LeazesMag

More important for me is the ability to trust the powers that be. The powers that be who stated that the money (35m) from the Andy Carroll sale would be spent on improving the squad. I'd have less of an issue if they could be honest and upfront with their intentions. Some of the purchases have been wonderful, but I'd enjoy them even more if I could do away with the nagging feeling that the better our players perform the more likely our owners are to cash in on them. pointless talking to the gimps of the forum mate.

minus Krul, if current rumours are to be believed ? Then what ? Interesting example, a player who cost us nothing, yet adequately replaced a player sold for £6m. That must mean he's no good right? it's pointless talking to people like you.

i like your optimism. the cynic in me is forcing me not to get too excited just yet. i'll be more likely to agree with that if we make it through till the end of the month without selling a key player. the manner in which we sold carroll is still fresh in the mind... stop moaning man, you had owners who kept our best players, and still fucking moaned about them. Aye, because we kept a great hold of Speed, Bellamy, Solano etc when we were sliding down the table didn't we? Installed a manager to spend £50million to make the squad worse too. Why do we need to spend £30+million received for Carroll when we've signed a highly-rated player for less than a third of that? Football's changed - our owner is far from perfect but at the moment we're competitive without spunking stupid money on players. Liverpoo's front two cost over £50million and they're below us in the table! Why don't you fuck off and support them instead of moaning that we only spent £8-10million on Cisse! like everything else mate, so long as the manager is doing well with his resources, it covers the strategy, but only to a certain degree. The reality is that operating a sell and replace policy will never, ever bring the success a big club ought to achieve, whereas a retain, build, back the manager and improve policy is the one that has been proven to bring success ever since competitive football began. Mike Ashley will not make the final gamble, ever, he will always fall short, because he is only out for a profit and to run a premiership football club alongside his sporting empire, he will sell a player to make an operational profit rather than gamble on the big money to be gained in europe. This 27m quid remaining from the Carroll sale is just the start, buying a cheaper replacement, however good, is no excuse for not using the rest to attempt to move on further, it will not happen.

but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. It's clearly progress as a team, that much is irrefutable, (it's just not progress at the rate Leazes wants iyam), but for a relegation tipped side we're doing well. You're right about where we need to be strengthening yet (and retention is another matter altogether of course and every bit as important) but I think there was some telling stuff from casino boy who was going on about this sort of signing 'being ideal for the team Pardew's building'. I think that's just code for saying that we're not going to rush to buy a player unless the price is right. We'd been interested previously apparently but not prepared to pay £14 million. So I spose even if the 'Carroll money' was still ringfenced somewhere in a vault (not that it is) theres an argument for saying you dont just spend it immediately because you've got it, because you can end up with any old shit for mega money. I think they drive that austerity too hard btw as no club should ever be left without a striker as we were after Carroll left and I think it was fortunate that didnt hit us harder, but we've now ended up with Ba and Cisse for circa £10 mill combined. If the context is a club that hasnt won anything in the modern game, surely theres some sense in trying to progress steadily, particularly given our biggest asset, which is the apparent unity of the team. Perhaps different if you're a constant CL presence and cant afford one season out of it, maybe then you do go for broke, but that hasn't been us for the best part of a decade. Yeah, spot on that. Agree with all of it tbh. Yep. Pretty much accurate. It shows that the club are prepared to spend when it suits them and as much as I dislike Ashley I have no shame in admitting that it is a good strategy going forward. Especially considering what we are up against in terms of the finances of some of the clubs around us. Aye, the latter point theres just no sense in ignoring-it has to be acknowledged. I spose we could take the rigid view you get in £35 million on a sale and recycle it instantly on a £35 million spend, but that's likely to get you paying over the odds and possibly in situations where you're just buying to find a replacement for a position rather than a player you're particularly interested in from a team point of view. At the end of the day our money is going to have to go further than the likes of Man C/Chelsea/Liverpool/Man U if we want to push on. Obviously he could put his own coin in but he's not going to so that argument is just beyond pointless dealing with the reality of the matter. As I say, I think we've had some fortune where we've seen too much austerity recently, but perhaps you get away with it more when the team spirit is there as the collective effort is greater to compensate for individual areas of weakness. The one thing for certain is it gets a bit daft looking at it any other way than asking; are we progressing on the pitch? We have and we are. The thing is 99.999999999% of fans agree with this, 0.000000001% dont. do you mean match-goers or out of towners ?

