Jimbo 133 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Spotted this in the Sunday Mirror, thought it was funny following the article in the Times recently that was trying to suggest the oposite. EXCLUSIVE Survey shows bad news for Toon bossBy Paul Smith 18/11/2007 Sam Allardyce prides himself on taking an innovative, analytical approach to football. But the Newcastle manager will be disappointed by the results of a survey of the Premier League season so far by a leading management consultancy firm. Catalyst are experts who predict the outcome of English league clubs. And with one-third of the 2007-08 season played, their figures show that NEWCASTLE are the lowest performing club in the top flight who have yet to change their manager this season. The only sides who have under-performed more than Allardyce's men are TOTTENHAM and BOLTON - who have both sacked the man who was in charge at the start of the season. Catalyst's figures show Newcastle have under-achieved by 25 per cent, despite having twice as many points at this stage of the season as a year ago. Catalyst's analysis breaks the 20 Premier League sides into four tiers of five clubs each: Tier 1: Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham. Tier 2: Newcastle, Everton, Aston Villa, Blackburn, Portsmouth. Tier 3: Manchester City, Bolton, West Ham, Reading, Middlesbrough. Tier 4: Sunderland, Fulham, Birmingham, Wigan, Derby. Catalyst calculate the effectiveness of each team and compare their performance against teams from the different tiers. Spurs - a Tier 1 club based on their fifth-place finishes in the last two seasons - are the biggest under-achievers, despite being second in the Premier League on goals scored per game - 1.77. The biggest over-achievers according to Catalyst are, not surprisingly, MANCHESTER CITY, a Tier 3 club who are currently in the top three of the Premier League. Catalyst's findings show City have a 100 per cent record when winning at half-time and have dropped only two points after going ahead. Fulham and PORTSMOUTH are both 20 per cent up on expectations. Fulham are top of the league for first-half performances, while Pompey are third in the league based on second-half displays. Catalyst's findings on other clubs so far: Arsenal: Scored 41 per cent of their goals in the last 15 minutes. Man Utd: Only 44 per cent effective against Tier 3 sides. Chelsea: Only 33 per cent effective against top two Tiers. Liverpool: Top for away form, with 2.33 points per game. Blackburn: Concede 36 per cent of goals in last 15 minutes. Aston Villa: 100 per cent record against Tiers 2, 3 and 4 at home. Everton: Best disciplinary record. West Ham: Score 72 per cent of their goals in the second half. Reading: Have lost all seven games when behind at half-time. Birmingham: Yet to score in first 15 minutes of second half but have conceded five. SUNDERLAND: 17th on away form ranking with 0.29 points per game. Middlesbrough: Only 11 per cent effective against top three Tiers. Wigan: Yet to take a point from a Tier 1 or 2 side. Derby: Bottom on goals scored, conceded and home form and joint bottom with Wigan on away form. OVERALL CONCLUSIONS Arsenal are on target to equal Chelsea's 2004-05 record of 95 points. Manchester United are on target for only 88 points. The bottom eight in the table are all on target to finish with 35 points or fewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9064 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 lies damn lies and statistics how can we possibly have under achieved when we've had our best start to a season in 30 years? You can be excused for believing there is a media agenda against our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 31 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 lies damn lies and statistics how can we possibly have under achieved when we've had our best start to a season in 300 years? You can be excused for believing there is a media agenda against our club. Might as well read that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jusoda Kid 1 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 lies damn lies and statistics how can we possibly have under achieved when we've had our best start to a season in 30 years? You can be excused for believing there is a media agenda against our club. After reading four of todays papers I think you're right...definitely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 133 Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 The table doesn't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9064 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 The table doesn't lie. it might not lie, but it certain;y doesn't come close to disclosing the full story either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 133 Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 The table doesn't lie. it might not lie, but it certain;y doesn't come close to disclosing the full story either! Very true, but ultimately, it is the only statistic that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9064 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 The table doesn't lie. it might not lie, but it certain;y doesn't come close to disclosing the full story either! Very true, but ultimately, it is the only statistic that counts. Only if we are to gauge success over one season and in the league alone. We HAVE to wait a couple of seasons to get a true picture of Sam's effect on the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 133 Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 The table doesn't lie. it might not lie, but it certain;y doesn't