Newcastle must give Allardyce time

[manc-mag 1]

At the end of the day it's just the same media cunts jealous that theres still 50-odd thousand people tipping up to watch us achieve shit, week in week out. Those who support successful clubs really only ever struggle to answer themselves one question and that is how 'great' would they/their club really be if the shit hit the fan and they were staring down the barrell of decades of drought. Winning a trophy every other season is obviously fucking brilliant, but in some odd sort of way it devalues their credentials as fans as their loyalty is never truly tested. Plus they know that when it even begins to get tested, they're no different to any other fan; no more virtuous, no more patient, no more capable of dispassionate reason. They're wanting the manager out just like anyone else, they just tend to be fortunate theyve got a better board making better decisions for them. By attacking toon fans on this front it basically allows them to massage a part of their ego that clearly isn't quite what they'd like it to be. No more, no less.

 

I've always laughed at Old Firm fans having flags with "100% loyal" on them - apart from odd times when one or the other win everything its a fucking joke to think they've ever been tested on this score.

 

Rest of the post is pretty much spot on as well.

 

Cheers, just my view on it. I'm not saying we're better or any more loyal than anyone else either just to make abundantly clear, I just happen to believe that the above is the true motive behind many journalists labouring the point they do. I honestly think the Toon represent something that triggers that insecurity/inadequacy in them.

[NJS 3989]

Cheers, just my view on it. I'm not saying we're better or any more loyal than anyone else either just to make abundantly clear, I just happen to believe that the above is the true motive behind many journalists labouring the point they do. I honestly think the Toon represent something that triggers that insecurity/inadequacy in them.

 

I think this loyalty thing is becoming more interesting. In dark moments I do find myself joining the "lets get relegated and get rid of the sky boys" school of thought but as the mackems have shown that doesn't work - they just come back as soon as you come back up. Even then having say 30k in the second division wouldn't guarantee better support - I think football has changed too much which is why as you allude to there are no clubs now where a manager would get an "easy" ride of that much time. Thats why I think Sam is being daft with his 3/5 year thing - even if he thinks that and it makes sense he has to realise that expecting it anywhere in the current climate is stupid.

 

I would also point out that adding to your mention of Liverpool that they do have fans who think the lack of challenge for the title renders Benitez as a lame duck (see Houllier) and I honestly think if they hadn't won the CL the pressure on him would have snapped by now.

[manc-mag 1]

Cheers, just my view on it. I'm not saying we're better or any more loyal than anyone else either just to make abundantly clear, I just happen to believe that the above is the true motive behind many journalists labouring the point they do. I honestly think the Toon represent something that triggers that insecurity/inadequacy in them.

 

I think this loyalty thing is becoming more interesting. In dark moments I do find myself joining the "lets get relegated and get rid of the sky boys" school of thought but as the mackems have shown that doesn't work - they just come back as soon as you come back up. Even then having say 30k in the second division wouldn't guarantee better support - I think football has changed too much which is why as you allude to there are no clubs now where a manager would get an "easy" ride of that much time. Thats why I think Sam is being daft with his 3/5 year thing - even if he thinks that and it makes sense he has to realise that expecting it anywhere in the current climate is stupid.

 

I would also point out that adding to your mention of Liverpool that they do have fans who think the lack of challenge for the title renders Benitez as a lame duck (see Houllier) and I honestly think if they hadn't won the CL the pressure on him would have snapped by now.

 

There was a very good portion that were going that way mate. Theyre amongst the worst on the radio phone ins in fact (though I know that's not the best sample). Same observations apply to Man U and Arse at different times.

 

You're spot on about the 3-5 year thing too btw. Not living in the real world if he honestly believes that. It would represent the sort of dispensation that is unheard of in modern football.

