yeeeeeeeeeeeeee hhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa

[Howaythelads 0]

Overspending - Don't agree with the argument that drops this into the lap of FS. Are you suggesting that when Souness submits what you call a 'wish list', he has no idea of how much he's asking the club to stump up in support of his ego?

 

The fact is he didn't need to sign as many players as he's signed, he eroded the value of certain players and left the club in a situation where FS had to agree to the fee demands from other clubs. If a manager leaves a club with nothing on the left flank, and no PL quality strikers, do you think selling clubs are going to offer FS bargains? Why did he sign the players he signed? Most are poor signings imo.

 

When Souness was appointed I'd suggest that most people believed it was the defence that needed sorting out, plus we knew Shearer was near the end, he needed to retire and the club needed an adequate replacement for him. What we didn't need was a complete rebuild of the midfield. What has Souness done with this £50m? We still need a defence and we still need Shearer to retire and be replaced.

 

The manager takes the credit if we do well, not FS. The manager takes the blame when it's fucked up. Simple as that. And it's fcuked up now.

 

As for supporting Souness, ie giving him time. The point is that people like Gemmill ( and I assume yourself ) have taken TOO long to acknowledge Souness should go. In fact, do you think he should go? I didn't want Souness as manager, but once appointed I thought well ok, we have to support him. The thing is, it became absolutely crystal clear in a very short space of time ( a couple of months max ) that he puts his own self interest and ego ahead of the club. That was when he'd had enough time, yet many carried on rolling out the ridiculous line of giving him more time, wait until he's got his team and all that bullshit. They're still trying to justify it now. The result of that attitude is where we are now.

 

What on earth is "enough time" anyway? Sometimes people need to get their heads out of the book that says, "a manager needs 2 years", and recognise the evidence.

 

Moving on, I don't agree with you that what Bellamy did was unforgivable. It is certainly no worse than Dyer chucking the armband, and Bowyer and Dyer fighting on the pitch, is it? What is unforgivable is Souness putting his ego ahead of the team by abusing Craig Bellamy and Laurent Robert. The only thing these players did was suss the tosser out pretty quick and call him the wanker he is. It's sad that so many of you were prepared to so easily forget the 100% performances put in by Bellamy in particular, on the say so of Souness and his bunch of 'yes men'. This may not apply to Robert, but your comment about 10 men for 8 out of 10 matches is frankly, a bit daft mate. I'm not a stat man, but someone who created as much as he did was obviously doing something in more matches than that. However, I accept that you prefer workaholics to skillful players with flair. Mind you, I still don't see much support for the left back despite Robert having gone. Why's that, I wonder?

 

I'm also mystified why you would belive the spirit in the dressing room is better on the basis Shearer and Given said so. What's so important about what these players say? I'd say that in fact they are both lying. Is that not worse than Bellamy telling the TRUTH on TV? The evidence of any improvement in team spirit (applies to every team in every sport) can always be seen in the team performances on the field of play. There has never been any evidence to suggest an improvement in team spirit, quite the opposite in fact.

Edited January 7, 2006 by Howaythelads

[Scottish Mag 3]

Overspending - Don't agree with the argument that drops this into the lap of FS. Are you suggesting that when Souness submits what you call a 'wish list', he has no idea of how much he's asking the club to stump up in support of his ego?

75721[/snapback]

 

Thats assuming it was Souness who signed all the players and not just FS on a power trip again...

[LeazesMag 0]

No I haven't as I will explain now....

 

Yes, you were right, but then it didn't take a genius to work it out did it? His track record of winning major english and european trophies was a bit thin - but still thicker than the others who turned us down. Bad sales - I'm still undecided about some of the sales but that's personal opinion and it's pointless dicussing it with you anyway as you have made your mind up and do not intend to move on it.

 

glad you admit it didn't take a genius to work it out, so what does it say for those that didn't ?

 

Winning the FA Cup with a team used to winning the league and finishing in it's lowest league position for over 30 years...

 

Buys and sales are reflected in league position, points and prrformances, look at those and there is your answer.

 

Overspending... should the blame for that not lie with FS? Souey doesn't agree the price, he makes his wish list. FS sorts the rest. Agreed our results this season have been worse than last season and morale is low yet again, but it hasn't always been that way.

 

making it known good players were available at any price was down to FS was it ?

