Christmas Tree

On a more general note ( and not because Im some forelock pulling commoner as you suggest), I am less interested in the education and more interested in the person. As it said in that Programme (watched half), Blair didnt beat brown because he went to private school, he beat him because he understood the people better. Again with Cameron, he didnt beat Davis because of Eton, he beat him because he was the better.

Aye, I see all of that. I was just trying to get out of Renton what his main gripe was after watching the programme. Is it that he doesnt want the brightest running the country? Does he think Thatcher was more caring because she didnt go to Eton? Would he like to see more of Prescotts ilk at it? Probably (just guessing) the biggest percentage of adults never made it to grammar school? Is he saying they should be running it because they are more representative of the majority? Just trying for a one sentence summary. Surely educated people can manage that? OK then, since you have spectacularly missed the point. To summarize in one sentence: 'It is highly unlikely that Thatcher (or any of the others listed) would have become PM without the Grammar school system, which has now been virtually abandoned'. Still dont get your point tbh and how its relevant to last nights program. The house of commons is full of MP's who went to comp and on to uni and then from working life into politics. Why cant this continue? It also has a great deal of MP's who probably have never been near a uni yet went the local councillor grass roots route.Why cant this continue? It isn't full of these people though CT, and the trend is that it's getting worse. About 70% of MPs went to a private school, but only 7% of children go to private schools. Very MPs are coming through the traditional Trade Union routes now (witness professional politicians like Cameron, Osbourne, Clegg, Blair, Brown, the Millibands etc) and it's almost mandatory to have a degree, and Oxbridge degree (preferably a 'PPE' from Oxford Magdalen college) at that if you want to get into the cabinet or shadow cabinet. This is not only unfair, but it means that parliament is not remotely representative of the people it serves. Even worse, how many potentially brilliant politicians like Thatcher (who I respect as well as hate) have their way to the commons blocked, not based on intrinsic ability, but purely into what family they were born into? Given that 93% of the population have little representation in Parliament, is it any surprise that there is so much apathy? Like I said though, you seem to be content to be ruled by the old boy network, I'm not surprised you can't see a problem here. Not according to those parliament figures. Aye, fair enough, I was wrong about that, but given the trend, give it 10 years at most. And the front benches? Edit: just noticed those figures are from 2005 as well CT, got an update? Just first results that popped up on google. But as those figures cleary show (and its no great shocker), more tories go to private schools than Labour so a change of government from Labour to mainly tory is bound to show an upwards swing, in the same way as Labour getting back in would show a downwards swing. What about the toontastic MP......Private or Comp?

Aye, I see all of that. I was just trying to get out of Renton what his main gripe was after watching the programme. Is it that he doesnt want the brightest running the country? Does he think Thatcher was more caring because she didnt go to Eton? Would he like to see more of Prescotts ilk at it? Probably (just guessing) the biggest percentage of adults never made it to grammar school? Is he saying they should be running it because they are more representative of the majority? Just trying for a one sentence summary. Surely educated people can manage that? OK then, since you have spectacularly missed the point. To summarize in one sentence: 'It is highly unlikely that Thatcher (or any of the others listed) would have become PM without the Grammar school system, which has now been virtually abandoned'. Still dont get your point tbh and how its relevant to last nights program. The house of commons is full of MP's who went to comp and on to uni and then from working life into politics. Why cant this continue? It also has a great deal of MP's who probably have never been near a uni yet went the local councillor grass roots route.Why cant this continue? It isn't full of these people though CT, and the trend is that it's getting worse. About 70% of MPs went to a private school, but only 7% of children go to private schools. Very MPs are coming through the traditional Trade Union routes now (witness professional politicians like Cameron, Osbourne, Clegg, Blair, Brown, the Millibands etc) and it's almost mandatory to have a degree, and Oxbridge degree (preferably a 'PPE' from Oxford Magdalen college) at that if you want to get into the cabinet or shadow cabinet. This is not only unfair, but it means that parliament is not remotely representative of the people it serves. Even worse, how many potentially brilliant politicians like Thatcher (who I respect as well as hate) have their way to the commons blocked, not based on intrinsic ability, but purely into what family they were born into? Given that 93% of the population have little representation in Parliament, is it any surprise that there is so much apathy? Like I said though, you seem to be content to be ruled by the old boy network, I'm not surprised you can't see a problem here. Not according to those parliament figures.

Aye, thats the way we normally do it. Just left it like that for photo effect. Must think we're right heathens in Boldon (dont answer).

Aye, I see all of that. I was just trying to get out of Renton what his main gripe was after watching the programme. Is it that he doesnt want the brightest running the country? Does he think Thatcher was more caring because she didnt go to Eton? Would he like to see more of Prescotts ilk at it? Probably (just guessing) the biggest percentage of adults never made it to grammar school? Is he saying they should be running it because they are more representative of the majority? Just trying for a one sentence summary. Surely educated people can manage that? OK then, since you have spectacularly missed the point. To summarize in one sentence: 'It is highly unlikely that Thatcher (or any of the others listed) would have become PM without the Grammar school system, which has now been virtually abandoned'. Still dont get your point tbh and how its relevant to last nights program. The house of commons is full of MP's who went to comp and on to uni and then from working life into politics. Why cant this continue? It also has a great deal of MP's who probably have never been near a uni yet went the local councillor grass roots route.Why cant this continue? Education of MPs elected in 2005 (3 main parties) Lab Con LD Fee-paying school 63 118 24 18% 60% 39% University 226 160 49 64% 81% 79% of which: Oxford & Cambridge 58 86 19 16% 43% 31% Looks fairly health still from the middle uni route. I dont understand your argument that Thatcher could not have today gone to comp then uni then politics as the vast majority of MPS do.