come close to disclosing the full story either! Very true, but ultimately, it is the only statistic that counts. Only if we are to gauge success over one season and in the league alone. We HAVE to wait a couple of seasons to get a true picture of Sam's effect on the club I don't disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3232 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 The table doesn't lie. it might not lie, but it certain;y doesn't come close to disclosing the full story either! Very true, but ultimately, it is the only statistic that counts. Only if we are to gauge success over one season and in the league alone. We HAVE to wait a couple of seasons to get a true picture of Sam's effect on the club I don't disagree. I think I might. I am unsure as to why in Football you have to allow someone to under perform for 2 years before intervening. Also don't know why (not saying this has not happened) but Mort or Ashley have not pulled SA in and said the performances have not been acceptable what do you plan to do to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 31 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Id be very surprised if that question hasnt been asked. As for how we are doing, Id say reserve judgement until after Xmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Catalyst's figures show Newcastle have under-achieved by 25 per cent, despite having twice as many points at this stage of the season as a year ago. How do they arrive at that figure? However they did it, it seems flawed. Last year we finished below 3 of the teams in the tier BELOW ours and lower than everyone in the same tier. Plus it doesn't seem to account at all for the form of the teams played against this season. Playing a team performing above expectation this year or at their regular high standard should be accounted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelie 103 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 We HAVE to wait a couple of seasons to get a true picture of Sam's effect on the club Well I certainly don't agree with you there Mr. Fish, that's tatamount to saying if his first season proves to be a disaster we have to wait another season to get a better picture of what effect he has on the club. I don't think Dinnis, Charlton, Ardilles, Gullit, Dalglish, Roeder, were given two full seasons to get a true picture of their effect on the club so why on earth are you saying Sam should. I dearly want Sam to succeed to some degree at Newcastle this season but if we finish in the bottom half of the table that's effect enough for me to realise we haven't got what we paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9064 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 We HAVE to wait a couple of seasons to get a true picture of Sam's effect on the club Well I certainly don't agree with you there Mr. Fish, that's tatamount to saying if his first season proves to be a disaster we have to wait another season to get a better picture of what effect he has on the club. I don't think Dinnis, Charlton, Ardilles, Gullit, Dalglish, Roeder, were given two full seasons to get a true picture of their effect on the club so why on earth are you saying Sam should. I dearly want Sam to succeed to some degree at Newcastle this season but if we finish in the bottom half of the table that's effect enough for me to realise we haven't got what we paid for. So, despite utter tripe for the past few seasons, finishing in the bottom half, this man needs to finish... where for you to support him? 10th 9th? What exactly must he achieve in his first 12 months to warrant support from ye olde timers? I'm saying stop condemning the man after 12 league games in charge, not postpone all opinion until half way through the following season. 12 league games for Gods sake, and hardly a week goes by without one key man or another being injured... it's preposterous to expect him to have made wholesale changes to the coaching regime, the training regime, the mindset of the club, the mindset on the pitch, the formations, the attitude and to do all this under the most disproportionate pressure in the Premiership. We're a mid-table club, we have been for years, we need to stabilise before we assault the summit. Your ridiculous impatience is the very reason we've lacked a firm foundation to build anything upon. We're light years away from Man U and Arsenal and to expect that level of performances from these players is crazy. We're rocky at the moment, sure, but the way people are carrying on you'd expect to see NUFC propping up the table, with no wins and now goals scored. Get a fucking grip! at the very least give him four games after the January window closes. Four games to bed in any new players he's signed, four games to bring his changes to the club, four games to really make a push for whatever position we're aiming for at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3232 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 We HAVE to wait a couple of seasons to get a true picture of Sam's effect on the club Well I certainly don't agree with you there Mr. Fish, that's tatamount to saying if his first season proves to be a disaster we have to wait another season to get a better picture of what effect he has on the club. I don't think Dinnis, Charlton, Ardilles, Gullit, Dalglish, Roeder, were given two full seasons to get a true picture of their effect on the club so why on earth are you saying Sam should. I dearly want Sam to succeed to some degree at Newcastle this season but if we finish in the bottom half of the table that's effect enough for me to realise we haven't got what we paid for. So, despite utter tripe for the past few seasons, finishing in the bottom half, this man needs to finish... where for you to support him? 10th 9th? What exactly must he achieve in his first 12 months to warrant support from ye olde timers? I'm saying stop condemning the man after 12 league games in charge, not postpone all opinion until half way through the following season. 