[RlCO 0]

At the end of the day it's just the same media cunts jealous that theres still 50-odd thousand people tipping up to watch us achieve shit, week in week out. Those who support successful clubs really only ever struggle to answer themselves one question and that is how 'great' would they/their club really be if the shit hit the fan and they were staring down the barrell of decades of drought. Winning a trophy every other season is obviously fucking brilliant, but in some odd sort of way it devalues their credentials as fans as their loyalty is never truly tested. Plus they know that when it even begins to get tested, they're no different to any other fan; no more virtuous, no more patient, no more capable of dispassionate reason. They're wanting the manager out just like anyone else, they just tend to be fortunate theyve got a better board making better decisions for them. By attacking toon fans on this front it basically allows them to massage a part of their ego that clearly isn't quite what they'd like it to be. No more, no less.

 

I've always laughed at Old Firm fans having flags with "100% loyal" on them - apart from odd times when one or the other win everything its a fucking joke to think they've ever been tested on this score.

 

Rest of the post is pretty much spot on as well.

 

Rangers won it for a decade, how did Celtic react?

[RlCO 0]

Sam's just been on SSN with his "stop Arsenal playing" mantra - I know it may be realistic but I'd love to ask him at what stage would he change.

 

If he had Liverpool or Man U's present squad would he still approach games against who ever the best side is in the same way?

 

If the answer is yes then I know he's the wrong man for the job.

 

Jose on tv last night: "we must stop Arsenal playing"

[LeazesMag 0]

At the end of the day it's just the same media cunts jealous that theres still 50-odd thousand people tipping up to watch us achieve shit, week in week out. Those who support successful clubs really only ever struggle to answer themselves one question and that is how 'great' would they/their club really be if the shit hit the fan and they were staring down the barrell of decades of drought. Winning a trophy every other season is obviously fucking brilliant, but in some odd sort of way it devalues their credentials as fans as their loyalty is never truly tested. Plus they know that when it even begins to get tested, they're no different to any other fan; no more virtuous, no more patient, no more capable of dispassionate reason. They're wanting the manager out just like anyone else, they just tend to be fortunate theyve got a better board making better decisions for them. By attacking toon fans on this front it basically allows them to massage a part of their ego that clearly isn't quite what they'd like it to be. No more, no less.

 

I've always laughed at Old Firm fans having flags with "100% loyal" on them - apart from odd times when one or the other win everything its a fucking joke to think they've ever been tested on this score.

 

Rest of the post is pretty much spot on as well.

 

aye, I agree. Don't know about you, but whenever I pass someone with a manu shirt on, outside Newcastle as in other towns and cities they are more common, I always think to myself that they aren't really fans of that club and are only wearing the shirt so everyone else can say to themselves "look at that tosser pretending to be a manure fan"

[acrossthepond 707]

Another moron jumping on the bandwagon. The Cacapa comment was well out of line and to be honest I don't think Viduka - especially on a FREE - was a bad transfer at all.

 

Will these people never understand it? We're made out to be so fickle because we want to see progress. In reality, we are as the song goes, the loyalest supporters. We've been there to lose a Robson and gain a Souness. We've been there to watch relegation. We've been in droves to watch disappointment after disappointment. And if these plastic bastards and know-nowt pundits think Man U fans would be showing up to watch their team get thumped 3-0 at home after sacking Ferguson and replacing him with Steve McClaren (somewhat analogous to Robson -> Souness I guess) they've got another thing coming.

 

Question to ask all of these people who insist we should be patient: Have you waited fifty years?

Another question to ask all of these people who insist we're fickle: Where were you when you were shit?

[LeazesMag 0]

Another moron jumping on the bandwagon. The Cacapa comment was well out of line and to be honest I don't think Viduka - especially on a FREE - was a bad transfer at all.

 

Will these people never understand it? We're made out to be so fickle because we want to see progress. In reality, we are as the song goes, the loyalest supporters. We've been there to lose a Robson and gain a Souness. We've been there to watch relegation. We've been in droves to watch disappointment after disappointment. And if these plastic bastards and know-nowt pundits think Man U fans would be showing up to watch their team get thumped 3-0 at home after sacking Ferguson and replacing him with Steve McClaren (somewhat analogous to Robson -> Souness I guess) they've got another thing coming.

