NJS

Even with my attitude I found the Horizon a while ago about art fakes in Israel shocking when it stated that there is absolutely no physical evendence for any event in the bible.

The thought of "God fucking with you" is one that has crossed my mind - because I know if I was him I'd have loved to have thought of it.

As I've said before I really want to have respect for people on this but I find the irrationality immensely frustrating - apologies if I go too far. On the point above I disagree the strongest. If all religious "instruction" was prohibited until people were adults a miniscule number would believe compared to how many do now. I accept that "thinking" people can come to a position of faith at any time but for the vast majority the indoctrination from birth is the key. This is why I feel so strongly about religion's position in schools.

Spot someone who didn't go to a catholic school which I assume will also be true of all the wonderful new faith schools of other colours - we were informed (in "reasonable" terms) that the bible was 100% the word of god and therefore indisputable. We also were taught proper history/science but nobody had the sense or courage to dispute the contradictions.

Theres no such thing as "religious theories" - thats the point - its all "beliefs" that you have to take on without question. If you teach religion then you have to teach them all as they are all as equally as "valid" as each other - it would leave no room for anything else in the curriculum. "Some people need to grow up" Some people need to escape brainwashing and think. BTW Evolution is as much "truth" as the earth orbiting the sun or the roman occupation of Britain - "theories" supported my masses of evidence.

I recorded Horizon last night to watch at the weekend. ID is a classic - "My tiny brain can't comprehend the timeframes involved with evoloution and is blind to all the evidence so when I see something as complicated as an eye God MUST have designed it".

I think its now illegal to give a "bad" reference - I think the worst they can do is give one that sounds like Gemmill's format.

British Views on Evolution The next time anyone says education in this country is anywhere near okay then quote this - obviously its twisted by the usual religion influence but I wouldn't be more disgusted if the same proportions insisted 2+2=5 or the Battle of Hastings was in 1065. This needs action imo. Of course the fact that the idiot in No 10 defended Vardy's brainwashing academies doesn't help.

I read recently that the vast majority of the (admittedly few) murders in Switzerland are carried out using the "compulsory" home gun. I know if you want to kill someone then you'd probably find a way but having deadly weapons to hand can't help.

I remember reading that there are 51million registered guns in Texas - thats 3 per head of population. I also noticed "had been suspended for bringing a weapon before" - suspended?

I had a forlon hope after yesterday that they may come to the old classic "mutual agreement" with FF making him an offer of say half the full amount to resign. The difference between 1.5m and 3m when you're already loaded is different to how we'd see it imo.

Just watched the second part - He said pretty much what I would have said - especially his opinion that if an "untainted" and rational person had the major religions explained to them they would think it was "barking mad" - and that indoctrination of children is tantamount to mental abuse. I'm also glad he stated my view that morals for the sake of the actual morals are "more noble" than morals adhered to from fear of damnation or promise of reward. That pastors idea tha the only religion stops people from being rapists and murderers I found particularly "evil" in the true sense. I also loved the fact that he explained that morals have a Darwinian purpose and that that they are therefore much older and more natural than any religion.

Thats why christianity is schizophrenic - the OT God is one of revenge - the NT God is one of forgiveness. People choose which one to quote when it suits their needs.

There are elements of the CofE/Royal Family relationship that could be used to "claim" it but bums on seats as a sign of "positive" belief counts imo.

The vast majority don't give a damn about the bible either despite your frequent referrals to this being a christian country but the point remains that if he is only "preaching" a holy book (of any kind) then its maybe the book that should be looked at. 82262[/snapback] they may not go to church but still accept the Bible as THE pillar of our religious belief The arsehole shouldn't be allowed to spout the koran, it is irrelevant to the law, if he thinks it is above it he should fuck off to where it is 82266[/snapback] 90% of people don't bother going to church yet you still state "the pillar of OUR religious belief" - when will you get it that calling Britain a christian country just doesn't hold water? The bible is irrelevant to just as many people as those who find the koran irrelevant, however as published documents they SHOULD both be subject to british laws imo.

The vast majority don't give a damn about the bible either despite your frequent referrals to this being a christian country but the point remains that if he is only "preaching" a holy book (of any kind) then its maybe the book that should be looked at.

Perhaps I went too far with "anything" - I think completely false allegations should be able to be challenged and I'd accept that its possible for a Hamza to go too far but I just recoil at the old student "no platform for facists" kind of thinking where freedom to speak is limited.

and the relevance is ? 82253[/snapback] Both the OT and the Koran (the former more so I think) advocate killing and/or making slaves of non-believers. Hamza is starting to use this as a defence.

Its not its shite or not that matters but the ability to spout it. One of the things I hate Thatcher for is her stated ambition "To kill socialism" - now you could argue thanks to Tony she's succeeded but it was the fact that she wanted to kill an idea that I found offensive - no matter what the idea is.

How far do you take it though? People committing crimes could easily say "Well because of x's remarks I thought it was okay" - when those remarks could be quite tame - going back to football for an example how about I love to go a wandering.... Obviously we're arguing over what "incitement" actually means but since even going to extremes neither of these two actually said "I urge you to kill asians/jews" its all about semantics. I'd also argue that until cases are brought against the old testament and the koran the law is a joke in this area imo.

Anyone read the classic quote from Alfie Conn who was the other player - he said people kept asking him "How could you jump the Dyke?"

In my slightly misguided but enjoyable youth, before I had a season ticket in the early 80s I used to stand in the Leazes (later crappy one) next to the away fans. I remember the coppers warning people that singing "We hate cockneys" was an arrestable offence because it incited other people to cause trouble. I always had a problem with this as I thought the emphasis of blame should always lie with the actual doer in "unpaid" cases. I honestly think anyone should be allowed to say anything - I don't think there are degrees fo freedom of speech - you either have it or you don't. What these two spout is shite - but I think they should have the right to spout it.

Thats the problem with the latest proposals of trust schools - they will know that their income will depend on the income of their kid's parents and will start recruiting on "poshness" for want of a better word thus perpetuating the divide. What they need to do is find out the root key to good results which I hope isn't as simple as class/location or faith and apply it everywhere [/idealist]

The thing is theres a correlation between faith schools and good results - parents/politicians add 2 and 2 and make 5 - they think its the faith element that matters instead of looking at other factors. I went to a catholic school which did overdo the god element but at the same time I felt that the good results came more from the fact that the kids were brought up "right" and worked harder/behaved. By this I don't mean only catholics behave or have intelligence but the morals which I don't think have to be linked to a god are pretty good (as I've always said). As long as the curriculum keeps it to a minimum (I'd not teach it at all a la USA) then the actual education element isn't that bad. The divisive social aspects are however a timebomb imo.

I recorded it but havem't watched it yet. I did however watch the first one on Sunday - I'd agree with GF that he was a bit took "meek" (and so will inherit the earth ) with the nutters but sometimes thats a better way to get them to show themselves up than "How fucking stupid are you?"