but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. how much more revenue do you need, further to 14th biggest in football, to not have to sidetrack money from sales to other areas of the club and back your managers ? Or pocket it. However it disappears........ What's the odds someone else will be sold for big money again, and the scenario continues. Well, in an ideal world more money would be available, maybe it is tbh - I live in hope. I haven't done the maths but I think it's fair to assume not all of the Carroll money has gone directly into player recruitment. But then again, the club was running at a massive loss when we went down. Now, that's Ashley's fault (relegation at least) but I make the point because the Carroll sale can't be taken in isolation - i.e. to ignore all that went before and demand the full £35m goes on transfers just isn't realistic. I mean you haven't even figured in the £6m-ish spent on Ben Arfa in the same window Carroll left. s that fair? I'm all for criticising Ashley when I think it's due but the criticism has to be fair otherwise it'll just be shown up for what it is - bias. I still don't like or trust him btw, before you accuse me of fallatio the ultimate proof will be when he starts to keep the core of best players, and start to build and improve, rather than sell and replace. This is what Toonpack hoped/thought he would do last summer, when he said for ages he would "revise his opinion of Mike Ashley after the deadline" then scuttled into his hole when it didn't happen. We all HOPE this will happen, but it won't. I stand by what I've always said. This is the point, he will not build properly. He is happy with using the club as a vehicle for Sports Direct, making small profits and will sell a player if this is not achieved, because its easier than gambling on Champions League qualification. I'm not knocking this approach from his point of view, just saying what he will do, and saying that this is not what I as a supporter of the club want. I don't know why people get so defensive about this, its as if they simply can't bring themselves to admit it or something ie the fact he will NEVER do as well as his predecessors. As i said yesterday, its a blind spot they seem to have, but its a fact whether it suits them or not. I agree about hanging onto the players like. It's a concern because there's only a handful of players been here more than a couple of seasons. Until that trend is reversed the accusations of us being a selling club etc. won't go away. There's also the wage ceiling which is problematic to say the least once a 'more ambitious' club comes knocking. However, I was specifically talking about what's happened post-Carroll ('cherry picking' if you like ) so while I'm cynical about the longer term, I'm at least happy to give some credit where it's due. You surely must be happy about the players we've brought in recently (on the whole). To reiterate, it's on the pitch that matters, no? I can see that you are still hopeful that he will start to retain and build, rather than sell and replace. unfortunately, I'm 100% it isn't going to happen and saying so. I've said for over 4 years this was the aim so I'm not changing my stance now. It's fine to be cautious, which is what alex is saying. But to maintain that things that are no longer true HAVE to be true because you've spent the last 4 years saying they are..... Well that's just stupidity. it's stupid to say things are changing when they are still sitting on 27m of pocketed cash from sales. We will see who leaves the club in the next window or two, shall we ?

I think its my own personal antidote to Leazes kicking in. Sort of like a positive adrenalin. I keep seeing Alex's measured calm responses to LM and thinking why cant I do that when in reality Im sitting here raging at his constant depressive whining in every flipping thread. I realise he has problems and all that but if someone like Alex can enjoy the here and now then anyone can. Calm calm think happy thoughts la la la la la.... the only problem I have, is wondering where this 27m quid has gone

minus Krul, if current rumours are to be believed ? Then what ? Then we put someone else in between the sticks you miserable twat. like you ? Are you cheap ?

i like your optimism. the cynic in me is forcing me not to get too excited just yet. i'll be more likely to agree with that if we make it through till the end of the month without selling a key player. the manner in which we sold carroll is still fresh in the mind... stop moaning man, you had owners who kept our best players, and still fucking moaned about them.

and when I am proved to be correct ? Again ? What then ? What does your post have to do with the post you quote? Mine was an explanation of arguing techniques, yours is a demand for.. well I don't know what, but it's got nothing to do with anything I've said in the post you quote. Also, Leazes, why have you posted more about the rumours surrounding Krul, than you did about Cisse? It's like you'd be happy if Krul left if for no other reason than you'd feel it added weight to your position. another ludicrous insinuation ie that I would pay 1350 for 3 years season tickets and hope we fail. You're barking mad, and also not doing your job as policeman of the board very well.

