David Kelly 1117 Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 We could have had Modric btw but Ashley wouldn't pay the money. That's why KK was furious. Apparently. The fee or the wages? Wonder what Mort was on about like. The fee, I think. Better that way around, I suppose. As others say though, if Keegan wanted him then should the owner be deciding on his value? There have been a number of seemingly crackpot theories about the actual deal itself (different ways of paying the fee, ownership, selling-on rights etc), I actually wonder if those had anything to do with it. I don't know the details but Keegan was very pissed off, it wasn't just the papers shit-stirring on this occasion. Modric was actually training up here. I think we are in a real mess tbh. None of this is at all looks good for trying to build a team. The current player are bound to know about this and it must surely make them wonder what the fuck is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Perhaps we were going on false promises about the deal and when Spurs came in Ashley got cold feet - maybe the price suddenly went up by an unacceptable amount. I'd hope if Keegan was that pissed off and the club plan to keep him (happy), they'll be more inclined to back him next time. Lesson learnt, hopefully. Yeah. I certainly hope so. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Top 6. We shouldn't lose a point at home until after Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniffer 0 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Hard to get excited about anything to do with the Toon these days. Getting rid of smith, geremi and viduka would help but I don't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I know this is very early since we've not signed anyone yet and preseason is still a while off, but that's sort of the reason I want to do this now. Personally I'm very nervous about the way the club is heading at the moment and more and more I think Ashley has either settled for mid table mediocrity or is deluded about what it take to move this club to a position where we can compete for a place in Europe and above. The cost cutting while being prudent in this age of wages spiralling out of control, seems to be going through in a way that seems can only have the result in pissing off some of our players looking for new deals and puuting off potential signings. Altough the names that are being put forward as potenial signings would probably be pretty happy with the lower wages that we seem to want to offer since they are so mediocre (Gardener, Larsson, Guthery, Kapo, Dawson etc) that we probably can match their other options of relegation fodder or championship teams. I know we all (well apart from Leazes) wanted a change from the fat man's policy of big money high profile signings that didn't live up to their billing but the bargain basement route we seem to be wanting to follow can be no better. I realise that I haven't got any proof of this at all and in fact the only bit of incomming transfer business that has been confirmed by anyone at the club was the attempt to sign modric (a move that in terms of ambition and available funds seemed to show quite the opposite of much of what I am saying here) but I just have a feeling that with all of the story's coming out about clashe's between Keegan and the board, wage slashing and looking at crap players that there is as many problems with our current owner as there was with the last and at the moment I'm looking forward to next season no more than I was before Roeder was sacked at the end of the season before last. The optimism that Keegans arival brought me has all but evaporated and I'm now getting seriously concerned that not only have we fell from where we we under Robson (ie in or at least challenging the top four) but also falling well back from the likes of Cinteh, Spurs, Villa, Everton, Portsmouth and Blackburn (although their choice of manage will determine this) so that we will be competing with the likes of the smoggies and the makems next year either just above of even in the relegation battle rather than progressing. Am I being overly pessimistic or do others share my lack of faith in our new regime? It's strange some days I wake up and think all will be alright and some days I have a dark feeling about KK and his relationship with Ashers. This long break of KK's (3 weeks now actually) hasn't helped allay my fears. Still hope for the best etc...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) I'll go for relegation (before the hysteria starts), then anything better than that I can be pleased with. Although seriously at the moment it's had to make a judgement, until we see what is what. Edited June 18, 2008 by Fop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I'll go for relegation (before the hysteria starts), then anything better than that I can be pleased with. Although seriously at the moment it's had to make a judgement, until we see what is what. What's your gut feeling about KK, is he happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. "Invest to win" to steal one of our own corporate phrases, is a necessary not an optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. "Invest to win" to steal one of our own corporate phrases, is a necessary not an optional. Does that translate into us buying some goodish players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I'll go for relegation (before the hysteria starts), then anything better than that I can be pleased with. Although seriously at the moment it's had to make a judgement, until we see what is what. What's your gut feeling about KK, is he happy? Again it's very hard to say, there's just so much speculation and so little fact about. I just hope he is on board with some of the supposed changes though, because it's a