Our finances

[Monkeys Fist 38884]

This thread

[LeazesMag 0]

I feel I have something valuable to contribute here; I've been observing this situation for a long time, and I don't think Ashley has any serious ambition to propel this football club - one of the biggest in the country - into the stratosphere of success. Without ambition and spending we aren't going to get anywhere, and Mike Ashley may have a lot of things, but serious ambition for the football club isn't one of them.

 

 

Given the bar chart what are expecting him to do?

 

I'm expecting him to do nothing, or next to nothing, because it is quite clear he has no serious ambitions for the football club.

 

would be highly ironic if, despite the protestations of those who insist the Halls and Shepherd were taking the club towards administration, that it is Mike Ashley who succeeds in accomplishing it in the end.

 

Which would mean, the Halls and Shepherd having saved the club from administration, rescuing the club from decades of falling revenues and 2nd rate standards, we then see someone else coming in and accomplishing that very thing through reversing everything they put into place which gave us such a massively expanded football club, stadium, and profile in the game.

 

This is the way the club is heading, again, unless he sells out.

 

Charts are by in large for idiots. Smart people look at numbers not pictures.

 

The bar chart shows a massive lump into debt, but anyone looking at the numbers knows the issue encountered was we had a massive wage bill and low income. Now we are back in the premiership and the wage bill is significantly lower, we are actually in a much stronger position.

 

Hopefully Ashley will have learnt from our relegation season and bring in a striker.

 

I'm not looking at any bars or charts. I know, simply through observing lessons of the past and judgement of the owners' motives.

 

There is a small chance he may have learnt from the past relegation and realise he doesn't want it again, but that doesn't say much. I stand by the assertion that this is all he wants from this club, to stay in the premiership and attempt to make a profit. What he ought to understand by now, is that he bought into the myth that we always have 50,000 supporters. This support was built up, and attracted to the club because they were given hope for success on the pitch and through that the raising of the clubs profile. This support is disappearing fast, and will continue. It will eventually go down to the sub-30,000 levels again, faster than he or some others think.

[Phil 6]

I feel I have something valuable to contribute here; I've been observing this situation for a long time, and I don't think Ashley has any serious ambition to propel this football club - one of the biggest in the country - into the stratosphere of success. Without ambition and spending we aren't going to get anywhere, and Mike Ashley may have a lot of things, but serious ambition for the football club isn't one of them.

 

 

Given the bar chart what are expecting him to do?

 

I'm expecting him to do nothing, or next to nothing, because it is quite clear he has no serious ambitions for the football club.

 

would be highly ironic if, despite the protestations of those who insist the Halls and Shepherd were taking the club towards administration, that it is Mike Ashley who succeeds in accomplishing it in the end.

 

Which would mean, the Halls and Shepherd having saved the club from administration, rescuing the club from decades of falling revenues and 2nd rate standards, we then see someone else coming in and accomplishing that very thing through reversing everything they put into place which gave us such a massively expanded football club, stadium, and profile in the game.

 

This is the way the club is heading, again, unless he sells out.

 

Charts are by in large for idiots. Smart people look at numbers not pictures.

 

The bar chart shows a massive lump into debt, but anyone looking at the numbers knows the issue encountered was we had a massive wage bill and low income. Now we are back in the premiership and the wage bill is significantly lower, we are actually in a much stronger position.

 

Hopefully Ashley will have learnt from our relegation season and bring in a striker.

 

Charts are for idiots? That's up there with teachers teach you how to be thick.

 

The numbers represented in the chart show we're yet to see any evidence of a wage bill under control....

 

 

Wages have not gone down at all, in real terms the amount rose slightly. Turnover has taken a significant dip (and these numbers precede relegation) so the wages to turnover ratio shot up in the last set of results and is likely to increase again, despite the exoudus, because turnover would have been so much lower again in the championship.

 

 

No one who runs their a company uses graphs. They are for middle managers in medium to large companies.

