Stable Financial Footing

[ChezGiven 0]

I was asking for this with the OP really wasn't I?

We all reap what we sow.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

This stable financial footing Ashley claims to be putting us on.

 

1. Do you believe it? i.e. that MA is working toward making NUFC more sustainable?

 

Yes I believe he trying to improve the clubs finances.

 

2. Will it be a platform to challenge or is it merely to engineer profit?

 

To engineer a sale.

 

3. If the football bubble ever does burst (I don't think it will) will we really be in a better position to exploit the post-bubble neo-prem?

 

Can only be more advantageous to be in a healthy financial position.

 

4. Once he has this stable footing, how many years of that before we will compete again, if ever? I mean how many years of uncompetitive stability before even the MA backers realise he is never going to show ambition or win anything, or will we actually push on and how long may that take?

 

Depends what you mean by competing. If top 6 then we could have been competing for that this year with a tad more luck. Champions league is a rich clubs plaything these days. Cant really see that changing.

 

5. What price do you think he would take for the club now? You have to factor in the ££££'s free advertising his company is getting too....how much for his international billboard? Is Sports Direct expanding internationally? That would make his continued 'sponsorship' highly valuable and very cheap.

 

No Idea

 

6. And so we can have a laugh in September, what amount of £35m will be spent on transfer fees in the summer?

 

Anything less than a 30mill spend would be disappointing

 

For me its now all about the summer. It we dont spend a lot then we finally will have no doubt about his intentions.

 

To be fair there's only you and Skidmark that don't see the guy for what he is.

 

Tbf i agree with most that CT has to say. And again on this he is correct.

 

I do see FMA for what he is...he is a business man with no REAL affiliation or love for our club. He is trying to do everything on the cheap and it is a gamble but it could work. If it does work then it will only put us in a much stronger position.

 

Now us fans are frustrated because we have been blessed with european football and title races in the past but it is exactly that. The past.

 

LM Bangs on about how expectations have been lowered, and rightly so.

 

We have to ride this out, rough few years not compeating for much. But this is what needs to happen if we are going to dig ourselves out of that almighty whole FFS and SJH left us in.

 

Good times will come about again, we may flirt with a chance of europe in the near future but it will only be sustainable once our financial situation is sorted.

 

Id love to see the days when we spend massive money and play in europe just now but i honestly think for all i hate FMA for some of the things that have went on and the fact he doesnt love OUR club, he as a business man will put us on a good standing.

 

So long as the gamble doesnt go tits up.

 

 

Cant fault you tbf. One of the ones who can see the big picture.

[plausibledenial 0]

Ashley is doing anything and everything in order to boost profits ..in order to help Mike Ashley ....no one else ..certainly not the club ...thats the big picture ....reality ....

[LeazesMag 0]

Fookin' prawns!

 

we are now nearly 4 years into Mike Ashleys "plan". You couldn't make it up.

 

If Shepherd had stayed, where do you think we'd be ???

 

you mean the Halls and Shepherd ? Do you know where we were when they took over the club ? When do you think someone will come in and match their european and Champions League qualifications, and growth of the club, as you appear to think they were so useless ?

 

know exactly where we were, I'm nearly as old as you for fucks sake. They did a great job initially but when SJh stepped back the bubble burst, we had our time and we blew it. We're paying for it now and it's going to be a slow climb back

 

you mean you are aware we nearly went into administration ?

 

We would not have been relegated under the Halls and Shepherd, and so it would not have been such a "slow climb back". We will not "climb back" under Mike Ashley, because he does not have the ambition nor does he want to show the ambition. So your idealistic view is futile. It will not happen because he isn't prepared to take the risks, instead he is presiding over a club with revenues and gates tumbling, which only means competing at an even lower level. Liverpool have the right idea by the way, they proved it yesterday, they will get into the Champions League long before any club owned by Mike Ashley.

