Fop 1 Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: this lass - She's a bint but the policeman in question shouldn't have lost his temper basically. But she was asking for it - quite literally in the sense that she wants to make a name for herself by the sounds of it. And I'm not one to think the British police are beyond reproach by any means but the actions of some officers in difficult and pressured circumstances shouldn't colour the attitude of people to the Police as a whole. Sadly though, for many people, that will be the case. Thing is though when it's your job it's your job. In many jobs you can get verbal and even physical abuse to the point where the person in question was "asking for it" (I don't really think she was in this case though), but that still wouldn't mean you could just get away with smacking them in the face, never mind then following it up with a baton attack (although I suspect the officer in question probably will in the end). The police especially so, as they get a lot of power and freedom, but the other end of that deal is they also should have responsibility as well. (and of course it still doesn't explain head hitting with poles/metal fence throwing reactions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17828 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 When the Jedi take over, all will be well. Love the way they combined it with atheists dumb fucks. Seems reasonable, unless you think Jediism really is a religion. Believing in an external force (for good) clearly ain't atheism is it? Sorry, I thought Jediism related to the ficticious Star Wars series created by George Lucas. My bad. Bit like the bible then. You dopey cunt. Think we've had this discussion before, but I'd argue that Star Wars is even more demonstrably false. I guess it depends on your definition of religion, but taking your sugggestion to the obvious conclusion, is everything a religion if we say we believe in it? Do you seriously think we should put down Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Templars of the Pink Unicorn as equally valid options? Or do we just accept 'Jedis' are in fact a bit sad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 When the Jedi take over, all will be well. Love the way they combined it with atheists dumb fucks. Seems reasonable, unless you think Jediism really is a religion. Believing in an external force (for good) clearly ain't atheism is it? Sorry, I thought Jediism related to the ficticious Star Wars series created by George Lucas. My bad. Bit like the bible then. You dopey cunt. Think we've had this discussion before, but I'd argue that Star Wars is even more demonstrably false. I guess it depends on your definition of religion, but taking your sugggestion to the obvious conclusion, is everything a religion if we say we believe in it? Do you seriously think we should put down Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Templars of the Pink Unicorn as equally valid options? Or do we just accept 'Jedis' are in fact a bit sad? People like to believe in made up things. Let them have the freedom to do so is all I say yo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17828 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: this lass - She's a bint but the policeman in question shouldn't have lost his temper basically. But she was asking for it - quite literally in the sense that she wants to make a name for herself by the sounds of it. And I'm not one to think the British police are beyond reproach by any means but the actions of some officers in difficult and pressured circumstances shouldn't colour the attitude of people to the Police as a whole. Sadly though, for many people, that will be the case. I agree but they aren't helping themselves very much - there is a case in the Guardian where 2 coppers deleted photos from an Austrian tourist's camera (the bloke was a weird bus/transport spotter) quoting anti-terror laws. Their spokesman then says quite rightly that they don't have the right to do this. This means either they've been wrongly briefed by their superiors (either through genuine mistake or malicious intent) or they honestly think that the new laws give them carte blanche to act like twats. I think getting things out in the open and having a good look at how they do things is overdue - I think what these incidents can do in a positive way is to stop the "unquestioning respect" that a lot of British people have for authority. I'm actually much more worried about the obvious contempt a lot of people have for authority, but that's another thread. If these two cases are the worst things that have happened, I'm pretty satisfied tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: this lass - She's a bint but the policeman in question shouldn't have lost his temper basically. But she was asking for it - quite literally in the sense that she wants to make a name for herself by the sounds of it. And I'm not one to think the British police are beyond reproach by any means but the actions of some officers in difficult and pressured circumstances shouldn't colour the attitude of people to the Police as a whole. Sadly though, for many people, that will be the case. I agree but they aren't helping themselves very much - there is a case in the Guardian where 2 coppers deleted photos from an Austrian tourist's camera (the bloke was a weird bus/transport spotter) quoting anti-terror laws. Their spokesman then says quite rightly that they don't have the right to do this. This means either they've been wrongly briefed by their superiors (either through genuine mistake or malicious intent) or they honestly think that the new laws give them carte blanche to act like twats. I think getting things out in the open and having a good look at how they do things is overdue - I think what these incidents can do in a positive way is to stop the "unquestioning respect" that a lot of British people have for authority. A lot of them went in with their identities and police numbers covered up (completely against procedure) which suggests they thought they were going to end up doing things that they didn't want identified back to them either through personal choice or through more general policy. The new "terror" laws especially have pushed the police into a position of often crushing protest rather than just policing it (with certain exceptions depending on the PCitude of the exact protest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17828 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 When the Jedi take over, all will be well. Love the way they combined it with atheists dumb fucks. Seems reasonable, unless you think Jediism really is a religion. Believing in an external force (for good) clearly ain't atheism is it? Sorry, I thought Jediism related to the ficticious Star Wars series created by George Lucas. My bad. Bit like the bible then. You dopey cunt. Think we've had this discussion before, but I'd argue that Star Wars is even more demonstrably false. I guess it depends on your definition of religion, but taking your sugggestion