I don't think so. Likewise, the result of that which left us with one 35 year old striker a week before the transfer deadline and a desperate position where we were charged 26m quid for 2 forwards was FS fault ?

 

And we have to find a good partner for Owen ths summer yet, assuming he stays ...

 

Morale certainly hasn't always been low....only a few years ago we were a top 4/5 team, reached the 2nd phase of the CL, won 9 away games, won almost every game after travelling to europe, and came from behind to win more than anyone else in the premiership.....all this with the "cancer" in the dressing room

 

As has been explained to you by not only myself but others in this thread - because we were stuck with him. As I mentioned in my post, you can't expect to get the best out of someone if all you do is tell them they are shite and you don't want them there. FFS, if I did that to one of my staff I'd have my arse dragged into an Industrial Tribunal! Now whilst the situation doesn't directly translate to football fans and the manager, the overall gist of what I'm trying to say does. Support someone and they stand a chance of succeeding, put them down from day one and they dont.

 

the point is, you backed him because you thought he would be successful.......this is a website, what we say has NO effect on the players when they play.....however if people had reacted publically when it became obvious this manager was putting himself before the club, and assaulting his player on the training ground, we may have got rid of him and still had the basis of our top 5 team , with someone else using that money to strengthen it properly instead of ripping it up *

 

I did because both Shearer and Given said it iirc and until recent months there is the possibility that it was better. We'll not know until the next autobiography comes out will we?

 

yes, we will see....is this why Shay Given is thinking about moving, because he prefers a "happy" dressing room to a top side playing in europe and a reasonable chance of winnig a cup on the platform of that

 

I don't agree with you there and we've had this conversation before as well. Bellars was as much to blame for his own demise as Souey was. Not withstanding the 'fucking prick' comment when he was subbed, going on sky and publically calling his manager a liar instead of being a man and dealing with it indoors was unforgivable.

 

Craig Bellamy walked off the trainig ground to discuss his problem with his manager, with his chairman, in PRIVATE. So fuckwit goes and makes a big deal of it, instead of dealing with the ones who didn't bother turning up for actual games ....

 

Only a complete wanker takes off the best player on the field [v Charlton] for no other reason than making a point of authority ie put timself before the club, the same as he did with Robert against Sporting Lisbon.

 

For all of Roberts failings (and he had a fair few) I'm still not convinced we should have gotten rid of him as we've never replaced his incandescant skills. Having said that, 8/10 games he couldn't be arsed and it it was like playing with 10 men.

 

For 9,5m quid, which could have been spent somewhere else ie a striker rather than whinge on about having a small squad, Luque isn't different to Robert from what we've seen so far

 

As has already been pointed out (a couple of times now), not faith - support for a manager we were stuck with anyway. It's called looking to the positives and making the best of what you have been given. It's also called being annoyingly British 

 

my mate says this, but i can honestly say, since Souness walked into this club, it feels like a black cloud, I knew he would fuck the club up, so why should suport a man who is gouing to do this [see previous point] *

[Craig 6302]

I know I'll regret saying this, but doesn't the final yes/no on whether we sign a player lie with FS rather than GS??

 

If so, he is ultimately responsible for the amount we're paying out for sub-standard players. I'd also suggest that someone has a word with the scouts as well as they evidently didn't do their homework on the likes of Boumsong, Faye & Babayaro (Yes I know Souness wanted them as well but the club surely will have sent a scout to keep an eye on their consistency............wouldn't we? )

 

Then again, this is NUFC....

[LeazesMag 0]

I know I'll regret saying this, but doesn't the final yes/no on whether we sign a player lie with FS rather than GS??

 

If so, he is ultimately responsible for the amount we're paying out for sub-standard players. I'd also suggest that someone has a word with the scouts as well as they evidently didn't do their homework on the likes of Boumsong, Faye & Babayaro (Yes I know Souness wanted them as well but the club surely will have sent a scout to keep an eye on their consistency............wouldn't we? )

 

Then again, this is NUFC....

75752[/snapback]

 

so you are saying that we should have gone on into the season with Shearer as our only forward/striker ?

 

[that would have been down to Souness]

[Guest alex]

I know I'll regret saying this, but doesn't the final yes/no on whether we sign a player lie with FS rather than GS??

