrelevant. Exactly, fuck off back to the kids board where you belong Baggio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 We had Nobby Solano attempting to fill in at right back for the always injured Carr Rather have Nobby than Obertan...from either spell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) a selection of Babayaro, Edgar and Huntington fighting it out for the left back spot with Bramble, Taylor, Craig Moore and Gooch as our centre backs with Peter Ramage thrown somewhere in there for good measure. Yet they never got relegated while Coloccini, Ryan Taylor and Steven Taylor did (Harper/Krul too). ....and they remain. Edited November 23, 2011 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I will say this like in terms of comparisons generally and the vast nonsensical swathes of stuff that gets posted on here re: Ashley's teams/Shepherd's teams - in terms of the top teams, the only comparison they bother themselves with is whether you're as good or better than the team you put out last week. If you can say that then you're progressing and maintaining standards and thats all that counts and all I'm arsed about. Not the team you put out four years ago. If you're looking at four years ago you're probably i) just engaging in some sort of meaningless point scoring argument, and/or ii) pre-disposed to end up resting on your laurels if you find the comparison is a favourable one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Why some people seem to think we need obertan back baffles me. Goldfish memory much... horrible player ( aside from THAT assist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now