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I think the main stream media on the right side of that coin are playing a more dangerous game than those on the left.

They're both to all intents and purposes propping up neo leberalism iyam,when even to the most casual of observers it's obvious that this system we've had for the last 35/40 years is proving to be utterly fuckin useless to the vast majority of the planet.

 

@Dr Gloom: Russia are still cunts btw :good:

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Yeah. I liked Ridley Scott's work on the recent The Man in the High Castle series. I love the first one too, obviously.

Well worth a read.

 

http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/blade-runner_shooting.html

 

The new one looks promising.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/blade-runner-2-has-best-828389

Edited by Park Life
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They're both to all intents and purposes propping up neo leberalism iyam,when even to the most casual of observers it's obvious that this system we've had for the last 35/40 years is proving to be utterly fuckin useless to the vast majority of the planet.

 

@Dr Gloom: Russia are still cunts btw :good:

 

:clapping:  :thumbup:

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:lol:

 

Getting desperate.

 

The CIA coup in Ukraine is the biggest pile of shite ever spun in Western media. I remember my brother furious at it all after all the links about it on chemtrail.id.iot or whatever it is. The evidence presented was a tapped phone call between 2 lowly European Parliament advisors who may have said something which contradicted the official story about where shots were fired from on one of the days of protest. This was presented by the Russians (who did the tapping) as proof that the official line was not true. 

 

This is what the Russians want you to believe, that Ukraine is on the brink of signing an accord with Europe that has widespread support among its people but when it looks like not being signed, the US manage to make the people of Ukraine rise up in protest (just a few CIA operatives striking matches and setting fire to the streets of Kiev) and that the uprising leads to the annexation of Crimea and a Russian army invited into Ukraine :lol: :lol: :lol: 

 

Here is the timeline of some events. 

 

November 21st 2013, the EU agreement is on the table and this man ....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arseniy_Yatsenyuk

 

and a blog on this site

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korrespondent.net

 

lead to the first protests on against the likely rejection of the EU trade deal.

 

Why does this happen? The Ukrainians were happy progressing with their move westwards in 2013, building the trade agreement when in August 2013, Russia starts a trade war that stops them getting energy from Russia and bans all their exports.

 

In the face of this economic pressure, the Ukrainian government abandons the EU agreement on Nov 21st, that same day the protests start and the first steps to war are initiated. The CIA doesnt even feature in this discussion, none of this is disputed. The only place you see this shit is from RT and alternative websites. Its so ironic that in attempting to be a truth seeker and unveil the lies of one set of 'globalists', you should fall hook line and sinker for the even more deceptive patter of their enemies. 

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They're both to all intents and purposes propping up neo leberalism iyam,when even to the most casual of observers it's obvious that this system we've had for the last 35/40 years is proving to be utterly fuckin useless to the vast majority of the planet.

 

@Dr Gloom: Russia are still cunts btw :good:

They are both part of the establishment/ mainstream/legacy media - call it what you like. I think that's where the comparison begjns and ends. Different side of the same coin ffs Edited by Dr Gloom
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The Guardian is a tad more high brow but when looking at their op ed sections I'd say yes. You and I know where that line of argument will get us though, and I remember your points from last time. Might be worth considering though that even if the Op Ed sections are not the same as the paper's actual view, plenty of people are interpreting it that way.

That's surely a failure on behalf of the Guardian.

Sigh.

 

The guardian have an view of the world which is reflected in those pages, and in their leader column, yes. We've already covered this.

 

Suggesting they go to the same lengths as the Mail so this editorial line is reflected in all their reporting is clearly nonsense.

 

If the guardian is so determined to prop up the neoliberal establishment why did it break the Snowden story? Because it's in the public interest. They are a quality, authoritative investigative news source.

 

The same goes for the FT, the nyt and many others. I've had it with people who bang on about the evils of the MSM, as if all legacy news publications are the same, while sharing the latest piece of fake news or some RT propaganda Facebook. Clueless tbh.

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Guardian aren't as bad as the Mail. Yet they continue to call ISIS 'rebels' and make out Corby is some kind of Marxist nutcase. ;)

 

I go to it first every morning before I look at anything else. It was marvelous on Snowden as you say. Been taken over by sandal wearing, avocado eating hippies this year mind.

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How much does Greenwald have to do with the guardian now Gloom?

not much. he hasn't filed for them for a few years, i don't think. i don't think that automatically means the guardian, and all other legacy media, are somehow complicit establishment stooges though. i keep reading people suggesting otherwise and it's really getting on my tits.

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'This narrative reduces Washington and its Western European allies to befuddled onlookers, whose role consisted of brokering a truce between the Yanukovych government and the violent demonstrators in Kiev’s Maidan square, which quickly broke down amid violence.

It cynically excludes the extensive evidence that the overthrow of Yanukovych was the outcome of a plan worked out by the US government to install a pro-NATO regime in Kiev and thereby weaken Russia and further Washington’s drive for hegemony in Eurasia.