open your eyes.

but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. how much more revenue do you need, further to 14th biggest in football, to not have to sidetrack money from sales to other areas of the club and back your managers ? Or pocket it. However it disappears........ What's the odds someone else will be sold for big money again, and the scenario continues. Well, in an ideal world more money would be available, maybe it is tbh - I live in hope. I haven't done the maths but I think it's fair to assume not all of the Carroll money has gone directly into player recruitment. But then again, the club was running at a massive loss when we went down. Now, that's Ashley's fault (relegation at least) but I make the point because the Carroll sale can't be taken in isolation - i.e. to ignore all that went before and demand the full £35m goes on transfers just isn't realistic. I mean you haven't even figured in the £6m-ish spent on Ben Arfa in the same window Carroll left. s that fair? I'm all for criticising Ashley when I think it's due but the criticism has to be fair otherwise it'll just be shown up for what it is - bias. I still don't like or trust him btw, before you accuse me of fallatio the ultimate proof will be when he starts to keep the core of best players, and start to build and improve, rather than sell and replace. This is what Toonpack hoped/thought he would do last summer, when he said for ages he would "revise his opinion of Mike Ashley after the deadline" then scuttled into his hole when it didn't happen. We all HOPE this will happen, but it won't. I stand by what I've always said. This is the point, he will not build properly. He is happy with using the club as a vehicle for Sports Direct, making small profits and will sell a player if this is not achieved, because its easier than gambling on Champions League qualification. I'm not knocking this approach from his point of view, just saying what he will do, and saying that this is not what I as a supporter of the club want. I don't know why people get so defensive about this, its as if they simply can't bring themselves to admit it or something ie the fact he will NEVER do as well as his predecessors. As i said yesterday, its a blind spot they seem to have, but its a fact whether it suits them or not. I agree about hanging onto the players like. It's a concern because there's only a handful of players been here more than a couple of seasons. Until that trend is reversed the accusations of us being a selling club etc. won't go away. There's also the wage ceiling which is problematic to say the least once a 'more ambitious' club comes knocking. However, I was specifically talking about what's happened post-Carroll ('cherry picking' if you like ) so while I'm cynical about the longer term, I'm at least happy to give some credit where it's due. You surely must be happy about the players we've brought in recently (on the whole). To reiterate, it's on the pitch that matters, no? I can see that you are still hopeful that he will start to retain and build, rather than sell and replace. unfortunately, I'm 100% it isn't going to happen and saying so. I've said for over 4 years this was the aim so I'm not changing my stance now.

minus Krul, if current rumours are to be believed ? Then what ?

haha. Rubbish. Stop insinuating falsehoods, I thought you were the board policeman and are picking people up for this sort of thing ? I'm not insinuating falsehoods. You've said that until the "other £27m is invested" you won't be happy, which means that any money recouped through transfer deals, you want spent on transfer deals. So despite improving the squad, you're not happy. Despite having a strike force which have a goal scoring record, you're not happy. Despite a central midfield which is the envy of the majority of the league, you're not happy. Despite being 6th and buying the targets identified by Pardew, you're not happy. see a pattern? no, you said " if we sold our entire squad for a sum total of £500m and bought the very best players in every position for a sum total of anything less than £500m you wouldn't be happy." That is a false insinuation, and its also crap. You said - also - you would in your role of board policeman, clamp down on such false insinuations, but are now doing it yourself ? Fine, I clarify because you're being pedantic. I was not making a false insinuation I was using a debating method to reduce your argument to it's furthest point, reductio ad ridiculum. To reduce to ridiculous. aye of course, thats different. Of course it is; a false insinuation is that you're mentally ill. Reductio ad ridiculum is to say that because Gemmil mocks you, he advocates everybody bullying every older person. If you can't see the difference perhaps the former statement isn't such a falsehood after all and when I am proved to be correct ? Again ? What then ?