 

Jul 2006 Garra Dembele FWD Auxerre

On Trial

 

Jul 2006 Michael Morrison DEF Cambridge United

On Trial

 

Jul 2006 David Templeton FWD Stenhousemuir

On Trial

Jul 2006 Damien Duff MID Chelsea

£5m

 

Aug 2006 Paul Huntington DEF Plymouth

Trial ended

 

Aug 2006 Obafemi Martins FWD Inter Milan

£10.14m

 

Aug 2006 Wael Gomaa DEF Al-Ahly

On Trial

 

Aug 2006 Giuseppe Rossi FWD Manchester United

4 month loan

 

Aug 2006 Antoine Sibierski MID Manchester City

fee tbc

 

Sep 2006 Olivier Bernard DEF Rangers

free

 

Sep 2006 Pavel Srnicek DEF Unattached

4 month deal

 

Dec 2006 Pierre Boya FWD Partizan Belgrade

Trial

 

Jan 2007 Oguchi Onyewu DEF Standard Liege

4 month loan

 

Feb 2007 Lee Kerr FWD Whitley Bay

Trial

 

Apr 2007 Erol Bulut DEF Olympiakos

Trial

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shepherd/Hall's last two transfer windows. Full of trial's, loans and even Duff is 'basement bargain' in line with your comments about Ben Arfa. We sold £7.5m worth of players that summer too, as well as Shearer retiring. We were definitely heading towards the top four like a freight train like, weren't we Leazes

 

That's Leazes problem, he thinks we were in the champions league when we Freddy left !!!

 

BTW, shame we hadn't held onto Templeton, canny little player now

 

problem, is the 2 of you can't see a poorly run football club when it stares you in the face. Well run teams don't qualifyfor europe more than any other club bar 4 in a 15 year period. The last couple of years under the old regime may have been a "rebuild" [as Skidders etc keep saying] but they didn't have to get relegated to do it, just like early in Bobby Robsons reign when they backed him to buy 2 players that propelled the club back into the top places again. Mike Ashley would never do that, and that is what Liverpool are attempting to do now.

 

I can accept skidders being ignorant of the predecessors to the Halls and Shepherd and therefore not appreciating them, but not Toonpack.

 

After almost 4 years of Mike Ashleys "plan", surely by now people can see that these "plans" mean fuck all, and Mike Ashley is not just an unambitious owner of a football club but representative of a lot of other prospective owners too. There is no guarantee a new owner may not be the same as Ashley, maybe then and only then some people will understand that ambition is a choice to be made and appreciate the next time we have owners who also have it.

[Holden McGroin 4869]

I didnt realise we had Dembele on trial.

[trophyshy 6434]

After almost 4 years of Mike Ashleys "plan", surely by now people can see that these "plans" mean fuck all, and Mike Ashley is not just an unambitious owner of a football club but representative of a lot of other prospective owners too. There is no guarantee a new owner may not be the same as Ashley, maybe then and only then some people will understand that ambition is a choice to be made and appreciate the next time we have owners who also have it.

 

You do say it a lot but it is spot on.

 

i appreciated it, and got a taste for it. Now I struggle to see it or even imagine it over the horizon.

[scoular 0]

After almost 4 years of Mike Ashleys "plan", surely by now people can see that these "plans" mean fuck all, and Mike Ashley is not just an unambitious owner of a football club but representative of a lot of other prospective owners too. There is no guarantee a new owner may not be the same as Ashley, maybe then and only then some people will understand that ambition is a choice to be made and appreciate the next time we have owners who also have it.

 

You do say it a lot but it is spot on.

 

i appreciated it, and got a taste for it. Now I struggle to see it or even imagine it over the horizon.

Just suppose Ashley uses Carrol cash to pay off part of his loans, then takes as much other cash out of the club to pay as much of the rest of his loans as he can get his hands on, then walks away from the club, where would we be?

Probably unable to increase overdraft from Barclays, unable to pay wages, straight into administration, 20 point deduction, Division 2, here we come.

[trophyshy 6434]

After almost 4 years of Mike Ashleys "plan", surely by now people can see that these "plans" mean fuck all, and Mike Ashley is not just an unambitious owner of a football club but representative of a lot of other prospective owners too. There is no guarantee a new owner may not be the same as Ashley, maybe then and only then some people will understand that ambition is a choice to be made and appreciate the next time we have owners who also have it.

 

You do say it a lot but it is spot on.