 

Question to ask all of these people who insist we should be patient: Have you waited fifty years?

Another question to ask all of these people who insist we're fickle: Where were you when you were shit?

 

well said mate.

 

Banging your head against a brick wall though.

 

I went to see ManU play Wimbledon in the 1980's, with my landladies son and his girlfriend, when I was staying in the city for a few weeks, and the ground was half full.

 

Shameful. Pity was we were absolute shite, and about to sell Gazza [to them so he thought] and there wasn't much I could say in response

[The Fish 9085]

Have you waited fifty years?

Where were you when we were shit?

have you?

and where were you?

 

We're fickle because we're clammering for success yet demand it instantly despite being lightyears away from challenging for any trophies.

 

People are (justifiably) saying that consistency does not guarantee success and while that is a fair point I can guarantee going through managers like underwear will never bring success. I don't think Sam Allardyce is the man to win us the title or european glory, I do however think he's the man to provide strong foundations from which an assault can be made. There is little point in my eyes in getting shot of Allardyce simply because we're not top 7 and we're playing poorly. IF we were bottom 5 and playing shite then sure get rid of the man.

 

We've waited a fair few years for a decent manager to replace Robson, and I reckon in Allardyce we've got a decent manager. His style isn't as attractive as Robson's but I think with support (from the fans and the board) we will see an upturn in results. Because we've waited so long for success we should not be as quick to disregard a decent manager, We above all fans should recognise that success takes time and upheaval helps no one.

 

I know the majority of fans do not want to see Sam go, but simply refraining from booing is not enough, we must support Allardyce's team. The environment at SJP is not conducive to positivity amongst the players. At Blackburn the 7000 travelling fans did that, and we saw the vast improvement in the performance and commitment of the players. (Not because it was fantastic in itself, just that which went before was so poor) If we could reproduce that support at home I genuinely think that will help the team put in another improved display against the league leaders.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* I still think we'll lose against Arsenal, they've simply got too much quality and morale in their squad.

[LeazesMag 0]

Have you waited fifty years?

Where were you when we were shit?

have you?

and where were you?

 

We're fickle because we're clammering for success yet demand it instantly despite being lightyears away from challenging for any trophies.

 

People are (justifiably) saying that consistency does not guarantee success and while that is a fair point I can guarantee going through managers like underwear will never bring success. I don't think Sam Allardyce is the man to win us the title or european glory, I do however think he's the man to provide strong foundations from which an assault can be made. There is little point in my eyes in getting shot of Allardyce simply because we're not top 7 and we're playing poorly. IF we were bottom 5 and playing shite then sure get rid of the man.

 

We've waited a fair few years for a decent manager to replace Robson, and I reckon in Allardyce we've got a decent manager. His style isn't as attractive as Robson's but I think with support (from the fans and the board) we will see an upturn in results. Because we've waited so long for success we should not be as quick to disregard a decent manager, We above all fans should recognise that success takes time and upheaval helps no one.

 

I know the majority of fans do not want to see Sam go, but simply refraining from booing is not enough, we must support Allardyce's team. The environment at SJP is not conducive to positivity amongst the players. At Blackburn the 7000 travelling fans did that, and we saw the vast improvement in the performance and commitment of the players. (Not because it was fantastic in itself, just that which went before was so poor) If we could reproduce that support at home I genuinely think that will help the team put in another improved display against the league leaders.

 

 

Well, at 53 and supporting utter shite for most of my life, running out of patience, a Keegan type team talk still does the trick.

[The Fish 9085]

Well, at 53 and supporting utter shite for most of my life, running out of patience, a Keegan type team talk still does the trick.

But surely it's counter intuitive to demand instant success when you've seen shite for most of your life? It must be more sensible to accept that there has to be a period of stabilisation before we can return to challenging?

 

You have experience on your side, and I was under the impression that the need for instant gratification was a curse of the young generations?

[LeazesMag 0]

Well, at 53 and supporting utter shite for most of my life, running out of patience, a Keegan type team talk still does the trick.