 

If so, he is ultimately responsible for the amount we're paying out for sub-standard players. I'd also suggest that someone has a word with the scouts as well as they evidently didn't do their homework on the likes of Boumsong, Faye & Babayaro (Yes I know Souness wanted them as well but the club surely will have sent a scout to keep an eye on their consistency............wouldn't we? )

 

Then again, this is NUFC....

75752[/snapback]

 

so you are saying that we should have gone on into the season with Shearer as our only forward/striker ?

 

[that would have been down to Souness]

75766[/snapback]

That doesn't appear to be what he's saying tbh.

[LeazesMag 0]

I know I'll regret saying this, but doesn't the final yes/no on whether we sign a player lie with FS rather than GS??

 

If so, he is ultimately responsible for the amount we're paying out for sub-standard players. I'd also suggest that someone has a word with the scouts as well as they evidently didn't do their homework on the likes of Boumsong, Faye & Babayaro (Yes I know Souness wanted them as well but the club surely will have sent a scout to keep an eye on their consistency............wouldn't we? )

 

Then again, this is NUFC....

75752[/snapback]

 

so you are saying that we should have gone on into the season with Shearer as our only forward/striker ?

 

[that would have been down to Souness]

75766[/snapback]

That doesn't appear to be what he's saying tbh.

75770[/snapback]

 

do i really need to put the first line on bold - my whole post is addressing the desperate situation we were in before the deadline, thanks to Souness' ego and behaving like a complete amateur

[maggiespaws 0]

Overspending - Don't agree with the argument that drops this into the lap of FS. Are you suggesting that when Souness submits what you call a 'wish list'' date=' he has no idea of how much he's asking the club to stump up in support of his ego?

[/quote']

 

Well it's obvious that Owen is going to cost several million and Souey will know this. It's also a fair assumption that he's going to cost around £10mil given his transfer value. However, exactly how much we pay is down to FS as he signs the cheques.

 

The fact is he didn't need to sign as many players as he's signed' date=' he eroded the value of certain players and left the club in a situation where FS had to agree to the fee demands from other clubs.

[/quote']

 

One one hand I agree with the first bit. We had a good squad (we had too given the finishes we'd had with them) but we have a good squad now (on paper - as this is really all we have to go on). I don't think the blame can lie soley with GS for eroding player value. Bellars wanted out, as did Robert - this helped erode their value. GS was the reason they wanted out and this is where it gets murky. I do believe that the dressing room was crap when GS took over. SBR had obviously been soft on them and they had no respect as a result. I think Bellars, Robert, Dyer, JJ, Bramble to name a few needed taking to one side and told to stop taking the piss - as frankly their off-field petulence was insulting. However, I also agree that GS may have taken the 'sledge hammer' approach. What I'm trying to say is that imo it's 6 of one and /dozen of the other. In an ideal world, the players I've listed wouldn't have been this way and we'd still have Ballars and Robert in the squad. Bellars created space for us and frightened thei shit out of the opposition. Robert on his day set the hairs up on the back of my neck. Som eof his stuff was sublime. But before I go all misty eyed, this brings me to why I only agree with the first sentance one on hand.

 

Perhaps he needed to sign the replacement players he did for the greater good of the club? Perhaps as good a players as they are, they were also a disruptive influence. It's all theoretical as we don't really know. We're all drawing our own conclusions from the evidence we have.

 

If a manager leaves a club with nothing on the left flank' date=' and no PL quality strikers, do you think selling clubs are going to offer FS bargains? Why did he sign the players he signed? Most are poor signings imo.

 

[/quote']

 

I'm assuming you're leaving Owen out as you believe he's going to be off at the end of the season. I also think Luque needs a run before we can honestly make our minds up. Parker was a class signing imo. Faye was crap and Boum for the minute has an excuse due to family illness - although I'm not entirely convinced by my own argument on that latter. Moore... well I never saw him at Rangers so I can't comment, but his constant injury at his age leads me to believe he was a bad signing too. To be fair like, I don't believe GS or anyone would have signed him if they had any idea how injury prone he'd be. I think Emre will prove to be a good signing from what I have seen of him. Nobby - cos Ambrose wasn't good enough and Milner needs experience, hence the loan.

 

When Souness was appointed I'd suggest that most people believed it was the defence that needed sorting out' date=' plus we knew Shearer was near the end, he needed to retire and the club needed an adequate replacement for him. What we didn't need was a complete rebuild of the midfield. What has Souness done with this £50m? We still need a defence and we still need Shearer to retire and be replaced.