 

i appreciated it, and got a taste for it. Now I struggle to see it or even imagine it over the horizon.

Just suppose Ashley uses Carrol cash to pay off part of his loans, then takes as much other cash out of the club to pay as much of the rest of his loans as he can get his hands on, then walks away from the club, where would we be?

Probably unable to increase overdraft from Barclays, unable to pay wages, straight into administration, 20 point deduction, Division 2, here we come.

 

Not sure what your point is here? The club is indebted to him? It's his club, he could choose to pour millions into it if he was ambitious and hope it works out - writing the cash off as a gamble - much the same way he does at the craps table.

[scoular 0]

After almost 4 years of Mike Ashleys "plan", surely by now people can see that these "plans" mean fuck all, and Mike Ashley is not just an unambitious owner of a football club but representative of a lot of other prospective owners too. There is no guarantee a new owner may not be the same as Ashley, maybe then and only then some people will understand that ambition is a choice to be made and appreciate the next time we have owners who also have it.

 

You do say it a lot but it is spot on.

 

i appreciated it, and got a taste for it. Now I struggle to see it or even imagine it over the horizon.

Just suppose Ashley uses Carrol cash to pay off part of his loans, then takes as much other cash out of the club to pay as much of the rest of his loans as he can get his hands on, then walks away from the club, where would we be?

Probably unable to increase overdraft from Barclays, unable to pay wages, straight into administration, 20 point deduction, Division 2, here we come.

 

Not sure what your point is here? The club is indebted to him? It's his club, he could choose to pour millions into it if he was ambitious and hope it works out - writing the cash off as a gamble - much the same way he does at the craps table.

My point is that there is no obligation on him to continue to make loans to the club. I agree that it would be very nice if he did, and made further investments in the playing staff. But he could decide to walk away, and cut his losses. A new owner for the club, would I would probably have to come in with about 300M to carry on running the club and make the necessary investments in the playing staff.

Highly unlikely to find such a person, so we are better off with Ashley, but please, please, please bring in a Chief Exec with some expert knowledge of how to run a football club.

[trophyshy 6434]

After almost 4 years of Mike Ashleys "plan", surely by now people can see that these "plans" mean fuck all, and Mike Ashley is not just an unambitious owner of a football club but representative of a lot of other prospective owners too. There is no guarantee a new owner may not be the same as Ashley, maybe then and only then some people will understand that ambition is a choice to be made and appreciate the next time we have owners who also have it.

 

You do say it a lot but it is spot on.

 

i appreciated it, and got a taste for it. Now I struggle to see it or even imagine it over the horizon.

Just suppose Ashley uses Carrol cash to pay off part of his loans, then takes as much other cash out of the club to pay as much of the rest of his loans as he can get his hands on, then walks away from the club, where would we be?

Probably unable to increase overdraft from Barclays, unable to pay wages, straight into administration, 20 point deduction, Division 2, here we come.

 

Not sure what your point is here? The club is indebted to him? It's his club, he could choose to pour millions into it if he was ambitious and hope it works out - writing the cash off as a gamble - much the same way he does at the craps table.

My point is that there is no obligation on him to continue to make loans to the club. I agree that it would be very nice if he did, and made further investments in the playing staff. But he could decide to walk away, and cut his losses. A new owner for the club, would I would probably have to come in with about 300M to carry on running the club and make the necessary investments in the playing staff.

Highly unlikely to find such a person, so we are better off with Ashley, but please, please, please bring in a Chief Exec with some expert knowledge of how to run a football club.

 

aye, ok.

Edited February 3, 2011 by trophyshy

[Guest alex]

Ashley's decision to 'walk away' is based solely on his ability to find a buyer. Also, I can't really get my head round this division between Ashley and the club, in terms of the loans etc. you're on about. Doesn't he own the club lock, stock and barrel?

[Ollie Burtons Grandad 0]

Why is it that some people here still cannot see Ashley for what he is, a Fat greedy bastard who wants to rape the club? Are they delusional, thick as shite or being paid to suck his dick?