But surely it's counter intuitive to demand instant success when you've seen shite for most of your life? It must be more sensible to accept that there has to be a period of stabilisation before we can return to challenging?

 

You have experience on your side, and I was under the impression that the need for instant gratification was a curse of the young generations?

 

Said to my mate when we came out of the 1999 Cup Final. One day we will win here and it'll be the day we are sat outside here on the grass without a ticket.

 

On reflection, maybe I'll be pushing up the daisies instead !!!!!

 

We are both in good health, but in all seriousness, you can look at the situation and realise it may take time, but on the other hand how much patience can you have ? I am fed up of people in the press and on TV telling me to be patient now, especially when they are supporting the teams who have been winning the trophies.

 

If anything, the Keegan years and to a lesser extent the Bobby Robson years, are more frustrating than ever, and somehow I just bloody new that we would have nothing to show in terms of silverware, which Keegan deserved to win. Never has a manager deserved to win a cup for a club, IMO

[zico martin 85]

What about all the fans of other clubs who havent won anything for over fifty years, as they dont moan like we do does that mean they are more loyal?

 

Swansea fans dont complain that they've been starved of success, they're still proud about the fact they made it to the old first division in trhe eighties and were top at xmas ( i think).

 

 

discuss

[RlCO 0]

What about all the fans of other clubs who havent won anything for over fifty years, as they dont moan like we do does that mean they are more loyal?

 

Swansea fans dont complain that they've been starved of success, they're still proud about the fact they made it to the old first division in trhe eighties and were top at xmas ( i think).

 

 

discuss

 

And Norwich who have ended up with Roeder, having finished higher in the Prem than us in the last decade.

[spongebob toonpants 3629]

Cheers, just my view on it. I'm not saying we're better or any more loyal than anyone else either just to make abundantly clear, I just happen to believe that the above is the true motive behind many journalists labouring the point they do. I honestly think the Toon represent something that triggers that insecurity/inadequacy in them.

 

I think this loyalty thing is becoming more interesting. In dark moments I do find myself joining the "lets get relegated and get rid of the sky boys" school of thought but as the mackems have shown that doesn't work - they just come back as soon as you come back up. Even then having say 30k in the second division wouldn't guarantee better support - I think football has changed too much which is why as you allude to there are no clubs now where a manager would get an "easy" ride of that much time. Thats why I think Sam is being daft with his 3/5 year thing - even if he thinks that and it makes sense he has to realise that expecting it anywhere in the current climate is stupid.

 

I would also point out that adding to your mention of Liverpool that they do have fans who think the lack of challenge for the title renders Benitez as a lame duck (see Houllier) and I honestly think if they hadn't won the CL the pressure on him would have snapped by now.

 

There was a very good portion that were going that way mate. Theyre amongst the worst on the radio phone ins in fact (though I know that's not the best sample). Same observations apply to Man U and Arse at different times.

 

You're spot on about the 3-5 year thing too btw. Not living in the real world if he honestly believes that. It would represent the sort of dispensation that is unheard of in modern football.

 

 

You have no idea how much it pains me to say this, but the Liverpool fans who wanted shot of Houllier or Benitez kept it out of the ground. Utter wankers on phone ins, "divine righters" a phrase well chosen. Inside the ground though the atmosphere has remained noisy and supportive. Horribly self congratulating and smug maybe, but undeniably behind their team. Look at their treatment of Crouch when he was a non scoring national joke.

 

We are now loyal in numbers only, I wish it wasnt so.

[manc-mag 1]

Cheers, just my view on it. I'm not saying we're better or any more loyal than anyone else either just to make abundantly clear, I just happen to believe that the above is the true motive behind many journalists labouring the point they do. I honestly think the Toon represent something that triggers that insecurity/inadequacy in them.