get yourself a pair of long range specs and fuck off. Answer the question. I've asked you a few notable questions, not all football related. Answer those, or fuck off you silly arsehole, and go back to drinking at work.

but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. how much more revenue do you need, further to 14th biggest in football, to not have to sidetrack money from sales to other areas of the club and back your managers ? Or pocket it. However it disappears........ What's the odds someone else will be sold for big money again, and the scenario continues. Well, in an ideal world more money would be available, maybe it is tbh - I live in hope. I haven't done the maths but I think it's fair to assume not all of the Carroll money has gone directly into player recruitment. But then again, the club was running at a massive loss when we went down. Now, that's Ashley's fault (relegation at least) but I make the point because the Carroll sale can't be taken in isolation - i.e. to ignore all that went before and demand the full £35m goes on transfers just isn't realistic. I mean you haven't even figured in the £6m-ish spent on Ben Arfa in the same window Carroll left. s that fair? I'm all for criticising Ashley when I think it's due but the criticism has to be fair otherwise it'll just be shown up for what it is - bias. I still don't like or trust him btw, before you accuse me of fallatio the ultimate proof will be when he starts to keep the core of best players, and start to build and improve, rather than sell and replace. This is what Toonpack hoped/thought he would do last summer, when he said for ages he would "revise his opinion of Mike Ashley after the deadline" then scuttled into his hole when it didn't happen. We all HOPE this will happen, but it won't. I stand by what I've always said. This is the point, he will not build properly. He is happy with using the club as a vehicle for Sports Direct, making small profits and will sell a player if this is not achieved, because its easier than gambling on Champions League qualification. I'm not knocking this approach from his point of view, just saying what he will do, and saying that this is not what I as a supporter of the club want. I don't know why people get so defensive about this, its as if they simply can't bring themselves to admit it or something ie the fact he will NEVER do as well as his predecessors. As i said yesterday, its a blind spot they seem to have, but its a fact whether it suits them or not.

get yourself a pair of long range specs and fuck off.

Piss off you arsehole.

but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. how much more revenue do you need, further to 14th biggest in football, to not have to sidetrack money from sales to other areas of the club and back your managers ? Or pocket it. However it disappears........ What's the odds someone else will be sold for big money again, and the scenario continues.

what planet have you come from

but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ?

haha. Rubbish. Stop insinuating falsehoods, I thought you were the board policeman and are picking people up for this sort of thing ? I'm not insinuating falsehoods. You've said that until the "other £27m is invested" you won't be happy, which means that any money recouped through transfer deals, you want spent on transfer deals. So despite improving the squad, you're not happy. Despite having a strike force which have a goal scoring record, you're not happy. Despite a central midfield which is the envy of the majority of the league, you're not happy. Despite being 6th and buying the targets identified by Pardew, you're not happy. see a pattern? no, you said " if we sold our entire squad for a sum total of £500m and bought the very best players in every position for a sum total of anything less than £500m you wouldn't be happy." That is a false insinuation, and its also crap. You said - also - you would in your role of board policeman, clamp down on such false insinuations, but are now doing it yourself ? Fine, I clarify because you're being pedantic. I was not making a false insinuation I was using a debating method to reduce your argument to it's furthest point, reductio ad ridiculum. To reduce to ridiculous. aye of course, thats different.

officially joined the ranks of the clueless, who won't be told anything.

Fish has got him eating his shit and begging for another plateful. so remind me again, didn't you disagree with me when i told you the club was going to be run like a selling club, as a sideline for Sports Direct, and would get nowhere near the Champions League, settling for survival, pocketing the cash from sales etc etc ? As usual, you say absolutely nothing. You're even blocking me because you know that I've made a complete arse of you. Even deaders has more idea than you have.

its quite straightforward tbh. You're not one of the stupid ones, I don't see how you can't see it. Why do you think 27m quid should be pocketed and the club should stand still rather than attempt to keep moving forward ? That is what we are talking about here, aren't we ?

who said I didn't like it ? I just think there is a lot more to be demanded. Expecting the club to back their managers, especially with the entire money from sales, is a complete no brainer, why on earth would you want the cash to be pocketed and not handed to the manager as a supporter of the club ? You could do a lot with 27m quid, isn't that supposed to be the reason Carroll was sold ?