to the obvious conclusion, is everything a religion if we say we believe in it? Do you seriously think we should put down Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Templars of the Pink Unicorn as equally valid options? Or do we just accept 'Jedis' are in fact a bit sad? People like to believe in made up things. Let them have the freedom to do so is all I say yo! Aye, but do you really expect The Office for National Statistics to cater for everyone, yo? Isn't it easy to categorise people into christian nutters, muslim nutters, etc, and other nutters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 When the Jedi take over, all will be well. Love the way they combined it with atheists dumb fucks. Seems reasonable, unless you think Jediism really is a religion. Believing in an external force (for good) clearly ain't atheism is it? Sorry, I thought Jediism related to the ficticious Star Wars series created by George Lucas. My bad. Bit like the bible then. You dopey cunt. Think we've had this discussion before, but I'd argue that Star Wars is even more demonstrably false. I guess it depends on your definition of religion, but taking your sugggestion to the obvious conclusion, is everything a religion if we say we believe in it? Do you seriously think we should put down Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Templars of the Pink Unicorn as equally valid options? Or do we just accept 'Jedis' are in fact a bit sad? People like to believe in made up things. Let them have the freedom to do so is all I say yo! Aye, but do you really expect The Office for National Statistics to cater for everyone, yo? Isn't it easy to categorise people into christian nutters, muslim nutters, etc, and other nutters? Down with the office of national spactics!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 When the Jedi take over, all will be well. Love the way they combined it with atheists dumb fucks. Seems reasonable, unless you think Jediism really is a religion. Believing in an external force (for good) clearly ain't atheism is it? Sorry, I thought Jediism related to the ficticious Star Wars series created by George Lucas. My bad. Bit like the bible then. You dopey cunt. Think we've had this discussion before, but I'd argue that Star Wars is even more demonstrably false. I guess it depends on your definition of religion, but taking your sugggestion to the obvious conclusion, is everything a religion if we say we believe in it? Do you seriously think we should put down Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Templars of the Pink Unicorn as equally valid options? Or do we just accept 'Jedis' are in fact a bit sad? Freedom of belief is just that. Once you start judging you're just oppressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17828 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 When the Jedi take over, all will be well. Love the way they combined it with atheists dumb fucks. Seems reasonable, unless you think Jediism really is a religion. Believing in an external force (for good) clearly ain't atheism is it? Sorry, I thought Jediism related to the ficticious Star Wars series created by George Lucas. My bad. Bit like the bible then. You dopey cunt. Think we've had this discussion before, but I'd argue that Star Wars is even more demonstrably false. I guess it depends on your definition of religion, but taking your sugggestion to the obvious conclusion, is everything a religion if we say we believe in it? Do you seriously think we should put down Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Templars of the Pink Unicorn as equally valid options? Or do we just accept 'Jedis' are in fact a bit sad? Freedom of belief is just that. Once you start judging you're just oppressing. Fop, this was in relation to what to put down on a census form, nobody's oppressing anyone. I'd think it was a fair asumption that anyone who puts down 'Jedi' doesn't take religion very seriously or is a nerd, or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 When the Jedi take over, all will be well. Love the way they combined it with atheists dumb fucks. Seems reasonable, unless you think Jediism really is a religion. Believing in an external force (for good) clearly ain't atheism is it? Sorry, I thought Jediism related to the ficticious Star Wars series created by George Lucas. My bad. Bit like the bible then. You dopey cunt. Think we've had this discussion before, but I'd argue that Star Wars is even more demonstrably false. I guess it depends on your definition of religion, but taking your sugggestion to the obvious conclusion, is everything a religion if we say we believe in it? Do you seriously think we should put down Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Templars of the Pink Unicorn as equally valid options? Or do we just accept 'Jedis' are in fact a bit sad? Freedom of belief is just that. Once you start judging you're just oppressing. Fop, this was in relation to what to put down on a census form, nobody's oppressing anyone. I'd think it was a fair asumption that anyone who puts down 'Jedi' doesn't take religion very seriously or is a nerd, or both. Of course they are, if Christianity was statistically deemed not to be a religion would that be ok? And assumption is step-father of oppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17828 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 When the Jedi take over, all will be well. Love the way they combined it with atheists dumb fucks. Seems reasonable, unless you think Jediism really is a religion. Believing in an external force (for good) clearly ain't atheism is it? Sorry, I thought Jediism related to the ficticious Star Wars series created by George Lucas. My bad. Bit like the bible then. You dopey cunt. Think we've had this discussion before, but I'd argue that Star Wars is even more demonstrably false. I guess it depends on your definition of religion, but taking your sugggestion to the obvious conclusion, is everything a religion if we say we believe in it? Do you seriously think we should put down Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Templars of the Pink Unicorn as equally valid options? Or do we just accept 'Jedis' are in fact a bit sad? Freedom of belief is just that. Once you start judging you're just oppressing. Fop, this was in relation to what to put down on a census form, nobody's oppressing anyone. I'd think it was a fair asumption that anyone who puts down 'Jedi' doesn't take religion very seriously or is a nerd, or both. Of course they are, if Christianity was statistically deemed not to be a religion would that be ok? And assumption is step-father of oppression. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3986 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Ultimate in cat among pigeons: New PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9015 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I too am worried about the contempt that so many people seem to have for people in positions of authority. Failures are highlighted and covered by all the media outlets, but successes just don't make for good News bulletins. So the populace grows weary of the authority, they act out against them raising the stress and focus on the police and the like, which snowballs until we get a situation where the people don't trust the police, the police don't trust the people and you get wave after wave of reports saying how the world's gone to pot. I know I'm not making a whole lot of sense, blame the cold-flu-thing... I guess I'm saying both sides are fucked up, but only one side seems to be getting the calls for improvement and retribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17828 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Ultimate in cat among pigeons: New PM Interesting, I didn't see any evidence of a blow to the abdomen on that footage, but if can be proven to be directly attributable to the policeman's action then he will go down for manslaughter I guess, and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3986 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Ultimate in cat among pigeons: New PM Interesting, I didn't see any evidence of a blow to the abdomen on that footage, but if can be proven to be directly attributable to the policeman's action then he will go down for manslaughter I guess, and rightly so. Unless falling on your back/kidneys could cause it - he did seem to fall sort of straight back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3986 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I too am worried about the contempt that so many people seem to have for people in positions of authority. Failures are highlighted and covered by all the media outlets, but successes just don't make for good News bulletins. So the populace grows weary of the authority, they act out against them raising the stress and focus on the police and the like, which snowballs until we get a situation where the people don't trust the police, the police don't trust the people and you get wave after wave of reports saying how the world's gone to pot. I know I'm not making a whole lot of sense, blame the cold-flu-thing... I guess I'm saying both sides are fucked up, but only one side seems to be getting the calls for improvement and retribution. I think theres a happy medium - a healthy respect and/or simultaneous direspect for the police can work - I know its a cliche but I have a couple of good mates who are coppers and I argue this with them quite often - both are possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9015 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 There should be respect, just not unquestioning respect. I just don't see the respect bit happening all that much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17828 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 There should be respect, just not unquestioning respect. I just don't see the respect bit happening all that much... Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Ultimate in cat among pigeons: New PM Interesting, I didn't see any evidence of a blow to the abdomen on that footage, but if can be proven to be directly attributable to the policeman's action then he will go down for manslaughter I guess, and rightly so. Unless falling on your back/kidneys could cause it - he did seem to fall sort of straight back. You mean straight forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) Whatever you think of the individual cases, the worlds media covering 35000+ people protesting over the course of 10500 police shifts has resulted in huge coverage of just 2 instances of whether or not force was excessive, 100 arrests and 145 complaints... http://news.scotsman.com/uk/145-complaints...ling.5179524.jp Hardly reason to tear apart the force IYAM. Edited April 17, 2009 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Whatever you think of the individual cases, the worlds media covering 35000+ people protesting over the course of 10500 police shifts has resulted in huge coverage of just 2 instances of whether or not force was excessive, 100 arrests and 145 complaints... http://news.scotsman.com/uk/145-complaints...ling.5179524.jp Hardly reason to tear apart the force IYAM. I feel sorry for plod, in general. The slagging they get at times is just incredible. And how the majority of them on riot duty remain calm, in the face of some of these tossers 'on the other side', just amazes me. I know what I'd like to do to some of them (the protesters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) Ultimate in cat among pigeons: New PM They all bend to Fop's will in the end. Tomlinson officer questioned on suspicion of manslaughter Probably as much manslaughter as say pushing/punching someone over and giving them a fatal brain bleed (which someone was convicted of today come to think of it). Hardly. Edited April 17, 2009 by Fop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17828 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Ultimate in cat among pigeons: New PM They all bend to Fop's will in the end. Tomlinson officer questioned on suspicion of manslaughter Probably as much manslaughter as say pushing/punching someone over and giving them a fatal brain bleed (which someone was convicted of today come to think of it). Hardly. FFS Fop what's up with your reasoning? That's when it was being reported as a heart attack and he wasn't being charged with anything serious. Now things are different and they are. Unless you're claiming some foresight into the man's second post mortem, what's your point? If his death is directly attributable to the policeman's violence, of course it's manslaughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMoog 0 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Ultimate in cat among pigeons: New PM They all bend to Fop's will in the end. Tomlinson officer questioned on suspicion of manslaughter Probably as much manslaughter as say pushing/punching someone over and giving them a fatal brain bleed (which someone was convicted of today come to think of it). Hardly. FFS Fop what's up with your reasoning? That's when it was being reported as a heart attack and he wasn't being charged with anything serious. Now things are different and they are. Unless you're claiming some foresight into the man's second post mortem, what's your point? If his death is directly attributable to the policeman's violence, of course it's manslaughter. Sounds like a load of bollocks to me, bloody protesting, wanky scumbags - they should have opened up on them with rubber bullets, that would have cleared them. And that dick that had the heart attck should have used some common sense, looked to me like he was dawdling on purpose even though the police had told him to shift it - anyone with half a brain wouldn't have been in that position in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I've actually seen the video of the lass properly now as opposed to just seeing the bit where she was struck with the baton and I hope the copper gets sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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