The Fish 9103 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Jesus MF, that's awful. Condolences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 You've stated that "no crime can be proven 100%" and that Murders can be 100% proven guilty. These two statements are mutually exclusive, they cannot both be true. so which is it wolfy? Try reading Rentons post at 40, then you might understand what I've said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleeToonFan 1 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Holy crap MF! That's just awful, sorry for you and your family, can't even imagine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 39072 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Aye, cheers men. Sorry like, I went off a bit deep-end there. The point I want to make is that even after all that , I don't want to see the bloke killed by the state. That would be just as brutal. I'd love to know how many victims family's think the same way, I suspect it's more than people would expect, but I doubt the question has ever been asked of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 31 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Everytime I hear about a murder, especially that of a child, I think I'd want them dead. But its easy for me to say that having not been in that position. With more thought, I think what I'd actually want is for them to suffer and death isn't. Only their family would and as said that's not right. I think my only real grievance with the judicial system I have is I think it drags on (as lawyers fill their pockets) and many sentences feel too short. I'd genuinely like to see hard labour and work in our cities done (clean graffiti, fill pot holes, pick up dog crap etc). Surely that could save money? In some cases i think it worth training the criminals and get them a trade. So at least when they break in to your house they can fix the door when they leave Sorry to hear that btw MF. As i say it's easy for me (anyone) to say this or that should be done but until you are put in that position you never really know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9103 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Try reading Rentons post at 40, then you might understand what I've said. I've read it. You still have made two diametrically opposing statements. Either; No guilt is 100% provable or, Suspected Murderers can be proven to be 100% guilty. they cannot both be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 39072 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Wolfy is a Teesider, isn't he? Found him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 There's a lot of people in jail that simply shouldn't be in jail. Jail should be the ultimate deterrent and the last resort in most crimes. There's people in jail that are there simply because they are homeless and go and commit a crime to simply gain a bed and 3 meals a day. There are people in jail on repeat shoplifting crimes and what not but only after any amount of offences,which they simply treat as an occupational hazard and also know that they are in and out quickly with no suffering to themselves and in-fact it's probably looked on as a small holiday to them with their families taking care of anything they have on the outside having to bear the brunt of their kids or whatever. The problem is, Jails are too soft and there are too many human rights do gooders getting paid for basically nothing other than to molly coddle prisoners. Play stations, food galore, sweets, telly, own trainers and clothes, after shave and 3 quality meals on top plus a comfy enough bed , all provided to keep them happy, all in the name of human rights. Anyone wondering why this country is full of young yobs all believing they're gangsters, need look no further than a system that caters for them when they do wrong. People go on about criminals losing their liberty and that should be enough punishment are the same people that have been spoon fed and live in an area where they don't actually deal with real life crime on their doorstep. When your in jail, you lose your human rights, meaning you get the basic needs and also a basic prison issue kit to wear. If people riot because of it, then let it be known that things just get worse for those who do it...it'll soon stop the majority but as we all know, there are always some that want to fight the system which is what solitary is for. Put the less violent to work, doing whatever is beneficial to the jail and outside and base each person on their merits as to how much time off their sentence they can earn instead of jailing someone for 6 years knowing they are only gonna do about 2 and a half out of it. If you get 6 years, then it's up to the person to lessen that time by reward for various good done inside. As for murderers, they lose their right to live, so all jail is for them is a holding cell until executed. Anyone caught shoplifting should be given a 3 strikes rule with the 3rd resulting in prison for a short period and rising each time they commit further offences..all without privileges like anyone else. House burglars are given the same 3 strike rule but with a stiffer sentence for their third conviction of a few years, meaning that and rising considerably should they commit a 4th e.t.c after their release. There's many offences that can be categorised into these type of sentences and if implemented, would reduce the prison population greatly because people do not like to be without their comforts these days. Years ago, it wasn't such a big deal because most people had nothing anyway in terms of game consoles and mobile phones e.t.c. Obviously something like this wouldn't work over night but a guideline to what constitutes a prison sentence put through peoples doors plus plastered on billboards would get the message home. There's a million more things to add but in a nutshell, this would be my way of dealing with it, if I had the power to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 I've read it. You still have made two diametrically opposing statements. Either; No guilt is 100% provable or, Suspected Murderers can be proven to be 100% guilty. they cannot both be true. Try reading it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 39072 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Obviously something like this wouldn't work over night but …. Are you suggesting we let prisoners home at night? Puff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Are you suggesting we let prisoners home at night? Puff Just the one's that use BATS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9103 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Try reading it again. I don't know how much clearer I can make it. Renton has quoted you stating that guilt cannot be proven 100% AND that a murderer that has been found 100% guilty could be executed. These two statements are mutually exclusive. If no guilt can be 100% proven, then no death penalty can exist as no murderer can be proven 100% guilty. If a murderer has be proven 100% guilty, then some criminals can be proven 100% guilty It's one or the other wolfy; which one is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 39072 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 I don't know how much clearer I can make it. Renton has quoted you stating that guilt cannot be proven 100% AND that a murderer that has been found 100% guilty could be executed. These two statements are mutually exclusive. If no guilt can be 100% proven, then no death penalty can exist as no murderer can be proven 100% guilty. If a murderer has be proven 100% guilty, then some criminals can be proven 100% guilty It's one or the other wolfy; which one is it? Try reading it again but this time look at what Renton said to see how and what context I answered in. If you can't see that, I can't help you and you will just have to beat yourself up with it. If you want to expend all of your time trying to find little things to pick at then you will only get yourself into a right old tizzy lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9103 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Howay then dance master, show me the steps. Explain it to me if I'm getting it so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Howay then dance master, show me the steps. Explain it to me if I'm getting it so wrong. I'm sorry Fish. You will have to figure it out for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I'm worried about this guy's sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9103 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I'm sorry Fish. You will have to figure it out for yourself. Ahh, so because you can't explain, you won't. The last hiding place of the stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 39072 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I'm worried about this guy's sanity. Which one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 I'm worried about this guy's sanity. Are you really.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Ahh, so because you can't explain, you won't. The last hiding place of the stupid. What is there to explain?You have made your own mind up, so stick with that, I'm ok with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Interesting debate, you touch on the very subject that excludes death penalty in any civilized country. But I do see Wolfys point. Look at my countryman Anders Behring Breivik. There is no doubt whatsoever that he did it. Waste of oxygen and skin, but at the same time - by executing him you are only punishing his family. Hasnt her mother suffered enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9103 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 What is there to explain? You have made your own mind up, so stick with that, I'm ok with it. Ahh, so because you can't explain, you won't. The last hiding place of the stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Ahh, so because you can't explain, you won't. The last hiding place of the stupid. Deja vu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Especially in this time and age, there are many cases where you COULD probably with 99.9999999% certainty confirm that the accused was/is in fact the killer. Recordings etc should make it pretty much slam dunks. If you got a guy on camera, thats good enough for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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