 

Any clown can tell our income has rocketed and we haven't added anywhere near that to the wage bill. You can stare at as many graphs as you want, but common sense knows promotion was a massive step towards resetting NUFC on the correct path.

 

 

fwiw, those that can do, those that can't teach.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

I don't no if it's been said before in this thread, but Mike Ashley has no serious ambitions for this football club, and if he doesn't - which he doesn't - it means we are going absolutely nowhere during his tenure; we will achieve nothing. End of.

[LeazesMag 0]

I don't no if it's been said before in this thread, but Mike Ashley has no serious ambitions for this football club, and if he doesn't - which he doesn't - it means we are going absolutely nowhere during his tenure; we will achieve nothing. End of.

 

if you don't stop imitating me, they will start thinking that you actually are me again

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

You know fuck-all about me

Edited December 14, 2010 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt

[Happy Face 29]

Any clown can tell our income has rocketed and we haven't added anywhere near that to the wage bill. You can stare at as many graphs as you want, but common sense knows promotion was a massive step towards resetting NUFC on the correct path.

 

The only income "rocket" is that the new TV deal will be in place for the accounts that come out after the next set...as the article says our profits in the past were predicated much less on tv money than other clubs, matchday and commercial were huge. These will remain lower than they used to be. Attendances will probably drop further next year now that season ticket holderrs 3 year deals are ending....our shirt sponsorship deal is worth half the previous one and runs for 4 years (it reduces if we're relegated again too).

 

Financially, the figures will get worse before they get better, and Newcastle have estimated a loss of £32.5 million for the Championship season in 2009/10. However, the club is aiming for self-sufficiency now that it is back in the Premier League, and this should be feasible, especially with the new TV deal and the reduction in wages after the clear out of so many high earners after relegation. My own estimate is for a £5 million profit, which assumes £45 million TV revenue, 10% reduction in match day income compared to the last time in Premier League, commercial revenue reduced by £2 million for the lower sponsorship deal, a £50 million wage bill and £15 million profit on player sales (Sebastien Bassong, Obafemi Martins and Damien Duff).

 

£5m profit...assuming £15m profit on player sales.

 

Edited December 14, 2010 by Happy Face

[LeazesMag 0]

Any clown can tell our income has rocketed and we haven't added anywhere near that to the wage bill. You can stare at as many graphs as you want, but common sense knows promotion was a massive step towards resetting NUFC on the correct path.

 

The only income "rocket" is that the new TV deal will be in place for the accounts that come out after the next set...as the article says our profits in the past were predicated much less on tv money than other clubs, matchday and commercial were huge. These will remain lower than they used to be. Attendances will probably drop further next year now that season ticket holderrs 3 year deals are ending.

 

Financially, the figures will get worse before they get better, and Newcastle have estimated a loss of £32.5 million for the Championship season in 2009/10. However, the club is aiming for self-sufficiency now that it is back in the Premier League, and this should be feasible, especially with the new TV deal and the reduction in wages after the clear out of so many high earners after relegation. My own estimate is for a £5 million profit, which assumes £45 million TV revenue, 10% reduction in match day income compared to the last time in Premier League, commercial revenue reduced by £2 million for the lower sponsorship deal, a £50 million wage bill and £15 million profit on player sales (Sebastien Bassong, Obafemi Martins and Damien Duff).

 

£5m profit...assuming £15m profit on player sales.

 

 

and there you have it.

[LeazesMag 0]

You know fuck-all about me

 

yes I do.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Also, i know people dont like CT's opinions but tbf, i'd be embarrassed to let fans of other clubs see us characterise 8th as struggling.

 

CT's opinion is we can push for 4th though.

 

There's a fine line to be walked keeping opposing fans from cringing to be sure.

 

 

Sometimes your anger is so obvious for whats gon before that it spoils your enjoyment of here and now.

 

My point was that had we being slightly more luckier and not lost Ben Arfa or Barton there is a good chance we would have fun a few more games. We are only 9 points off 4th ffs.

 

A majority of this board is so infuritaed with Ashley taht they cant see the wood for the trees.