 

I think this loyalty thing is becoming more interesting. In dark moments I do find myself joining the "lets get relegated and get rid of the sky boys" school of thought but as the mackems have shown that doesn't work - they just come back as soon as you come back up. Even then having say 30k in the second division wouldn't guarantee better support - I think football has changed too much which is why as you allude to there are no clubs now where a manager would get an "easy" ride of that much time. Thats why I think Sam is being daft with his 3/5 year thing - even if he thinks that and it makes sense he has to realise that expecting it anywhere in the current climate is stupid.

 

I would also point out that adding to your mention of Liverpool that they do have fans who think the lack of challenge for the title renders Benitez as a lame duck (see Houllier) and I honestly think if they hadn't won the CL the pressure on him would have snapped by now.

 

There was a very good portion that were going that way mate. Theyre amongst the worst on the radio phone ins in fact (though I know that's not the best sample). Same observations apply to Man U and Arse at different times.

 

You're spot on about the 3-5 year thing too btw. Not living in the real world if he honestly believes that. It would represent the sort of dispensation that is unheard of in modern football.

 

 

You have no idea how much it pains me to say this, but the Liverpool fans who wanted shot of Houllier or Benitez kept it out of the ground. Utter wankers on phone ins, "divine righters" a phrase well chosen. Inside the ground though the atmosphere has remained noisy and supportive. Horribly self congratulating and smug maybe, but undeniably behind their team. Look at their treatment of Crouch when he was a non scoring national joke.

 

We are now loyal in numbers only, I wish it wasnt so.

 

....and to that extent the comparison is just not relevant as I said originally. What the Liverpool fans have had to put up with is simply not in the same stratosphere as us. If circumstances were the same (looked at down the years) then I reckon they'd be absolutely no less vocal than us and in similar ways. It's just desperation at the end of the day and desperation is pretty universal in the way it manifests itself. Circumstances would never be the same however as that state of affairs would never be allowed to happen at Liverpool and like I say for that reason the comparison just simply does not exist for me.

 

On a personal note, the booing is very difficult (if impossible) for me to reconcile myself to, but it says a lot that our ground is still even half full tbh. For that reason, (and also the point about the fact managers of the top three are under much more pressure than BSA) however, the journalists can just fucking sling it tbh.

[spongebob toonpants 3629]

Cheers, just my view on it. I'm not saying we're better or any more loyal than anyone else either just to make abundantly clear, I just happen to believe that the above is the true motive behind many journalists labouring the point they do. I honestly think the Toon represent something that triggers that insecurity/inadequacy in them.

 

I think this loyalty thing is becoming more interesting. In dark moments I do find myself joining the "lets get relegated and get rid of the sky boys" school of thought but as the mackems have shown that doesn't work - they just come back as soon as you come back up. Even then having say 30k in the second division wouldn't guarantee better support - I think football has changed too much which is why as you allude to there are no clubs now where a manager would get an "easy" ride of that much time. Thats why I think Sam is being daft with his 3/5 year thing - even if he thinks that and it makes sense he has to realise that expecting it anywhere in the current climate is stupid.

 

I would also point out that adding to your mention of Liverpool that they do have fans who think the lack of challenge for the title renders Benitez as a lame duck (see Houllier) and I honestly think if they hadn't won the CL the pressure on him would have snapped by now.

 

There was a very good portion that were going that way mate. Theyre amongst the worst on the radio phone ins in fact (though I know that's not the best sample). Same observations apply to Man U and Arse at different times.

 

You're spot on about the 3-5 year thing too btw. Not living in the real world if he honestly believes that. It would represent the sort of dispensation that is unheard of in modern football.

 

 

You have no idea how much it pains me to say this, but the Liverpool fans who wanted shot of Houllier or Benitez kept it out of the ground. Utter wankers on phone ins, "divine righters" a phrase well chosen. Inside the ground though the atmosphere has remained noisy and supportive. Horribly self congratulating and smug maybe, but undeniably behind their team. Look at their treatment of Crouch when he was a non scoring national joke.

 

We are now loyal in numbers only, I wish it wasnt so.