 

The FCB cunning "plan" has lead to the worst strike force we have had in fucking years, made worse by Shola being injured. Having sat thru the shite that was on display last night at Fulham where our "strikers" were incapable of hitting a cows arse with a banjo from 5 paces I can only see a return to the Championship beckoning.

Do you suppose games against the likes of Scunthorpe are all part of the bastards plan then? Any chance of someone explaining exactly how we will be put on a "firm financial footing" by being relegated?

Edited February 3, 2011 by Ollie Burtons Grandad

[snakehips 0]

After almost 4 years of Mike Ashleys "plan", surely by now people can see that these "plans" mean fuck all, and Mike Ashley is not just an unambitious owner of a football club but representative of a lot of other prospective owners too. There is no guarantee a new owner may not be the same as Ashley, maybe then and only then some people will understand that ambition is a choice to be made and appreciate the next time we have owners who also have it.

 

Aren't plans a way of business life? Surely there is no such thing as not having a plan in place? After all, Sir John Hall stated in the 'Champions' video "...we had a five (think it was five, but I would have to see it again to check for certain) plan, but managed to do it in two (or somesuch)."

 

Maybe these plans - especially football plans - are determined on a heck of amount of luck, but to imagine that there's no plans in place at any other football club, any other football club, is surely wrong. I'm no business man, but that's how I would I imagine it to be right throughout the leagues.

[LeazesMag 0]

Why is it that some people here still cannot see Ashley for what he is, a Fat greedy bastard who wants to rape the club? Are they delusional, thick as shite or being paid to suck his dick?

 

The FCB cunning "plan" has lead to the worst strike force we have had in fucking years, made worse by Shola being injured. Having sat thru the shite that was on display last night at Fulham where our "strikers" were incapable of hitting a cows arse with a banjo from 5 paces I can only see a return to the Championship beckoning.

Do you suppose games against the likes of Scunthorpe are all part of the bastards plan then? Any chance of someone explaining exactly how we will be put on a "firm financial footing" by being relegated?

 

I've met your Grandson, you must be about 120 ?

 

[LeazesMag 0]

After almost 4 years of Mike Ashleys "plan", surely by now people can see that these "plans" mean fuck all, and Mike Ashley is not just an unambitious owner of a football club but representative of a lot of other prospective owners too. There is no guarantee a new owner may not be the same as Ashley, maybe then and only then some people will understand that ambition is a choice to be made and appreciate the next time we have owners who also have it.

 

Aren't plans a way of business life? Surely there is no such thing as not having a plan in place? After all, Sir John Hall stated in the 'Champions' video "...we had a five (think it was five, but I would have to see it again to check for certain) plan, but managed to do it in two (or somesuch)."

 

Maybe these plans - especially football plans - are determined on a heck of amount of luck, but to imagine that there's no plans in place at any other football club, any other football club, is surely wrong. I'm no business man, but that's how I would I imagine it to be right throughout the leagues.

 

what sort of "plan" ie objective do you "plan" for ?

 

Football is different man. Personnel change all the time, fortunes turn around completely within a few weeks [look no further than NUFC]. What is success ? Dickheads in the southern press say Keegan was a "failure" because he didn't win a trophy ? There are only 3 domestic cups, and a handful of european places, so what do you "plan" for ? All you do in football is appoint the manager and back him to the best of your ability, this is your "plan" ie backing your appointment, because when you change your manager you bring in another one with totally different ideas, judgements, backroom staff, everything, and you start all over again. And everybody wants the new Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger too. It's far more difficult and complex than just setting out a "business plan"

Edited February 3, 2011 by LeazesMag

[scoular 0]

Ashley's decision to 'walk away' is based solely on his ability to find a buyer. Also, I can't really get my head round this division between Ashley and the club, in terms of the loans etc. you're on about. Doesn't he own the club lock, stock and barrel?

Yes, he owns the club which is a limited company. He has made personal loans to the limited company of, I think, in excess of 200M. If a buyer could be found, he would be buying the total assets and liabilities of the club, including the 200M loan from Ashley. If a buyer could not be found, there is nothing to stop Ashley putting the club into administration, and walking away having repaid himself as much of his loan as he can get his hands on (including the 35M Carrol cash).