 

[/quote']

 

I pretty much agree with you there. Circumstances forced us to buy another striker that would not not replace Shearer. To be fair to GS, when he joined, the first thing he set about trying to address was our defence. However, 12mths on our defence still looks a cringworthy at times and we still need a partner for Owen to replace Shearer.

 

The manager takes the credit if we do well' date=' not FS. The manager takes the blame when it's fucked up. Simple as that. And it's fcuked up now.

 

[/quote']

 

Agreed.

 

 

As for supporting Souness' date=' ie giving him time. The point is that people like Gemmill ( and I assume yourself ) have taken TOO long to acknowledge Souness should go. In fact, do you think he should go?

[/quote']

 

First off, yes to the latter.

 

As for time, let me make my feelings clear. We got GS mid season, so he was always going to finish the season. Additionally, FS was never going to get rid after a few months unless GS really screwed things up as he'd have to admit he got it wrong. This meant GS was going to get this season and I felt he should have this season to have a fair crack. The second half of last season was a transition where I initially believed he was trying to settle the ship. I would have prefered it if Robert and Bellars had stayed, we sold JJ and we'd still bought Parker and Owen.

 

I no longer think he should see the end of the season as it's just too damaging. My worry is that Roeder can't do any better and we can't get a decent one in the summer. If we're scoring points here, then yes, you, LM and renton said it first - but onyl because you weren't willing to give him a chance in the first place. You've said yourself that you made you mind up in the first couple of months.

 

I didn't want Souness as manager' date=' but once appointed I thought well ok, we have to support him. The thing is, it became absolutely crystal clear in a very short space of time ( a couple of months max ) that he puts his own self interest and ego ahead of the club. That was when he'd had enough time, yet many carried on rolling out the ridiculous line of giving him more time, wait until he's got his team and all that bullshit. They're still trying to justify it now. The result of that attitude is where we are now.

 

What on earth is "enough time" anyway? Sometimes people need to get their heads out of the book that says, "a manager needs 2 years", and recognise the evidence.

 

[/quote']

 

I felt he needed a full season. Changing manager every 5 mins it not the answer either.

 

Moving on' date=' I don't agree with you that what Bellamy did was unforgivable. It is certainly no worse than Dyer chucking the armband, and Bowyer and Dyer fighting on the pitch, is it?

[/quote']

 

No it's not. Part of me doesn't blame Bowyer for twatting Dyer as he was being a cock and it was hurting the team. That doesn't excuse the manner in which he did it though. Dyer's petulent display with the armband still sickens me now. That doesn't make what Bellars did any better. It just means the GS has not been consistent with his punishment.

 

What is unforgivable is Souness putting his ego ahead of the team by abusing Craig Bellamy and Laurent Robert. The only thing these players did was suss the tosser out pretty quick and call him the wanker he is.

 

Again' date=' I agree. His mistake was calling him a wanker and a liar in public, thus opening the door for GS to get rid of him. Dyer, by comparison, has kept his head down as he can see what happens. Bowyer is being very professional and getting on with his job and quietly looking to move.

 

It's sad that so many of you were prepared to so easily forget the 100% performances put in by Bellamy in particular, on the say so of Souness and his bunch of 'yes men'.

 

I haven't forgotten I just dont think I'm either getting my point across, or you're choosing not to understand it ;-)

 

This may not apply to Robert' date=' but your comment about 10 men for 8 out of 10 matches is frankly, a bit daft mate. I'm not a stat man, but someone who created as much as he did was obviously doing something in more matches than that.

[/quote']

 

On reflection, 8/10 was indeed a bit harsh. But Robert was guilty of going missing in matches - especially important ones - very regularly and this was what I was trying to say. Some games he'd only make a few notable passes/contributions. To be fair, there were plenty of times when those 2/3 contributions won us the game like.

 

However' date=' I accept that you prefer workaholics to skillful players with flair. Mind you, I still don't see much support for the left back despite Robert having gone. Why's that, I wonder?

[/quote']

 

No, you've definitly got that wrong. If I look at my NUFC past favs, their mostly flair players. I just dont appreciate people who dont dig deep when the situation calls for it and instead stand with their hands on their hips. You dont see it happen very often at MUFC do you?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at with the left back support comment though.