12 league games for Gods sake, and hardly a week goes by without one key man or another being injured... it's preposterous to expect him to have made wholesale changes to the coaching regime, the training regime, the mindset of the club, the mindset on the pitch, the formations, the attitude and to do all this under the most disproportionate pressure in the Premiership. We're a mid-table club, we have been for years, we need to stabilise before we assault the summit. Your ridiculous impatience is the very reason we've lacked a firm foundation to build anything upon. We're light years away from Man U and Arsenal and to expect that level of performances from these players is crazy. We're rocky at the moment, sure, but the way people are carrying on you'd expect to see NUFC propping up the table, with no wins and now goals scored. Get a fucking grip! at the very least give him four games after the January window closes. Four games to bed in any new players he's signed, four games to bring his changes to the club, four games to really make a push for whatever position we're aiming for at that point. To be playing a coherent system which suits the players at his disposal and for said players to be totally comfortable in the system they are asked to play. And if the system is not working then for a coherent plan B be available for him to implement with the smallest amount of change possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qscqscqsc 0 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 impressive report, very accurate imo. Although maybe un realistic to have mancity in tier 3, given the total change around at the club over the summer. Tier 1: Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham. Tier 2: Newcastle, Everton, Aston Villa, Blackburn, Portsmouth. Tier 3: Manchester City, Bolton, West Ham, Reading, Middlesbrough. Tier 4: Sunderland, Fulham, Birmingham, Wigan, Derby. we HAVE underachieved by not beating derby and reading and man city. For me the most damning stat is......"Reading: Have lost all seven games when behind at half-time." shows SA got the tactics totally wrong against them, by starting with defensive line up. SA is currently out of his depth, but i feel he might possibly recover. imo give him till end january and them asses the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 impressive report, very accurate imo. Can't agree with that like. The most damning indictment of it is the bloke who wrote it. It's the same fella who wrote the shite about Ashley chasing Redknapp. He seems to be on a one man crusade to get Allardyce out. Anyone got an email address for this twat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9064 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 To be playing a coherent system which suits the players at his disposal and for said players to be totally comfortable in the system they are asked to play. And if the system is not working then for a coherent plan B be available for him to implement with the smallest amount of change possible. is it fair to expect anyone to know what system works best with players without trying said system? is it fair to expect this knowledge to be apparent without the players available to play in the system? Is it fair to say that this one system is likely to be the same game in, game out? so is it it fair to demand success without a reliable system, without the 1st choice 11 when the opposition are as different as chalk and cheese? I'm not saying the man is beyond reproach, but he's being judged far too harshly by some very impatient people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 He's made tactical blunders beyond my comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9064 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I put faith in his comprehension before yours mate. He's been at this longer than any of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Although we've had an easy start that 'report' is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I put faith in his comprehension before yours mate. He's been at this longer than any of us. True. He needs time for sure. But how much time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9064 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I put faith in his comprehension before yours mate. He's been at this longer than any of us. True. He needs time for sure. But how much time? 4 matches after the end of the January Window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I put faith in his comprehension before yours mate. He's been at this longer than any of us. True. He needs time for sure. But how much time? 4 matches after the end of the January Window? Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 133 Posted November 19, 2007 Author Share Posted November 19, 2007 I totally agree that we need new players in certain areas, but I firmly believe that a full strength 11 of our current squad should be performing FAR better than they currently are. Given the quality which we undoubtedly have, I think we have under performed on too many occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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