[snakehips 0]

After almost 4 years of Mike Ashleys "plan", surely by now people can see that these "plans" mean fuck all, and Mike Ashley is not just an unambitious owner of a football club but representative of a lot of other prospective owners too. There is no guarantee a new owner may not be the same as Ashley, maybe then and only then some people will understand that ambition is a choice to be made and appreciate the next time we have owners who also have it.

 

Aren't plans a way of business life? Surely there is no such thing as not having a plan in place? After all, Sir John Hall stated in the 'Champions' video "...we had a five (think it was five, but I would have to see it again to check for certain) plan, but managed to do it in two (or somesuch)."

 

Maybe these plans - especially football plans - are determined on a heck of amount of luck, but to imagine that there's no plans in place at any other football club, any other football club, is surely wrong. I'm no business man, but that's how I would I imagine it to be right throughout the leagues.

 

what sort of "plan" ie objective do you "plan" for ?

 

Football is different man. Personnel change all the time, fortunes turn around completely within a few weeks [look no further than NUFC]. What is success ? Dickheads in the southern press say Keegan was a "failure" because he didn't win a trophy ? There are only 3 domestic cups, and a handful of european places, so what do you "plan" for ? All you do in football is appoint the manager and back him to the best of your ability, this is your "plan" ie backing your appointment, because when you change your manager you bring in another one with totally different ideas, judgements, backroom staff, everything, and you start all over again. And everybody wants the new Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger too. It's far more difficult and complex than just setting out a "business plan"

 

I agree, but there is a 'plan'. Even Chelsea have a plan. When (can't think of his name. The ce who left Man U to go to Stamford Bridge. There's an e in his name!!!!???) went there, he stated the plan of Chelsea becoming self sufficient in x amount of years.

 

However, any 'plan' revolves around the success of the team. Whether that be remaining in the league (whatever league a club is in), or pushing on to gain promotion/play-offs/european football/becoming champions, the success can determined by the energy, belief, dynamics, desire and guts of the board. I think we agree on this last bit, at least.

[LeazesMag 0]

After almost 4 years of Mike Ashleys "plan", surely by now people can see that these "plans" mean fuck all, and Mike Ashley is not just an unambitious owner of a football club but representative of a lot of other prospective owners too. There is no guarantee a new owner may not be the same as Ashley, maybe then and only then some people will understand that ambition is a choice to be made and appreciate the next time we have owners who also have it.

 

Aren't plans a way of business life? Surely there is no such thing as not having a plan in place? After all, Sir John Hall stated in the 'Champions' video "...we had a five (think it was five, but I would have to see it again to check for certain) plan, but managed to do it in two (or somesuch)."

 

Maybe these plans - especially football plans - are determined on a heck of amount of luck, but to imagine that there's no plans in place at any other football club, any other football club, is surely wrong. I'm no business man, but that's how I would I imagine it to be right throughout the leagues.

 

what sort of "plan" ie objective do you "plan" for ?

 

Football is different man. Personnel change all the time, fortunes turn around completely within a few weeks [look no further than NUFC]. What is success ? Dickheads in the southern press say Keegan was a "failure" because he didn't win a trophy ? There are only 3 domestic cups, and a handful of european places, so what do you "plan" for ? All you do in football is appoint the manager and back him to the best of your ability, this is your "plan" ie backing your appointment, because when you change your manager you bring in another one with totally different ideas, judgements, backroom staff, everything, and you start all over again. And everybody wants the new Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger too. It's far more difficult and complex than just setting out a "business plan"

 

I agree, but there is a 'plan'. Even Chelsea have a plan. When (can't think of his name. The ce who left Man U to go to Stamford Bridge. There's an e in his name!!!!???) went there, he stated the plan of Chelsea becoming self sufficient in x amount of years.

 

However, any 'plan' revolves around the success of the team. Whether that be remaining in the league (whatever league a club is in), or pushing on to gain promotion/play-offs/european football/becoming champions, the success can determined by the energy, belief, dynamics, desire and guts of the board. I think we agree on this last bit, at least.

 

Kenyon ?

