Toonpack

just like the good old days. Still, its all "business". The good old days didn't have Bosman, it's called common sense same rules for everybody. Run the club like Netto, and your best players want to go because they see it for what it is. Just like your good old days. There's a fact of life that you need to get your head around. When and if certain clubs come calling you just are not going to be able to hold onto your players. The summer will be the test, if he gets sold to someone like Villa or Everton THEN you can rightly whinge. I think selling our top goalscorer to Liverpool for a record fee is a basis to "rightly whinge. Obviously you don't - but tell me when this last happened rather than the other way round when we ourselves bought the best players from other premiership clubs, something which the vast majority of people came to expect and something which someone your age should understand better - assuming you really did support the club in the 70's and 80's as you claim. First bold bit -then if you think £35m for Carrol should not be taken then you are a fool, not to mention the fact that Liverpool are still seen as a "monster" club, wrongly IMO but that's life. Not having a plan B was whinge-able but the sell decision, at that price, was a no brainer. When did that happen, when we bought the top 4-6th placed (you know the teams I mean) best players ??? you're a fool if you think you should sell your best players. You're also a fool if you think that Liverpool should be buying our best players. Liverpool were the most successful club for a lot of years, but selling them [no to mention the likes of Spurs and Villa] our best players for career and monetary reasons ? The last owners bridged that particular gap, and you're an even bigger fool if you can't accept that. You're also a fool - again - if you think we will see anywhere near that money invested in quality footballers as happened with the sale of Andy Cole as the managers decision I see you are completely avoiding the topic - every time - of supporting the club prior to 1992 ? They attracted you didn't they, now you criticise for not winning the title ? What "sheer" hypocrisy.....which answers your last point perfectly. Don't be stupid, you can't compare the club then (70/80's) to now, or the way players are handled, bosman changed everything. Oh and stick your attracted by 92 crap, I watched Alan Foggon and Micky Burns and Graham Oates and Glen Keeley and George Riley etc etc etc The only period when I didn't consistently go was when Keegan was a player here strangely enough, due to other priorities. I don't think you should sell your best players BUT I accept it as a fact of life in the modern game when those considered the established "big-boys" come knocking and turn a players head, or someone offers you a stupid amount of money, you're screwed. Everyone has their price and there is a pecking order and we ain't in that top tier (and sadly never really have been established there). Do you think for a minute the former owners would have turned down £35m for Carrol, really ?? As for the reinvestment (or not) we won't know until the summer will we (I accept FFS would likely have spent it - well what Barclays would have allowed him to) What you really need to accept is that the Keegan "glory years" were our blip, we had our Shankly moment and we screwed it up, we won nowt, and let it all slip away and it's a LONG road back. Fact: the previous owners did not ie DID NOT - sell our best players for monetary reasons or create a club whereby our best players wanted to leave to further their careers or for monetary reasons. You can dispute this all you like and make up anything you like or spin it any way you like, but this is the facts. We will NOT re-invest the 35m quid in quality footballers, read that carefully, we will not reinvest that 35m quid in quality footballers with the intention to improve the team overall from the one that Carroll played in . Understand ? I'm afraid the statement "we won nowt", true as it may be, only highlights your complete fickleness and lack of appreciation of the fact that at least we had a go, a good go, and came within 90 minutes of landing the league or the FA Cup on 4 occasions, and played in europe more than any club bar 4 in the 15 years they owned it. You show me any other owners of NUFC who have did this, which makes the Halls and Shepherd the best owners we have had at this club by a million miles and Mike Ashley is positive proof that it may take a long long time to find someone else who understands the club like they did and matches it . What a shame that people failed to appreciate and can still only look back now and criticise. That is all my point is, and what is always has been. Appreciate what happened, and accept they were good, because you might never, never see it again in your lifetime. What I really don't get my head around is people who say they were around before 1992 and failed to appreciate it and took it for granted in the end. Fools, all of them, especially when they can't admit they got it massively wrong. Spot on, under the Halls and Shepherds we were one of the big boys, we were a buying club, we didnt sell our best players and most of all we had ambition. Ashley has thrown that legacy away Clubs like Villa and Wolves are now showing far more ambition than us - we will be overtaken and left behind by clubs much smaller than us but with far more ambition The novelty of year on year survival in the premier league will soon wear off - thats the most we ever achieve under Ashley - its shameful for a club with the potential of Newcastle and yet unbelievably some people still try and defend him and compare him favourably with the previous owners Oh I'm sorry, I forgot we were in the champions league when SJH sold up, I take it all back and here's our world beating, last first eleven, of the FFS reign Given Solano Ramage Taylor Carr Milner Butt Dyer Pattison Owen Ameobi