 

I'm also mystified why you would belive the spirit in the dressing room is better on the basis Shearer and Given said so. What's so important about what these players say?

 

Perhaps I'm guilty of believing the people I hold in higher regard at the club.

 

I'd say that in fact they are both lying. Is that not worse than Bellamy telling the TRUTH on TV?

 

If they are' date=' then they out of line. Bellars should never have said what he said on TV. True or not. This is one of my points about him.

 

The evidence of any improvement in team spirit (applies to every team in every sport) can always be seen in the team performances on the field of play. There has never been any evidence to suggest an improvement in team spirit' date=' quite the opposite in fact.[/quote']

 

Again, I see your point. However, even with a better dressing room, a team without tactics is screwed. Thats where GS has definitly gone wrong.

 

I think I need to be explicit about how I felt about GS.

 

I never wanted him as a manager. I wasn't happy when he took over, but we were stuck with him. He was always going to start this season so I felt that whilst he was here, then he should be supported. As I have said in earlier posts, you wont a get a decent performance form anyone, in or out of football, if you persistently berate them. We had to make the best of what we had. I felt that if he went off the rails this season, then FS would have to take actrion. This is the situation we are in now.

 

It's not a case of people like me failing to see that GS wouldn't cut the mustard, we just chose to be positive and play our limited part in helping the team. I feel the same way about new players such as Luque. Give the kid a decent chance before you write him off. He is here after all.

 

I hope this clears it up.

 

Paws

Edited January 7, 2006 by maggiespaws

[maggiespaws 0]

*I've deleted the post so that it doesn't scroll forever*

75735[/snapback]

 

LM, I've read your post, but I'd replied to HTL first and some of it will be repetition.

 

I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying, I guess some of my viewpoint is a little muddy. Perhaps the crux of this was that I felt that as we were stuck with him, we should at least get behind him and the team otherwise we really were screwed. I appreciate your points about bellars and in some ways agree with you. but as I have previously stated, I dont think bellars was without blame in things. I think my argument(for want of a better word) is weaker because I can see both sides of the coin and therefore am not as staunch about a particular side as you are.

 

I agree the whole thing could have been handled better but it wasn't. As for this being a website, yes it is. But by support, I meant in person, in voice at games not on a forum where no-one at NUFC gives a shit.

[LeazesMag 0]

*I've deleted the post so that it doesn't scroll forever*

75735[/snapback]

 

LM, I've read your post, but I'd replied to HTL first and some of it will be repetition.

 

I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying, I guess some of my viewpoint is a little muddy. Perhaps the crux of this was that I felt that as we were stuck with him, we should at least get behind him and the team otherwise we really were screwed. I appreciate your points about bellars and in some ways agree with you. but as I have previously stated, I dont think bellars was without blame in things. I think my argument(for want of a better word) is weaker because I can see both sides of the coin and therefore am not as staunch about a particular side as you are.

 

I agree the whole thing could have been handled better but it wasn't. As for this being a website, yes it is. But by support, I meant in person, in voice at games not on a forum where no-one at NUFC gives a shit.

75965[/snapback]

 

I hope, after today, it is the last straw, because if it is, we have the FA Cup and a UEFA spot to go for, if we keep him we have no chance of antyhing except avoiding a relegation scrap

[Craig 6302]

I know I'll regret saying this, but doesn't the final yes/no on whether we sign a player lie with FS rather than GS??

 

If so, he is ultimately responsible for the amount we're paying out for sub-standard players. I'd also suggest that someone has a word with the scouts as well as they evidently didn't do their homework on the likes of Boumsong, Faye & Babayaro (Yes I know Souness wanted them as well but the club surely will have sent a scout to keep an eye on their consistency............wouldn't we? )

 

Then again, this is NUFC....

75752[/snapback]

 

so you are saying that we should have gone on into the season with Shearer as our only forward/striker ?

 

[that would have been down to Souness]

75766[/snapback]

That doesn't appear to be what he's saying tbh.

75770[/snapback]

 

do i really need to put the first line on bold - my whole post is addressing the desperate situation we were in before the deadline, thanks to Souness' ego and behaving like a complete amateur

75773[/snapback]

 

 

You've just outlined precisely what I've known you've thought all along Leazes...

 

We make a good signing, you praise Shepherd. We make a poor signing, you blame Souness...