lot different to what he was supposedly promised when he was brought here, and if he's not then not only may he walk, but even if he doesn't if he's not enthusiastic about it all then every area may suffer even more. What's a bit worrying is Keegan's public comments have continually downgraded the number of players he "needs", and that's before losing players from last years squad. Losing Viduka to injury at the end showed that Keegan's cobbled together formation (whilst pretty decent when all fit) had almost no strength in depth last season, so even running with that is going to require some investment, playing in maybe a more traditional Keegan way even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. "Invest to win" to steal one of our own corporate phrases, is a necessary not an optional. Does that translate into us buying some goodish players? Difficult to say from a hard nosed business perspective. When the time is right, he will act. He is known as a maverick so will probably do something big when you least expect it. These are dark arts Parky, planets need to be aligned etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26871 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. It's also a way of preparing a company for sale. [/pessimist] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. It's also a way of preparing a company for sale. [/pessimist] My Dad's take on it, as it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. "Invest to win" to steal one of our own corporate phrases, is a necessary not an optional. Does that translate into us buying some goodish players? Difficult to say from a hard nosed business perspective. When the time is right, he will act. He is known as a maverick so will probably do something big when you least expect it. These are dark arts Parky, planets need to be aligned etc. First signing anounced on the 20th then (Universal time 23.59), can't get more aligned than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Davey 0 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Tad pessimistic aren't we? There's a huge tournament on at the moment. Wait and see. Meanwhile Jimenez and Wise are talking to Owen in London about contracts. (according to the Mail) Remember we signed Shearer after Euro 96, so who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4ever 0 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. "Invest to win" to steal one of our own corporate phrases, is a necessary not an optional. I was under the impression you were rather unconvinced at how they have done things to date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I'll go for relegation (before the hysteria starts), then anything better than that I can be pleased with. Although seriously at the moment it's had to make a judgement, until we see what is what. What's your gut feeling about KK, is he happy? Again it's very hard to say, there's just so much speculation and so little fact about. I just hope he is on board with some of the supposed changes though, because it's a lot different to what he was supposedly promised when he was brought here, and if he's not then not only may he walk, but even if he doesn't if he's not enthusiastic about it all then every area may suffer even more. What's a bit worrying is Keegan's public comments have continually downgraded the number of players he "needs", and that's before losing players from last years squad. Losing Viduka to injury at the end showed that Keegan's cobbled together formation (whilst pretty decent when all fit) had almost no strength in depth last season, so even running with that is going to require some investment, playing in maybe a more traditional Keegan way even more so. Can there be any more mad sight in football than Wisey grinning at ya with a pen and contract in hand? Let Wise and the others find them but let KK do the negotiations ffs!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. It's also a way of preparing a company for sale. [/pessimist] My Dad's take on it, as it happens. Not mine, cost-cutting exercises are attempts to change spending culture within a business and take around 2 years to hit the bottom line, depending on the size of the organisation. When a big corporation announces cost cuts, its not too make it a more sellable asset. The overall value of the club fluctuates massively according to external forces (market changes etc) which make cost-cutting irrelevant to the sale value. Accountants have never been, not ever will be, in charge of a business. Dont listen to what they think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. "Invest to win" to steal one of our own corporate phrases, is a necessary not an optional. I was under the impression you were rather unconvinced at how they have done things to date? I havent commented on them for ages, nor was i looking back at what has gone on before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4ever 0 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. "Invest to win" to steal one of our own corporate phrases, is a necessary not an optional. I was under the impression you were rather unconvinced at how they have done things to date? I havent commented on them for ages, nor was i looking back at what has gone on before. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26871 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. It's also a way of preparing a company for sale. [/pessimist] My Dad's take on it, as it happens. Not mine, cost-cutting exercises are attempts to change spending culture within a business and take around 2 years to hit the bottom line, depending on the size of the organisation. When a big corporation announces cost cuts, its not too make it a more sellable asset. The overall value of the club fluctuates massively according to external forces (market changes etc) which make cost-cutting irrelevant to the sale value. Accountants have never been, not ever will be, in charge of a business. Dont listen to what they think. If we reduce our outgoings without affecting income too much (as is the likely case) then it makes us a more attractive asset, surely that's obvious? Again this is a worst case scenario, if Ashely was looking to make a profit a football club wouldn't have been the obvious target, more than likely he is trying to run the place like a business though hopefully he realises that there are significant differences between a football club and any other company he has owned. Edited June 17, 2009 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donaldstott 0 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Mid-table I reckon, never dragged into owt but never really bothereing any of the european places. Getting results at home, piss poor away. We are supposed to be looking forwards not summing up the last 5 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The cost cutting is a good sign imo. Its a signal of Ashley's commitment to the club (i.e. business). Its also a way of maximising money to invest. The business at the moment is not going to deliver the level of annual returns you would demand (in an investment appraisal) from a £200m+ outlay. It's also a way of preparing a company for sale. [/pessimist] My Dad's take on it, as it happens. Not mine, cost-cutting exercises are attempts to change spending culture within a business and take around 2 years to hit the bottom line, depending on the size of the organisation. When a big corporation announces cost cuts, its not too make it a more sellable asset. The overall value of the club fluctuates massively according to external forces (market changes etc) which make cost-cutting irrelevant to the sale value. Accountants have never been, not ever will be, in charge of a business. Dont listen to what they think. If we reduce our outgoings without affecting income too much (as is the likely case) then it makes us a more attractive asset, surely that's obvious? Again this is a worst case scenario, if Ashely was looking to make a profit a football club wouldn't have been the obvious target, more than likely he is trying to run the place like a business though hopefully he realises that there are significant differences between a football club and any other company he has owned. If you have some beans and then you find more beans then overall you'll have more beans. Well done. The point is these changes take time to implement, take time to become embedded in the culture and take at least one financial reporting year to show up in the figures. Therefore, it doesnt point to selling the club, it points to longevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26871 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The club can issue a set of accounts whenever they want, should they be looking a quick sale they could reduced wages and show our outgoings as being heavily reduced. It's impossible to say whether it is indeed cost cutting or preparation for a sale though my hunch is that it is the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I know this is very early since we've not signed anyone yet and preseason is still a while off, but that's sort of the reason I want to do this now. Personally I'm very nervous about the way the club is heading at the moment and more and more I think Ashley has either settled for mid table mediocrity or is deluded about what it take to move this club to a position where we can compete for a place in Europe and above. The cost cutting while being prudent in this age of wages spiralling out of control, seems to be going through in a way that seems can only have the result in pissing off some of our players looking for new deals and puuting off potential signings. Altough the names that are being put forward as potenial signings would probably be pretty happy with the lower wages that we seem to want to offer since they are so mediocre (Gardener, Larsson, Guthery, Kapo, Dawson etc) that we probably can match their other options of relegation fodder or championship teams. I know we all (well apart from Leazes) wanted a change from the fat man's policy of big money high profile signings that didn't live up to their billing but the bargain basement route we seem to be wanting to follow can be no better. I realise that I haven't got any proof of this at all and in fact the only bit of incomming transfer business that has been confirmed by anyone at the club was the attempt to sign modric (a move that in terms of ambition and available funds seemed to show quite the opposite of much of what I am saying here) but I just have a feeling that with all of the story's coming out about clashe's between Keegan and the board, wage slashing and looking at crap players that there is as many problems with our current owner as there was with the last and at the moment I'm looking forward to next season no more than I was before Roeder was sacked at the end of the season before last. The optimism that Keegans arival brought me has all but evaporated and I'm now getting seriously concerned that not only have we fell from where we we under Robson (ie in or at least challenging the top four) but also falling well back from the likes of Cinteh, Spurs, Villa, Everton, Portsmouth and Blackburn (although their choice of manage will determine this) so that we will be competing with the likes of the smoggies and the makems next year either just above of even in the relegation battle rather than progressing. Am I being overly pessimistic or do others share my lack of faith in our new regime? most people I know share this feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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