 

When all were predicting a drop straight into division two we romped the championship. When all were predicting a season of dread in the prem, we are doping quite well and could easily be doing a lot better wit a little luck.

 

Ashley has made some big errors but thank fuck he arrived when he did and Im sure we have more chance of staying up and becoming succesful under him than we do with some short term arab or indian chicken farmer.

[manc-mag 1]

Also, i know people dont like CT's opinions but tbf, i'd be embarrassed to let fans of other clubs see us characterise 8th as struggling.

 

CT's opinion is we can push for 4th though.

 

There's a fine line to be walked keeping opposing fans from cringing to be sure.

 

 

Sometimes your anger is so obvious for whats gon before that it spoils your enjoyment of here and now.

 

My point was that had we being slightly more luckier and not lost Ben Arfa or Barton there is a good chance we would have fun a few more games. We are only 9 points off 4th ffs.

 

A majority of this board is so infuritaed with Ashley taht they cant see the wood for the trees.

 

When all were predicting a drop straight into division two we romped the championship. When all were predicting a season of dread in the prem, we are doping quite well and could easily be doing a lot better wit a little luck.

 

Ashley has made some big errors but thank fuck he arrived when he did and Im sure we have more chance of staying up and becoming succesful under him than we do with some short term arab or indian chicken farmer.

 

[Park Life 70]

I feel I have something valuable to contribute here; I've been observing this situation for a long time, and I don't think Ashley has any serious ambition to propel this football club - one of the biggest in the country - into the stratosphere of success. Without ambition and spending we aren't going to get anywhere, and Mike Ashley may have a lot of things, but serious ambition for the football club isn't one of them.

 

 

Given the bar chart what are expecting him to do?

 

I'm expecting him to do nothing, or next to nothing, because it is quite clear he has no serious ambitions for the football club.

 

would be highly ironic if, despite the protestations of those who insist the Halls and Shepherd were taking the club towards administration, that it is Mike Ashley who succeeds in accomplishing it in the end.

 

Which would mean, the Halls and Shepherd having saved the club from administration, rescuing the club from decades of falling revenues and 2nd rate standards, we then see someone else coming in and accomplishing that very thing through reversing everything they put into place which gave us such a massively expanded football club, stadium, and profile in the game.

 

This is the way the club is heading, again, unless he sells out.

 

Charts are by in large for idiots. Smart people look at numbers not pictures.

 

The bar chart shows a massive lump into debt, but anyone looking at the numbers knows the issue encountered was we had a massive wage bill and low income. Now we are back in the premiership and the wage bill is significantly lower, we are actually in a much stronger position.

 

Hopefully Ashley will have learnt from our relegation season and bring in a striker.

 

Charts are for idiots? That's up there with teachers teach you how to be thick.

 

The numbers represented in the chart show we're yet to see any evidence of a wage bill under control....

 

 

Wages have not gone down at all, in real terms the amount rose slightly. Turnover has taken a significant dip (and these numbers precede relegation) so the wages to turnover ratio shot up in the last set of results and is likely to increase again, despite the exoudus, because turnover would have been so much lower again in the championship.

 

This seasons fig will be a lot better I imagine.

[Happy Face 29]

Also, i know people dont like CT's opinions but tbf, i'd be embarrassed to let fans of other clubs see us characterise 8th as struggling.

 

CT's opinion is we can push for 4th though.

 

There's a fine line to be walked keeping opposing fans from cringing to be sure.

 

 

Sometimes your anger is so obvious for whats gon before that it spoils your enjoyment of here and now.

 

My point was that had we being slightly more luckier and not lost Ben Arfa or Barton there is a good chance we would have fun a few more games. We are only 9 points off 4th ffs.

 

A majority of this board is so infuritaed with Ashley taht they cant see the wood for the trees.

 

When all were predicting a drop straight into division two we romped the championship. When all were predicting a season of dread in the prem, we are doping quite well and could easily be doing a lot better wit a little luck.