 

I'm not defending Souness, but my point is that Shepherd is ultimately responsible for the signings of Babayaro, Boumsong & Faye as well as those of Owen, Parker, Emre and Solano.

[Howaythelads 0]

I know I'll regret saying this, but doesn't the final yes/no on whether we sign a player lie with FS rather than GS??

 

If so, he is ultimately responsible for the amount we're paying out for sub-standard players. I'd also suggest that someone has a word with the scouts as well as they evidently didn't do their homework on the likes of Boumsong, Faye & Babayaro (Yes I know Souness wanted them as well but the club surely will have sent a scout to keep an eye on their consistency............wouldn't we? )

 

Then again, this is NUFC....

75752[/snapback]

 

so you are saying that we should have gone on into the season with Shearer as our only forward/striker ?

 

[that would have been down to Souness]

75766[/snapback]

That doesn't appear to be what he's saying tbh.

75770[/snapback]

 

do i really need to put the first line on bold - my whole post is addressing the desperate situation we were in before the deadline, thanks to Souness' ego and behaving like a complete amateur

75773[/snapback]

 

 

You've just outlined precisely what I've known you've thought all along Leazes...

 

We make a good signing, you praise Shepherd. We make a poor signing, you blame Souness...

 

I'm not defending Souness, but my point is that Shepherd is ultimately responsible for the signings of Babayaro, Boumsong & Faye as well as those of Owen, Parker, Emre and Solano.

76023[/snapback]

 

Souness decides who to buy and usually who to sell, he is responsible. The person who actually does the donkey work and the negotiation is not responsible for who the individuals players are. Only cases where it won't apply will be if a buying club makes an offer so large the Board accept it against the managers wishes. But as for buying, that should always be driven by the manager.

[Craig 6302]

Course our chairman makes no input whatsoever and the comments about the specific player that he makes to the press are naturally bullshit....

[LeazesMag 0]

I know I'll regret saying this, but doesn't the final yes/no on whether we sign a player lie with FS rather than GS??

 

If so, he is ultimately responsible for the amount we're paying out for sub-standard players. I'd also suggest that someone has a word with the scouts as well as they evidently didn't do their homework on the likes of Boumsong, Faye & Babayaro (Yes I know Souness wanted them as well but the club surely will have sent a scout to keep an eye on their consistency............wouldn't we? )

 

Then again, this is NUFC....

75752[/snapback]

 

so you are saying that we should have gone on into the season with Shearer as our only forward/striker ?

 

[that would have been down to Souness]

75766[/snapback]

That doesn't appear to be what he's saying tbh.

75770[/snapback]

 

do i really need to put the first line on bold - my whole post is addressing the desperate situation we were in before the deadline, thanks to Souness' ego and behaving like a complete amateur

75773[/snapback]

 

 

You've just outlined precisely what I've known you've thought all along Leazes...

 

We make a good signing, you praise Shepherd. We make a poor signing, you blame Souness...

 

I'm not defending Souness, but my point is that Shepherd is ultimately responsible for the signings of Babayaro, Boumsong & Faye as well as those of Owen, Parker, Emre and Solano.

76023[/snapback]

 

wrong. i don't think Shepherd makes ANY signings, i DO think though that in these exceptional circumstances that Souness put us in an extremely vulnerable position, whereby other clubs otook advantage and exploited it

[Craig 6302]

Pointless discussing it further when you keep your on where Shepherd is concerned tbh...

[LeazesMag 0]

Pointless discussing it further when you keep your on where Shepherd is concerned tbh...

76035[/snapback]

 

no, i haven't. I think souness behaved like an amateur, most managers just don't let their chairmen interfere with transfer dealings, and souness certainly wouldn't.

 

Personnel wise, no one can say he has been anything other than a failure, at great financial cost

[Craig 6302]

Your opinions of Souness and Shepherd are at the opposite ends of the spectrum though, yet Shepherd is the man who hired Souness and continues to support him (I'm not talking about financially)....

 

Souness has been a failure at great financial cost - but that's Shepherd's fault!

[LeazesMag 0]

Your opinions of Souness and Shepherd are at the opposite ends of the spectrum though, yet Shepherd is the man who hired Souness and continues to support him (I'm not talking about financially)....

 

Souness has been a failure at great financial cost - but that's Shepherd's fault!