Leazesmag

And therein lies the problem, footballers are greedy bastards looked after by greedier bastards. Even Man U and Citeh weren't immune to it even with all their success/ambition with Rooney and Tevez.

I heartily agree with the bolded bit and I would agree with all your post if we'd sold him for £15-20 million. Irrespective of Carroll staying or going, if one of the Champions league teams comes in for any of our players (or any player from ANY team not in the champs league) I'd be very surprised if we could hang onto them (even if we really really wanted to).

OF course I appreciated it you stupid cunt. BUT WE DID NOT CAPITALISE ON IT, and so are now back in the "second tier" (which is better than what we've been before), there is no magic wand to get back. The failure to maintain Champions league football is what killed us and THAT happened on FFS's watch. I agree the Halls and Shepherd WERE the best owners we had EVER, but the slip had started because we tried and we fucking failed, the slip became a landslide which thankfully has stopped and we're on the way back. Even Liver-fucking-pool have to balance their transfer activity, If Chelsea don't move for Torres, Carroll is still a Newcastle player. But at £35 million I'd snap anyone's hand off for the twat (and he is a grade A twat). You cannot say with certainty the money wont be reinvested, same as I can't say it will. The summer will tell. The only way I can see your vision of progress happening is for us to find a rich arab under a rock who wants to throw money away, and THAT just isnt going to happen. I feel heartily sorry for my two lads to be honest, they've grown up thinking NUFC is the KK/SJH/FFS at the peak version as a right (as you seem to), sadly it's not and never has been, we had our best ever shot at it and we failed, the landscape's changed now and getting back, unless these rule changes bite and our club size actually would have an effect, isn't going to happen, get used to it.

Yet another sad indictment of the modern game, before long it'll be when there's two years left. Players and agents hold all the cards. I fervently hope the Platini regulations actually have some bite, not holding my breath though. I agree but still think the club only has itself to blame on this one. They've also been more than happy to benefit from similar situations with players that have come in (nothing wrong with that but you can't have it both ways). Aye but isn't he one of them on a high wedge already, if so, we obviously had to make sure we're not doing the yo-yo before another offer could come forward and 12 months + to go should be OK as a time to talk, in those circumstances.

Yet another sad indictment of the modern game, before long it'll be when there's two years left. Players and agents hold all the cards. I fervently hope the Platini regulations actually have some bite, not holding my breath though.

what a kick in the balls but it's understandable. the carroll sale was a statement of (lack of) intent by ashley. i wouldn't blame him if he walked. i'd like to see ashley back pardew by signing enough quality players to help persuade enrique to stay but i don't see it happening. if i were enrique, i'd want out too. If he or his agent's been tapped by someone further up the tree, I would reckon we're screwed anyway, unfortunately. The Carroll sale cannot be interpreted as a lack of intent until/if and when the cash is/ain't spent in the summer. To be honest I'd have questioned Ashley's sanity if he'd not accepted that amount of cash for a player who "could" be great, but equally is one pissed up night out away from the nick. Carroll's potential is a two way street.