 

Ashley has made some big errors but thank fuck he arrived when he did and Im sure we have more chance of staying up and becoming succesful under him than we do with some short term arab or indian chicken farmer.

 

Anger?

 

In this thread I've said Ashley saved us and seems to have learned from his mistakes. He's clearly made mistakes though, and the plan to break even does suggest I'll be in my 90's before we're in a position to make a push for the Champions league.

 

Oh...and the polls on here said most expected promotion straight back up too.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Happy Face

[ChezGiven 0]

We're 8th and have had some absolutely brilliant results and there is no reason for optimism?

 

Also, i know people dont like CT's opinions but tbf, i'd be embarrassed to let fans of other clubs see us characterise 8th as struggling. We all know why we can think that because we all expect it to go wrong. However, as of today, we arent struggling this season.

 

I'm optimistic that we will strengthen this January based on the last 2 windows. I'm far less optimistic that Pardew can keep us going at the same level nevermind improve us but lets wait and see.

 

Ashleys a cunt but i'm not going to stick my head up my arse because of it.

 

not sticking my head up my arse at all. And while I don't particularly care for the thought that other fans see us dismissing being 8th in the table, there is a long way to go yet, this season. I just don't think Mike Ashley will ever harbour any serious ambitions at this football club, a few results [defeats or wins] is neither here nor there.

 

On the other hand, I didn't care when other fans supposedly "laughed" at us, so why give a toss if they think we are "arrogant" ? [ presume that is what you are getting at here CG ]

 

I don't think I'm either anyway, I'm just aware we are one of the biggest clubs in the country, and I'll counter that by also admitting that we have never had the success to justify that to other supporters - hence the reason they aren't aware of how big this club should be.

 

Good post. There is a long way to go and it was only a few weeks back i was brimming with optimism just to come crashing back down to earth when we looked shit again.

 

Yes i do think we might look a bit arrogant by saying we are struggling because others wont look at it the way we do. They dont have the gnawing feeling at the pit of their stomach that things will go to fucking shit without warning (that all too recognisable feeling we all felt last monday) and they havent watched us all season and seen that along with the potential to play well, there is also a team of shite just waiting to dribble out the back of 11 pairs of shorts at a moment's notice. They just see the geordies are in 8th, arent they doing well. The proximity in points to 17th place is rarely mentioned.

 

As for the ambition question, the only thing i can say is that with the new financial rules coming in, business margins and large home crowds will give us an edge over oil men and chicken farmers if expenditure is limited by turnover. A decent manager is the crux of the issue though, so who knows what Pardew will bring to that.

[Happy Face 29]

This seasons fig will be a lot better I imagine.

 

Wages will be about 60%...about what it was the season before Ashley took over.

[ChezGiven 0]

Important bits

 

Since then, the club has registered pre-tax losses of £12 million in 2006, £34 million in 2007, £20 million in 2008 and £15 million in 2009.

 

The largest loss comes the year he took us over (August 2007), the losses are steadied but his attempts to reduce them further in 2009 cost us our place in the premiership.

[LeazesMag 0]

We're 8th and have had some absolutely brilliant results and there is no reason for optimism?

 

Also, i know people dont like CT's opinions but tbf, i'd be embarrassed to let fans of other clubs see us characterise 8th as struggling. We all know why we can think that because we all expect it to go wrong. However, as of today, we arent struggling this season.

 

I'm optimistic that we will strengthen this January based on the last 2 windows. I'm far less optimistic that Pardew can keep us going at the same level nevermind improve us but lets wait and see.

 

Ashleys a cunt but i'm not going to stick my head up my arse because of it.

 

not sticking my head up my arse at all. And while I don't particularly care for the thought that other fans see us dismissing being 8th in the table, there is a long way to go yet, this season. I just don't think Mike Ashley will ever harbour any serious ambitions at this football club, a few results [defeats or wins] is neither here nor there.

 

On the other hand, I didn't care when other fans supposedly "laughed" at us, so why give a toss if they think we are "arrogant" ? [ presume that is what you are getting at here CG ]

 

I don't think I'm either anyway, I'm just aware we are one of the biggest clubs in the country, and I'll counter that by also admitting that we have never had the success to justify that to other supporters - hence the reason they aren't aware of how big this club should be.