 

....and to that extent the comparison is just not relevant as I said originally. What the Liverpool fans have had to put up with is simply not in the same stratosphere as us. If circumstances were the same (looked at down the years) then I reckon they'd be absolutely no less vocal than us and in similar ways. It's just desperation at the end of the day and desperation is pretty universal in the way it manifests itself. Circumstances would never be the same however as that state of affairs would never be allowed to happen at Liverpool and like I say for that reason the comparison just simply does not exist for me.

 

On a personal note, the booing is very difficult (if impossible) for me to reconcile myself to, but it says a lot that our ground is still even half full tbh. For that reason, (and also the point about the fact managers of the top three are under much more pressure than BSA) however, the journalists can just fucking sling it tbh.

 

I didnt really intend to compare our position to Liverpools, I think I am just nostalgic for the times when the most important thing to the crowd was to make as much noise and have as good a time as possible. It was much easier before we had a tantalising glimpse of the summit, but the whole football experience was much more enjoyable. We knew we were rubbish so we were determined to be the best fans, now we dont even have that

Edited December 5, 2007 by spongebob toonpants

[manc-mag 1]

Cheers, just my view on it. I'm not saying we're better or any more loyal than anyone else either just to make abundantly clear, I just happen to believe that the above is the true motive behind many journalists labouring the point they do. I honestly think the Toon represent something that triggers that insecurity/inadequacy in them.

 

I think this loyalty thing is becoming more interesting. In dark moments I do find myself joining the "lets get relegated and get rid of the sky boys" school of thought but as the mackems have shown that doesn't work - they just come back as soon as you come back up. Even then having say 30k in the second division wouldn't guarantee better support - I think football has changed too much which is why as you allude to there are no clubs now where a manager would get an "easy" ride of that much time. Thats why I think Sam is being daft with his 3/5 year thing - even if he thinks that and it makes sense he has to realise that expecting it anywhere in the current climate is stupid.

 

I would also point out that adding to your mention of Liverpool that they do have fans who think the lack of challenge for the title renders Benitez as a lame duck (see Houllier) and I honestly think if they hadn't won the CL the pressure on him would have snapped by now.

 

There was a very good portion that were going that way mate. Theyre amongst the worst on the radio phone ins in fact (though I know that's not the best sample). Same observations apply to Man U and Arse at different times.

 

You're spot on about the 3-5 year thing too btw. Not living in the real world if he honestly believes that. It would represent the sort of dispensation that is unheard of in modern football.

 

 

You have no idea how much it pains me to say this, but the Liverpool fans who wanted shot of Houllier or Benitez kept it out of the ground. Utter wankers on phone ins, "divine righters" a phrase well chosen. Inside the ground though the atmosphere has remained noisy and supportive. Horribly self congratulating and smug maybe, but undeniably behind their team. Look at their treatment of Crouch when he was a non scoring national joke.

 

We are now loyal in numbers only, I wish it wasnt so.

 

....and to that extent the comparison is just not relevant as I said originally. What the Liverpool fans have had to put up with is simply not in the same stratosphere as us. If circumstances were the same (looked at down the years) then I reckon they'd be absolutely no less vocal than us and in similar ways. It's just desperation at the end of the day and desperation is pretty universal in the way it manifests itself. Circumstances would never be the same however as that state of affairs would never be allowed to happen at Liverpool and like I say for that reason the comparison just simply does not exist for me.

 

On a personal note, the booing is very difficult (if impossible) for me to reconcile myself to, but it says a lot that our ground is still even half full tbh. For that reason, (and also the point about the fact managers of the top three are under much more pressure than BSA) however, the journalists can just fucking sling it tbh.

 

I didnt really intend to compare our position to Liverpools, I think I am just nostalgic for the times when the most important thing to the crowd was to make as much noise and have as good a time as possible. It was much easier before we had a tantalising glimpse of the summit, but the whole football experience was much more enjoyable. We knew we were rubbish so we were determined to be the best fans, now we dont even have that

 

I know where you're coming from with that mate and you sum it up pretty well fwiw.