just like the good old days. Still, its all "business". The good old days didn't have Bosman, it's called common sense same rules for everybody. Run the club like Netto, and your best players want to go because they see it for what it is. Just like your good old days. There's a fact of life that you need to get your head around. When and if certain clubs come calling you just are not going to be able to hold onto your players. The summer will be the test, if he gets sold to someone like Villa or Everton THEN you can rightly whinge. I think selling our top goalscorer to Liverpool for a record fee is a basis to "rightly whinge. Obviously you don't - but tell me when this last happened rather than the other way round when we ourselves bought the best players from other premiership clubs, something which the vast majority of people came to expect and something which someone your age should understand better - assuming you really did support the club in the 70's and 80's as you claim. First bold bit -then if you think £35m for Carrol should not be taken then you are a fool, not to mention the fact that Liverpool are still seen as a "monster" club, wrongly IMO but that's life. Not having a plan B was whinge-able but the sell decision, at that price, was a no brainer. When did that happen, when we bought the top 4-6th placed (you know the teams I mean) best players ??? you're a fool if you think you should sell your best players. You're also a fool if you think that Liverpool should be buying our best players. Liverpool were the most successful club for a lot of years, but selling them [no to mention the likes of Spurs and Villa] our best players for career and monetary reasons ? The last owners bridged that particular gap, and you're an even bigger fool if you can't accept that. You're also a fool - again - if you think we will see anywhere near that money invested in quality footballers as happened with the sale of Andy Cole as the managers decision I see you are completely avoiding the topic - every time - of supporting the club prior to 1992 ? They attracted you didn't they, now you criticise for not winning the title ? What "sheer" hypocrisy.....which answers your last point perfectly. Don't be stupid, you can't compare the club then (70/80's) to now, or the way players are handled, bosman changed everything. Oh and stick your attracted by 92 crap, I watched Alan Foggon and Micky Burns and Graham Oates and Glen Keeley and George Riley etc etc etc The only period when I didn't consistently go was when Keegan was a player here strangely enough, due to other priorities. I don't think you should sell your best players BUT I accept it as a fact of life in the modern game when those considered the established "big-boys" come knocking and turn a players head, or someone offers you a stupid amount of money, you're screwed. Everyone has their price and there is a pecking order and we ain't in that top tier (and sadly never really have been established there). Do you think for a minute the former owners would have turned down £35m for Carrol, really ?? As for the reinvestment (or not) we won't know until the summer will we (I accept FFS would likely have spent it - well what Barclays would have allowed him to) What you really need to accept is that the Keegan "glory years" were our blip, we had our Shankly moment and we screwed it up, we won nowt, and let it all slip away and it's a LONG road back.

just like the good old days. Still, its all "business". The good old days didn't have Bosman, it's called common sense same rules for everybody. Run the club like Netto, and your best players want to go because they see it for what it is. Just like your good old days. There's a fact of life that you need to get your head around. When and if certain clubs come calling you just are not going to be able to hold onto your players. The summer will be the test, if he gets sold to someone like Villa or Everton THEN you can rightly whinge. I think selling our top goalscorer to Liverpool for a record fee is a basis to "rightly whinge. Obviously you don't - but tell me when this last happened rather than the other way round when we ourselves bought the best players from other premiership clubs, something which the vast majority of people came to expect and something which someone your age should understand better - assuming you really did support the club in the 70's and 80's as you claim. First bold bit -then if you think £35m for Carrol should not be taken then you are a fool, not to mention the fact that Liverpool are still seen as a "monster" club, wrongly IMO but that's life. Not having a plan B was whinge-able but the sell decision, at that price, was a no brainer. When did that happen, when we bought the top 4-6th placed (you know the teams I mean) best players ???

just like the good old days. Still, its all "business". The good old days didn't have Bosman, it's called common sense same rules for everybody. Run the club like Netto, and your best players want to go because they see it for what it is. Just like your good old days. There's a fact of life that you need to get your head around. When and if certain clubs come calling you just are not going to be able to hold onto your players. The summer will be the test, if he gets sold to someone like Villa or Everton THEN you can rightly whinge.

just like the good old days. Still, its all "business". The good old days didn't have Bosman, it's called common sense

The summer is the key, if (big if, I accept) we spend the Carrol cash and even then Enrique won't sign a new deal, with one year left, he has to be sold, sad but true.