 

Good post. There is a long way to go and it was only a few weeks back i was brimming with optimism just to come crashing back down to earth when we looked shit again.

 

Yes i do think we might look a bit arrogant by saying we are struggling because others wont look at it the way we do. They dont have the gnawing feeling at the pit of their stomach that things will go to fucking shit without warning (that all too recognisable feeling we all felt last monday) and they havent watched us all season and seen that along with the potential to play well, there is also a team of shite just waiting to dribble out the back of 11 pairs of shorts at a moment's notice. They just see the geordies are in 8th, arent they doing well. The proximity in points to 17th place is rarely mentioned.

 

As for the ambition question, the only thing i can say is that with the new financial rules coming in, business margins and large home crowds will give us an edge over oil men and chicken farmers if expenditure is limited by turnover. A decent manager is the crux of the issue though, so who knows what Pardew will bring to that.

 

I'm not going to disagree about large home crowds. They have to be attracted to the club though, it's not automatic, they are there but only if we can get them to come. So to that extent, your comment about "others seeing the Geordies in 8th position aren't they doing well", in my opinion that is part of my point ie others don't realise that for us, 8th position is not good enough. Thats not to say we should be booing them, just that we should be aware it's not good enough and trying to do better. Liverpool for instance are in crisis if they are not in europe. We should also be seen in this light.

 

A decent manager, with backing, is the essence of every successful club. You need both. A good manager will leave for a club with more backing. Owen Coyle will get a bigger job than Bolton, no disrespect to Bolton.

 

Contrary to what others insinuate I say - and I have corrected them on occasions - I don't want the club to spend tons of money and bankrupt itself, but we should be among the top speculative clubs, all the time, to tap the fanbase which is potentially even bigger than 52,000. The Keegan years showed this.

[LeazesMag 0]

I'm going out now, but in response to these charts and the current flow of the thread, cost cutting and relying on player sales to make a profit, will only go one way.

 

Downwards, and less revenue, more cost cutting, further downwards.

[ChezGiven 0]

Also

 

Nevertheless, it has been estimated that some £25 million was chopped off the wage bill, reducing it to around £45 million.

 

But

 

Clearly, the TV allocation in the Championship in 2009/10 was much lower at just over £2 million. Although the impact of relegation was partly cushioned by the £12 million parachute payment, this still meant a drop in media revenue of around £23 million

 

So that from a pure cash point of view, we reduced costs by £2m more than we lost revenue last year. I also think the TV allocation from last season is a bit conservative, we were on TV every week last year. Not sure how it works in the FA though.

 

It does make me wonder how much of our expected record loss for last year will be Interest, Taxation, Depreciation and Amortisation.

[Happy Face 29]

We're 8th and have had some absolutely brilliant results and there is no reason for optimism?

 

Also, i know people dont like CT's opinions but tbf, i'd be embarrassed to let fans of other clubs see us characterise 8th as struggling. We all know why we can think that because we all expect it to go wrong. However, as of today, we arent struggling this season.

 

I'm optimistic that we will strengthen this January based on the last 2 windows. I'm far less optimistic that Pardew can keep us going at the same level nevermind improve us but lets wait and see.

 

Ashleys a cunt but i'm not going to stick my head up my arse because of it.

 

not sticking my head up my arse at all. And while I don't particularly care for the thought that other fans see us dismissing being 8th in the table, there is a long way to go yet, this season. I just don't think Mike Ashley will ever harbour any serious ambitions at this football club, a few results [defeats or wins] is neither here nor there.

 

On the other hand, I didn't care when other fans supposedly "laughed" at us, so why give a toss if they think we are "arrogant" ? [ presume that is what you are getting at here CG ]

 

I don't think I'm either anyway, I'm just aware we are one of the biggest clubs in the country, and I'll counter that by also admitting that we have never had the success to justify that to other supporters - hence the reason they aren't aware of how big this club should be.