Aye, I see all of that. I was just trying to get out of Renton what his main gripe was after watching the programme. Is it that he doesnt want the brightest running the country? Does he think Thatcher was more caring because she didnt go to Eton? Would he like to see more of Prescotts ilk at it? Probably (just guessing) the biggest percentage of adults never made it to grammar school? Is he saying they should be running it because they are more representative of the majority? Just trying for a one sentence summary. Surely educated people can manage that?

I went to a grammar (after passing the 11+) that had just changed to comprehensive and I don't feel they dragged people down in the simplistic way people state. The "lesser" pupils obviously benefitted from the grammar school standard teachers and I never felt held back. I also consider it a good thing that I had to mix with kids from all backgrounds - probably what the programme wanted to suggest but missed (didn't see it). I think we've talked about this before and I said I do support streaming within a comprehensive system as happened where I went - I think that's the best of both worlds but obviously will only work if schools don't hog the best teachers and kids - the latter being the real problem now imo. You should watch this programme too. Think about the PMs of recent times - Wilson, Heath, Callaghan, Thatcher, and Major were all products of grammar schools, with Major being the last of that cohort. Grammar schools could compete with fee paying schools - comprehensive schools simply can't, which is why we are now seeing a reversal of the meritocracy that spanned the 60s to the 90s. Now we are in the situation where 70% of MPs have been privately educated despite accounting for only 7% of the population. Comprehensives have been proved not to work, because they can't compete with the old boy network of the public schools, and it is increasingly hard for anyone who is not privately educated to get into Oxbridge (apparently Brown is the only non-Oxbridge PM in living memeory). The system's fucked. So just sum your argument up for me in one sentence. Are you saying that Thatcher was a better PM than Blair because she went to Grammar School.

Indeed, but that's more informative than a one line from twitter isn't it. Go on then, I'll give you that.

Keep up Ant! That's last nights news.

Havent seen it yet but not sure if it makes that much difference. Theirs loads of "working class" Labour MP's in the commons already. Did you not see the Gateshead one at PMQ's this week. Could hardly put a sentence together. Do we want his ilk negogiating at the UN. The goal surely is to drag education upwards. Regardless of who is in power, it is only slight pulls from one side of centre to the other, its not as though we have really radical shifts in power. Tories normally get in and look after the middle classes where as Labour look after the so called "working class" and "underclass". Its just one big game. Tell me it doesn't matter after you've watched it then we can discuss it. Even if you don't agree with Neil it's worth watching as I said. As for dragging education upwards, I fully agree. Neil's point though was this can't happen when there is a comprehensive system dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator. At least under Grammar schools we had a meritocratic system which, at the end of the day, worked. As a result, politics was much more meritocratic in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s but now is reverting back to the 1950s and before, which is why so many people are disenfrachised with the whole thing. Tbh though CT, you seem quite the deferential 'know your place' type of guy so your views don't surprise me.

The Tourist....5/10 Utter tosh really. Only thing it had going for it was the scenery in Venice. Kicking myself for not going when I was so close in the summer. This year maybe.

Havent seen it yet but not sure if it makes that much difference. Theirs loads of "working class" Labour MP's in the commons already. Did you not see the Gateshead one at PMQ's this week. Could hardly put a sentence together. Do we want his ilk negogiating at the UN. The goal surely is to drag education upwards. Regardless of who is in power, it is only slight pulls from one side of centre to the other, its not as though we have really radical shifts in power. Tories normally get in and look after the middle classes where as Labour look after the so called "working class" and "underclass". Its just one big game. Yeah, too late for some though

Nobby

Nice one. Glad you enjoyed it. Like I say it's dead easy to modify it to make a different sauce. Well thats your next cookery lesson, to post a few varieties, particularly with cream (bye bye diet). Also when we go to our local Italian they do a dish called chicken Alexandria. This is a chicken breast covered with a delicious creamy curry / spicey sauce containing prawns. If anyone has a recipe for this sort of thing I would get major browny points. Hard to describe it really. Nothing like chinese or indian just a lovely thick creamy curry flavoured spicey source??????

Havent seen it yet but not sure if it makes that much difference. Theirs loads of "working class" Labour MP's in the commons already. Did you not see the Gateshead one at PMQ's this week. Could hardly put a sentence together. Do we want his ilk negogiating at the UN. The goal surely is to drag education upwards. Regardless of who is in power, it is only slight pulls from one side of centre to the other, its not as though we have really radical shifts in power. Tories normally get in and look after the middle classes where as Labour look after the so called "working class" and "underclass". Its just one big game.

Not in Roberts league by a long shot. I didnt say that. Robert was great, but at times he was frsutrating as fuck. Like taking 5 corners and 4 of them not clearing the front man. Jonas is similar, he is a good player, just frustrating. So he's like Robert without the good bits.

Not in Roberts league by a long shot.

How disgusting! A grey tie! Yuk. (which ones Leazes)

Bit addictive like!!!!

Ya think

Ok last one, dragged it down enough.

At least I can say I had a go

Same north east journo who is twittering about Carroll also says....