Yes it does to be honest, the years since SBR have been utter shit and were trending down, last season and this have had much better "highs", in my opinion. I don't get all the incessant misery to be honest. I've enjoyed this season more than any season for years, but at the same time its been the most depressing. The realisation that the better somebody plays the less likely they are to be here next season is sickening Only if you let it sicken you, and your realisation is not proven (yet) why worry about next season, until it's here, anything you, me or anyone "thinks" just now might not ever happen. All I see just now, is a team which never knows it's beaten, appears to have pride in itself and works like fuck for the cause, what's bad about that. It's about the game after all. I do agree if someone knocks our socks off (or someone like Man U comes calling) with an offer for Enrique, for example, we'll sell him. Then again I realise if Barca or Real do the same for a Man U player he'll be sold/fuck off as well, it's just the way it is. Edit - the cure for your depression seems to be, the players can't play as well as they are so no-one'll want them which would result in a crap season/matchday experience. Or maybe we may just keep the players - again a long shot because of the way football is, but I'm a glass half full kinda blokey/codger.

Yes it does to be honest, the years since SBR have been utter shit and were trending down, last season and this have had much better "highs", in my opinion. I don't get all the incessant misery to be honest.

We may yet spend our (ridiculously high) windfall, and no he's not implying owt man!, he's keeping the players in question motivated, that's sort of his job !!!! Based on current league position, we're having our best season since 2004 thus far.

Chelsea's cash, and the little he got from Babel (or was it the other bloke). It wasnt new money. and what you want Pardew to say??? oh were fucked because they're shit

Better chance he stays if indeed that happens

I don't think you saw enough of Carr [prior to his knee recon], otherwise you wouldn't be throwing around such rash statements. ...................... btw we've signed players with dodgy fitness records as well under the previous regime, moves that payed dividends as well. A particular Andrew Cole springs to mind, and his record was shocking on this front before KK signed him. As said before they sometimes come off & sometimes they dont, that's the volatile nature of what is a speculative market. Life must be a beautiful living within the exclusive clours of black & white, when one views life through hindsight tinted glasses. Carr cost us £2m. sigh. The same summer Carr was bought [2m], Bobby Robson bought Milner [5m], Kluivert [free, but allegedly on a good contract which is the name of the game nowadays], and Butt [2.5]. Previous years to that, he bought Woodgate [9m], Bowyer [free], Viana [8m], Bramble [6m], and speculated on the potential of Ambrose. It's difficult to see how you equate such backing with that of the current owner, there is no comparison as to who backed their manager most and who attempted to show the ambition to keep the club riding high. You constantly harp on about not spending money we don't have, then complain that they should have spent more ie in the case of Carr. These signings were, as a group, all players the manager wanted to bring to the club, within sensible and acceptable financial constraints of the club, varying between speculative ones and proven ones to try and stay in europe and compete at the top levels. You either preach sensible spending or you don't. Missing the point completely, as per, comprehension boy you're a fuckin arsehole, no comprehension problems there lad. You're senile and your marbles are so long gone they've been reincarnated into full life spans of 12 different goldfish I'm right and you know it. You don't even know what the conversation is about most of the time just keep digging Are you starting to think of a new username yet Digging what? I'm laughing at you, you tool. You came on this morning with a reply completely unrelated to the conversation, as per. You're the forum's very own joke monkey. You just type random stuff. Like keep digging. Wtf omg In previous years, this week we were 2004 5th 2005 13th 2006 14th 2007 10th 2008 13th 2009 13th 2010 n/a 2011 9th Borrowed from Leazes being dismantled elsewhere (again)

Is correct. So basically, the only way to do it would be to do the opposite of what Shepherd did, put money IN to the club Actually not sure it is correct, the greater risk to Ashley is the option involving him dipping into his personal wealth. The greater risk to the club is the option where he doesnt use his own wealth to invest. Doing things on a shoestring is the least risky option and the most prudent for Ashley but risks survival in the league. What is at risk is the initial investment but that already been heavily discounted and he's also seen the club bounce back from it once. I know what alex means and i agree, its just there is more than one 'entity' under discussion i.e. Ashley and his private wealth and the club. I see what you're saying. Surely he'd have to dip into that personal wealth if we went down. I think it's all a bit moot anyway given the course he's apparently set on, i.e. reduce costs as much as possible. When Ashley first came to the club we signed Viduka, Smith and Barton all on unsustainable wages. Most people liked Mort, but I thought he was a disaster. His mismanagement of the books ultimately led to the appointment of penny pitching Llambias. I think its a bit early to say we will always be run on a shoestring. If that was the case Taylor would have been sold. What happens with Barton and Jose contracts in the summer will indicate which direction we are going in, as both seem to be enjoying their football. Mort was an arsehole. Quite a lot of supporters thought he was OK though because he wasn't Fat Fred From a totally independent/review/source http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2010/12/ne...ource=BP_recent