 

Good post. There is a long way to go and it was only a few weeks back i was brimming with optimism just to come crashing back down to earth when we looked shit again.

 

Yes i do think we might look a bit arrogant by saying we are struggling because others wont look at it the way we do. They dont have the gnawing feeling at the pit of their stomach that things will go to fucking shit without warning (that all too recognisable feeling we all felt last monday) and they havent watched us all season and seen that along with the potential to play well, there is also a team of shite just waiting to dribble out the back of 11 pairs of shorts at a moment's notice. They just see the geordies are in 8th, arent they doing well. The proximity in points to 17th place is rarely mentioned.

 

As for the ambition question, the only thing i can say is that with the new financial rules coming in, business margins and large home crowds will give us an edge over oil men and chicken farmers if expenditure is limited by turnover. A decent manager is the crux of the issue though, so who knows what Pardew will bring to that.

 

I'm not going to disagree about large home crowds. They have to be attracted to the club though, it's not automatic, they are there but only if we can get them to come.

 

Promotion's only managed to recover 3000 of the 9000 he lost from the gate with the Keegan debacle and relegation...

 

07/08 - 52000

08/09 - 49000

09/10 - 43000

10/11 - 46000

 

I'd imagine the Hughton debacle and the end of Direct Debit tie ins will see the biggest drop off yet next season.

[Problem Child 0]

For me this picture says it all....

 

 

Can't see how anyone can say Ashley has the club looking healthy the way our debt has exploded since his arrival.

In the space of two years we went from owing the banks £77m to owing Mike Ashley £282m. Whichever way it’s spun it’s a damming indictment of the way the club has been run. If Shepherd and Hall hadn’t sold up the banks would have forced the club to take steps to put the business on a sound financial footing. Unfortunately Ashley appeared on the scene and fiscal prudence went out the window and throwing money around came in.

 

I know people will go on about the wage to turnover ratio, but the cost of improving this a little bit has cost the club the thick end of £200m. It’s an absurdly expensive way of making a small amount of progress on the operating front.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Problem Child

[ChezGiven 0]

In the space of two years we went from owing the banks £77m to owing Mike Ashley £282m.

 

No.

 

£138m is the cost of the club which Ashley lent to SJ Holdings when he purchased the club. £107m is the net debt position in 2008, 4 months after Ashley took control giving a gross debt of £245m in 2008. This increases because the company continued to make losses in 2008 so that gross debt of SJ Holdings and the club became £282m in 2009.

 

The money owed to Ashley by SJ Holdings fell from £138m in 2008 to £132m in 2009 because Ashley paid himself £6m back. This is the main idiotic thing i can see as far as i can tell.

[Problem Child 0]

In the space of two years we went from owing the banks £77m to owing Mike Ashley £282m.

 

No.

 

£138m is the cost of the club which Ashley lent to SJ Holdings when he purchased the club. £107m is the net debt position in 2008, 4 months after Ashley took control giving a gross debt of £245m in 2008. This increases because the company continued to make losses in 2008 so that gross debt of SJ Holdings and the club became £282m in 2009.

 

The money owed to Ashley by SJ Holdings fell from £138m in 2008 to £132m in 2009 because Ashley paid himself £6m back. This is the main idiotic thing i can see as far as i can tell.

Precisely. He paid himself back part of the purchase price out of the club’s coffers, which implies he sees the loan to SJP Holdings as a loan to the club. I can’t belief anyone is falling for this holding company nonsense, even the FA have seen through that one.

[ChezGiven 0]

In the space of two years we went from owing the banks £77m to owing Mike Ashley £282m.

 

No.

 

£138m is the cost of the club which Ashley lent to SJ Holdings when he purchased the club. £107m is the net debt position in 2008, 4 months after Ashley took control giving a gross debt of £245m in 2008. This increases because the company continued to make losses in 2008 so that gross debt of SJ Holdings and the club became £282m in 2009.