 

I know what you mean, but in a bank/factory/chainstore etc, whatever, you change a key figure ie the manager or the man in overall charge of the operation, and carry on, but that doesn't happen in football. The team manager will always want different backroom staff, different players, and have a different way of playing the game and assessing footballers. So you start all over again. You can't make these sort of "plans". The manager has his strategy, and this strategy goes out of the door with him when he leaves.

[Guest]

I'll reply to the crock of shit you have posted later cos I'm on my phone, but how do you feelin about freds man big Sam backing the Carroll sale?

[ChezGiven 0]

What did knuckle head say?

[Guest alex]

Ashley's decision to 'walk away' is based solely on his ability to find a buyer. Also, I can't really get my head round this division between Ashley and the club, in terms of the loans etc. you're on about. Doesn't he own the club lock, stock and barrel?

Yes, he owns the club which is a limited company. He has made personal loans to the limited company of, I think, in excess of 200M. If a buyer could be found, he would be buying the total assets and liabilities of the club, including the 200M loan from Ashley. If a buyer could not be found, there is nothing to stop Ashley putting the club into administration, and walking away having repaid himself as much of his loan as he can get his hands on (including the 35M Carrol cash).

And this is the basis for your argument we are better off with him as the owner? That the alternative to the unlikely scenario of our finding a buyer is that he can send the club into administration?

Also, surely he's £200m or so down off the deal so far. If he walks away he loses that money, no?

Not really sure what you're getting at here.

[Guest]

Speaking to the the Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast, Big Sam said: “They tried their best to resist as much as they possibly could but when it got to £35million I think that everybody has his price.

“Andy I know very, very well of course he’s a great prospect but at that price Newcastle could hardly say no. It’s a huge amount of money for someone who is a very talented boy but who hasn’t reached his potential yet.

[LeazesMag 0]

I'll reply to the crock of shit you have posted later cos I'm on my phone, but how do you feelin about freds man big Sam backing the Carroll sale?

 

just don't derail the thread again

[Happy Face 29]

Last years accounts are due soon aren't they?

 

I think they'll show that all he has done to put us on a stable financial footing is reduce the wage bill and transfer outgoings. Anyone with half a brain could have come in and taken an axe to the squad/staff as he has.

 

They'll also show crowds down, sponsorship down, advertising down, merchandise down, corporate sales down, TV revenue down, overall income down (or should I say losses up) and total debt up.

 

 

This point that keeps getting wheeled out, again by Llambias today, that he's never taken a penny out of the club. Has this ever being nailed as a fact, a lie or is it all smoke and mirrors.

 

I'm not sure but I know he has changed the terms of his loan from being repayable on sale to being repayable on demand i.e. he could now pull the plug at any moment he wanted.

 

I'm sure last years accounts showed that he'd taken out a few million....couldn't fathom why he'd do it when we still had an overdraft/debt that we're paying interest on.

 

I can't see anything in the accounts to say that, in fact his loan increased in 08/09.

 

Our loans to him were up to £112 million at one point during the year but ended at the £111 million. Either he was paid back a million or it was written off.....which I'm sure he'd be bragging about.

[ChezGiven 0]

Last years accounts are due soon aren't they?

 

I think they'll show that all he has done to put us on a stable financial footing is reduce the wage bill and transfer outgoings. Anyone with half a brain could have come in and taken an axe to the squad/staff as he has.

 

They'll also show crowds down, sponsorship down, advertising down, merchandise down, corporate sales down, TV revenue down, overall income down (or should I say losses up) and total debt up.

 

 

This point that keeps getting wheeled out, again by Llambias today, that he's never taken a penny out of the club. Has this ever being nailed as a fact, a lie or is it all smoke and mirrors.

 

I'm not sure but I know he has changed the terms of his loan from being repayable on sale to being repayable on demand i.e. he could now pull the plug at any moment he wanted.

 

 

I'm sure last years accounts showed that he'd taken out a few million....couldn't fathom why he'd do it when we still had an overdraft/debt that we're paying interest on.

 

I can't see anything in the accounts to say that, in fact his loan increased in 08/09.

 

Our loans to him were up to £112 million at one point during the year but ended at the £111 million. Either he was paid back a million or it was written off.....which I'm sure he'd be bragging about.

Rounding error?