Thus, the piece makes no mention of the infamous leaked telephone conversation between Washington’s point person on Ukraine, high-ranking State Department official Victoria Nuland, and the US ambassador in Kiev, Geoffrey Pyatt, in which Nuland spelled out the US role in preparing Yanukovych’s downfall. She even dictated the parts to be played by individual opposition figures in a successor government, naming “Yats” (her pet name for Arseniy Yatsenyuk) as prime minister, the post he assumed post-coup.

Nor does it refer to Nuland’s public admission in December 2013 that since 1991 Washington had pumped $5 billion into Ukraine in an attempt to secure the kind of regime it desired. Much of this money was funneled trough the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), an agency created to conduct the kind of political operations formerly overseen by the CIA. NED President Carl Gershman referred to Ukraine as “the biggest prize.”

 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/01/06/time-j06.html

 

 

"Since Ukraine's independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions, as they promote civic participation and good governance, all of which are preconditions for Ukraine to achieve its European aspirations," she said. "We have invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine." :lol:

 

They always say its about Democracy etc...Time and time again it's about Democracy...It's about Democracy. As are the 800 foreign bases...They too are about democracy.

 

Interest in Ukraine is high among the vultures. Jabba is right on it.

 

 

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http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/03/18/why-the-color-revolutions-failed/

 

 

''Samuel Huntington, summarising the mix of primary causes for the "third wave" of democratisation that began in 1974, listed a new but not decisive factor that had been absent in the preceding two waves: "Changes in the policies of external actors…a major shift in US policies toward the promotion of human rights and democracy in other countries…". American international NGOs ("Ingos") were prominent mechanisms through which this causal link between superpower foreign policy interests and regime change worked out in many transitions from authoritarian rule in the twenty-one-year-long "third wave".

 

 

 

The intention is to bring the state back into a field dominated by flawed renderings of transnational activism. The principal argument is that the main and direct causes of the colour revolutions were United States foreign-policy interests (strategic expansion, energy security and the war on terrorism) as they were serviced by Ingos. Without the intervention of these US-sponsored Ingos, the political landscapes in countries like Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan would not have been repainted in new colours.

These three revolutions – the "rose revolution" in Georgia (November 2003-January 2004), the "orange revolution" in Ukraine (January 2005) and the "tulip revolution" in Kyrgyzstan (April 2005) – each followed a near-identical trajectory; all were spearheaded by the American democratisation Ingos working at the behest of the US foreign policy establishment.

It will be argued that the comparable political convulsions of Uzbekistan (May 2005) and Azerbaijan (November 2005) did not experience "colour revolutions" due to a variation in the independent variable, US foreign-policy priorities.''

 

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/globalization-institutions_government/colour_revolutions_3196.jsp

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/9b5a2ed2-af96-11e4-b42e-00144feab7de

 

 

The wave of revolutions in the Arab world stirred deep anxieties in the Chinese Communist party about popular risings against undemocratic governments — and the chaos they can unleash. The role of western institutions and technology in stoking these revolts was noted in Beijing. The fact that the Egyptian uprising of 2011 was labelled the “Facebook revolution” and that one of its most prominent early activists was a Google executive helped to seal the fate of those two companies in China.''

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Sigh.

 

The guardian have an view of the world which is reflected in those pages, and in their leader column, yes. We've already covered this.

 

Suggesting they go to the same lengths as the Mail so this editorial line is being reflected in all their reporting is clearly nonsense.

 

If the guardian is so determined to prop up the neoliberal establishment why did it break the Snowden story? Because it's in the public interest. They are a quality, authoritative investigative news source.

 

The same goes for the FT, the nyt and many others. I've had it with people who bang on about the evils of the MSM, as if all legacy news publications are the same, while sharing the latest piece of fake news or some RT propaganda Facebook. Clueless tbh.

 

Fwiw mate, I don't share any news sources besides the Guardian on here. The thing is though, I work in academic publishing; I can easily fact check a lot of what they publish in academic journals. Perhaps I should start doing that on here - the problem is that most of them are paywalled though.

 

Anyway, I'm not getting counter information from other news sources, I'm getting it from research. I'm also able to witness observable effects of the impact of their editorial line - and it has split the left. Which actually, is my main fucking peeve with it.

 

I don't criticise the FT because I don't read it often enough to make a judgment.

 

I agree that they're a quality paper otherwise though.

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not much. he hasn't filed for them for a few years, i don't think. i don't think that automatically means the guardian, and all other legacy media, are somehow complicit establishment stooges though. i keep reading people suggest otherwise and it's really getting on my tits. 

 

The Guardian underwent a change in management a couple of years ago and their chief editor is now an American. They're also struggling financially.

 

They have definitely changed since Rusbridger left. As you would expect of course, but I think it's worth noting.

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The Guardian underwent a change in management a couple of years ago and their chief editor is now an American. They're also struggling financially.

 

They have definitely changed since Rusbridger left. As you would expect of course, but I think it's worth noting.

Thought Viner was English....

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Viner

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