76040[/snapback]

 

 

making one crap appointment doesn't make Shepherd a bad chairman....and bloody hell, no ones called Souness more than me

[Craig 6302]

You yourself said that Souness is a 'failure at great financial cost'. Who do you blame for that?

[LeazesMag 0]

You yourself said that Souness is a 'failure at great financial cost'. Who do you blame for that?

76061[/snapback]

 

Souness. He decided who he wanted out, and in. Shepherd backed his manager, like all of you said, back him and give him time. So you can't say Shepherd is shite when he did what you advocated ! I can though, because I said he should sack him, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt providing he does better next time.

 

One bad appointment doesn't change the fact Shepherd is one of the better chairman.

 

The Liverpool board made the same mistake once, would you call them bad directors ?

[Craig 6302]

Shepherd hired Souness though (I know you're gonna keep masking over that each time I mention it).

 

Bottom line is that whatever negative comment we make about Souness at Newcastle United, Shepherd is ultimately responsible for everything he does at the club!

[LeazesMag 0]

Shepherd hired Souness though (I know you're gonna keep masking over that each time I mention it).

 

Bottom line is that whatever negative comment we make about Souness at Newcastle United, Shepherd is ultimately responsible for everything he does at the club!

76070[/snapback]

 

So what will you say if he appoints a manager you approve of next time, or one that wins a trophy, or one that gets into the top 4?

 

Change your mind ? [with hindsight .... ]

[Craig 6302]

If he appoints a manager who delivers a trophy, then I'll say that he's made a good decision.

 

However I will still maintain that he is ultimately responsible for the reason why the club has taken such a backward step over the past 2½ years.

 

Shepherd is extremely competent at managing a balance sheet - when it comes to forward planning where the club's concerned, I think he's extremely inept...

 

Do you conceed that he sacked Robson without any fore-thought of who would be willing to replace him?

 

The same Shepherd who only wants British managers who he's never approached before, the same Shepherd who said Craig Bellamy will never play for the club so long as he's involved (that one's for your benefit, not mine!), the same Shepherd who continues to give Graeme Souness his full backing?

 

This is more than one bad managerial appointment tbh.

[Gemmill 34435]

It's actually amazing reading LM's posts when you point out the basic facts to him that Shepherd has appointed Souness and Shepherd is standing by Souness, and yet when you say "So....Shepherd....does he have to share ANY of the blame for the current situation?".

 

"Nope. All Souness's fault"

 

Unbelievable.

 

LM, you keep saying it's Souness who decides what players come in, and when he brings in a bad one, he gets both barrels - it's all his fault, and none of it is Shepherd's. By the same token, it's Shepherd who decides what manager comes in, and how long that manager then gets to do the job. How does he not then get the blame in the same way that Souness does? And it's no use saying "he's only made one mistake", given how BIG a mistake you keep telling us it's been.

[LeazesMag 0]

If he appoints a manager who delivers a trophy, then I'll say that he's made a good decision.

 

the point being, Craig, that you either agree with a choice of manager at the time or not. FS is the same as all of us. If YOU support a choice of manager who flops, you can't say Shepherd is stupid, naive etc etc when you were as well.

 

However I will still maintain that he is ultimately responsible for the reason why the club has taken such a backward step over the past 2½ years.

 

Shepherd is extremely competent at managing a balance sheet - when it comes to forward planning where the club's concerned, I think he's extremely inept...

 

Do you conceed that he sacked Robson without any fore-thought of who would be willing to replace him?

 

most definitely, although he gave him the money as a " last chance " to get it right [again, most of us were happy with the 4 new players that summer] because tbh Souness is one of the last managers i would have at SJP, [as i've said often] i wouldn't have let him anywhere near the place. But as I've also said, one bad appoointment doesn't make a bad chairman, provided he gets it right next time. If he gets it wrong next time, it will trigger a major demise of the club, I think.

 

The same Shepherd who only wants British managers who he's never approached before, the same Shepherd who said Craig Bellamy will never play for the club so long as he's involved (that one's for your benefit, not mine!), the same Shepherd who continues to give Graeme Souness his full backing?

 

i think that, at the end if the day, he will support the next manager, if he wants Bellamy back he would be back - if Shepherd didn't back his manager then he would indeed be a poor chairman and boss.

 

This is more than one bad managerial appointment tbh.

76073[/snapback]

 

who else did you not agree with at the time then, out of the 4 he's appointed ?

Edited January 8, 2006 by LeazesMag