 

The money owed to Ashley by SJ Holdings fell from £138m in 2008 to £132m in 2009 because Ashley paid himself £6m back. This is the main idiotic thing i can see as far as i can tell.

Precisely. He paid himself back part of the purchase price out of the club’s coffers, which implies he sees the loan to SJP Holdings as a loan to the club. I can’t belief anyone is falling for this holding company nonsense, even the FA have seen through that one.

Yes but at the same time you see the bank loans reduce to £0m in that figure and it then states "Since the 2009 year-end, Ashley advanced a further £25.5 million to keep the club ticking over in the Championship"

 

Not sure what you are trying to imply but him being personally £6m better off wouldnt be accurate.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

We're 8th and have had some absolutely brilliant results and there is no reason for optimism?

 

Also, i know people dont like CT's opinions but tbf, i'd be embarrassed to let fans of other clubs see us characterise 8th as struggling. We all know why we can think that because we all expect it to go wrong. However, as of today, we arent struggling this season.

 

I'm optimistic that we will strengthen this January based on the last 2 windows. I'm far less optimistic that Pardew can keep us going at the same level nevermind improve us but lets wait and see.

 

Ashleys a cunt but i'm not going to stick my head up my arse because of it.

 

not sticking my head up my arse at all. And while I don't particularly care for the thought that other fans see us dismissing being 8th in the table, there is a long way to go yet, this season. I just don't think Mike Ashley will ever harbour any serious ambitions at this football club, a few results [defeats or wins] is neither here nor there.

 

On the other hand, I didn't care when other fans supposedly "laughed" at us, so why give a toss if they think we are "arrogant" ? [ presume that is what you are getting at here CG ]

 

I don't think I'm either anyway, I'm just aware we are one of the biggest clubs in the country, and I'll counter that by also admitting that we have never had the success to justify that to other supporters - hence the reason they aren't aware of how big this club should be.

 

Good post. There is a long way to go and it was only a few weeks back i was brimming with optimism just to come crashing back down to earth when we looked shit again.

 

Yes i do think we might look a bit arrogant by saying we are struggling because others wont look at it the way we do. They dont have the gnawing feeling at the pit of their stomach that things will go to fucking shit without warning (that all too recognisable feeling we all felt last monday) and they havent watched us all season and seen that along with the potential to play well, there is also a team of shite just waiting to dribble out the back of 11 pairs of shorts at a moment's notice. They just see the geordies are in 8th, arent they doing well. The proximity in points to 17th place is rarely mentioned.

 

As for the ambition question, the only thing i can say is that with the new financial rules coming in, business margins and large home crowds will give us an edge over oil men and chicken farmers if expenditure is limited by turnover. A decent manager is the crux of the issue though, so who knows what Pardew will bring to that.

 

I'm not going to disagree about large home crowds. They have to be attracted to the club though, it's not automatic, they are there but only if we can get them to come. So to that extent, your comment about "others seeing the Geordies in 8th position aren't they doing well", in my opinion that is part of my point ie others don't realise that for us, 8th position is not good enough. Thats not to say we should be booing them, just that we should be aware it's not good enough and trying to do better. Liverpool for instance are in crisis if they are not in europe. We should also be seen in this light.

 

A decent manager, with backing, is the essence of every successful club. You need both. A good manager will leave for a club with more backing. Owen Coyle will get a bigger job than Bolton, no disrespect to Bolton.

 

Contrary to what others insinuate I say - and I have corrected them on occasions - I don't want the club to spend tons of money and bankrupt itself, but we should be among the top speculative clubs, all the time, to tap the fanbase which is potentially even bigger than 52,000. The Keegan years showed this.

 

 

What a load of shite you talk at times Leazes.

 

There is absolutely no comparison with Liverpools success over the last 40 years to our lack of it.

 

Liverpool used to wine everything not so long ago, we have to go back to the 50's ffs.

 

We were in the right place at the right time under KK but still won fuck all. It was a nice ride but you seem to think that those few years in the last 50 give us all sort of stature rights. Your just plain daft at times.