5un1uns Accounts: Key highlights are; Turnover is flat at £65m. However in there you have TV revenue +11% being offset by reductions in gate receipts (-9%), sponsorship (-4%), conferencing (-22%) and retail (-16%). Wages:Turnover ratio has increased to 82.2%, up from 76.8% in 2009. Loss for the year has increased to -£27.9m, up from a loss of -£26.5m in 2009. The 4 directors (Quinn, Walton, Callaghan & Byrne) paid themselves £1.12m, down from £1.94m the previous year. The highest paid director (doesn't state who) earned £326k (down from £888k in 2009). Ellis Short wrote off £19m of existing loans due from the club and invested a further £22.4m in the year to July 2010. These are interest free unsecured loans. Due to the losses made, Sunderland's directors have had to request a commitment from Ellis Short that he is willing and able to continue to support the operations of the company for the foreseeable future. Short has provided this. The club spent £39.3m in transfer fees in the year and recouped £12.0m. The club still owes £15.5m on transfer fees plus potentially another £6.5m depending on performance of players bought.

Not sure I agree on the worse pitches tbh, the modern grass is an evil bastard, let's face it, it trips up these millionaire superstars anytime they go near another player.

Ambition doesn’t equate to spunking tens of millions on new signings. Ambition in footballing terms is about wanting to fulfil your potential and loitering around the PL is way below NUFC’s potential. Take the ten year ST freeze bollocks. It’s a blatant admission the club are expecting to do jack shit over the next decade, that they have no interest in increasing their revenues though giving the punters a better product. Inflation alone will reduce our ability to bring in better players unless our revenue rises. exactly. He's another dope who doesn't seem to get it and takes a point to the extremes. If you don't need to show ambition, why do the successful clubs do it ? What a prick. At least he's not responding to me this time Tbf Leazes, you're guilty of that too. You oversimplify the matter at hand and take it to extremes too. I agree with your sentiment but ASM's view (or some of his views) have merit too. As do manc-mag's. You can just say 'ambition' is required then not qualify that. You can't just point to the previous regime as they couldn't have done things in the same way in the current climate. That's not a defence of Ashley but, on the whole, ASM doesn't defend Ashley either. manc-mag certainly doesn't. Just saying like. While I accept what you say, ASM cherry picks and genuinely thinks you can put together a good team and reach the heights of the ex board by buying exclusively from the lower leagues and bargain basements, which is simply not possible, it has never happened. MancMag too, seems to think that all I want is big money players, I've stated numerous times that buying the best proven players from other clubs is only part of it, but it lays down statements, it increases your profile and status [see maximising financial potential] and attracting other top footballers. Both come under the same barrier. Success costs money, consistent success costs big money, this has ALWAYS been the way. MancMag has made reference to "trophy players" in the thread about Benny Arentoft, then tried to say it is me derailing the thread. Pathetic. The winners take gambles, the losers sell their best players to the gamblers. Look through history, including our own, and you will see this is the reality of football. Have you said where the stake for the gamble's comming from yet ?? (if we hadn't sold Carroll) I'd love us to plash the cash and maybe we will in the summer, no excuse if we don't as we actually have some spare cash. BTW Liverpool (the gamblers) broke even on dealings in January, which is what the owners insisted on.

Was Hughtons job all but signed but he got greedy with a demand for a "keep them up" bonus, so they blew him off.

He's had/got the flu, but didn't want it to be known before the game according to the blokey who beat him