PaddockLad 15129 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 As narrow as CTs chipolata that man You're forgetting the wingbacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1125 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I can't see any sense in us going back to 4-4-2 with the players we have or even assuming we sign a new striker or two. We just don't have any wingers of quality to get the ball into the box for them. To me we need to come up with something that makes use of Tiote, Cabaye (assuming we keep the pair of them and they get back up to their best), Sissoko and Ben Arfa whilst not leaving Cisse isolated. Some sort of 4-3-1-2 is possibly the way to go with Ben Arfa as the one. This puts a lot of pressure on Santon and Debuchy to provide width but arguably attacking is their major strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Agree with those saying the team needs to be built around HBA. From the looks of things, we're doing it to build around Cisse. Cabaye spend his entire career in a 433 as well, and when you look at the building of a 3 man centre midfield. The ideal 3 are a passer(Cabaye/Anita), a breaker(Tiote) and a carrier(Sissoko/Jonas). Basically, while I can see why Pardew is going to 4411, I think he's a bit mad for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 297 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 makes you wonder how unfit he is though, i know we were joking on here about his weight when he came back end of last season, but he still didn't look like he was knackered, and he hadn't lost pace Yup, he did look a bit bigger on the arse, but if he can still dribble and run at that speed whats the problem? If he can move that fast and be a bit heavier, all the better for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20314 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 a 4-4-1-1 could work if we sign a decent winger. ben arfa in the hole behind cisse would do nicely. tiote or sissoko alongside cabaye in the centre of midfield. cabaye just needs to be instructed not to sit so deep next season. he's wasted there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarStripes 0 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) 433 Cabaye Tiote Sisoko Remy Cisse Ben-Arfa ? Yes!Relying on Debuchy and Santon to provide width. Thats how i'd like to see us go but i dont think Pardew wants to go 433 or 4231 this season.Thing is we dont have the sqaud to set up 442...baffling. Edited July 30, 2013 by StellarStripes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarStripes 0 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) Aye maybe, but at least people are playing in their correct positions. What about - Krul Debuchy Colo Mbiwa Santon Cabaye Tiote Sissoko HBA Gouffran Cisse That looks beautiful.Swap Gouffran for either Remy or Gomis and i'd be very fuckin happy with that. The bench would be decent too. Edited July 30, 2013 by StellarStripes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm probably alone, but I still think a lot on here really overate Ben Arfa. Now before the usuals chirp up, I'm not being anti Ben-Arfa, I just think "you" attach overwhelming expectations to him. He is a wonderfully gifted individual, with great dribbling skills and capable of the odd wonder goal, but I think there is very little evidence from his time here that he will be a success playing behind the striker. It's great for a player to have all that if he can be coached to use that for the team, but what I see is normally a lot more individual play where a pass is the result of something else not being on for him. It's not fair to compare him to a world great like Beardsley, but that's what Ben-Arfa could be close to if he had the team mindset to go with skills. Lineker always knew that Beardsley would find him when playing for England where as Im sure Ben-Arfas team mates are not sure what he's going to do next. Just my thoughts anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9382 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Can you describe the qualities you want from a player operating behind the main striker, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 15129 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I spoke to HBA's English agent last summer, ex pro, and he doesnt think he should play in behind the main striker either. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 I spoke to HBA's English agent last summer, ex pro, and he doesnt think he should play in behind the main striker either. Just saying. I'm sure being an old timer you understand my Beardsley point? It's having the super quick football brain that let's you channel your skills for the best possible outcome at that moment in time be that individual or team. Sometimes you may be better with a lesser player that play to tactics than a un-chanelled genius. Not as exciting to watch of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6187 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 alreet Cryuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1125 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Ben Arfa has looked like a far more productive member of the team on right like. I would say that playing there gives him quite a bit of freedom but he also seems to link in best with the team there. I understand what other people are saying with regards to the attributes he has to play as a number 10 and he may well have played that role succesfully in France, but with us he's shown far more on the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9382 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Ben Arfa has looked like a far more productive member of the team on right like. I would say that playing there gives him quite a bit of freedom but he also seems to link in best with the team there. I understand what other people are saying with regards to the attributes he has to play as a number 10 and he may well have played that role succesfully in France, but with us he's shown far more on the right. Had far more opportunities on the right to be fair. Also to get the best from a #10 you need, imo, a far more balanced side than the first 11 Alan Pardew puts out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13921 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm sure being an old timer you understand my Beardsley point? It's having the super quick football brain that let's you channel your skills for the best possible outcome at that moment in time be that individual or team. Sometimes you may be better with a lesser player that play to tactics than a un-chanelled genius. Not as exciting to watch of course. Beardsley was a genius though & his forward partnerships were borderline telepathic. I don't think Ben Arfa is THAT good a player & I think its a high standard to judge players by. In addition is argue the role of a number 10 in a 4231 or similar is different from that of a "number 10” in a forward pair in a 442. Lineker was a poacher - in a great England team, different from our current operation. Part of Ben Arfa's appeal is that he plays for fun - a bit like Garrincha I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 15129 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Good point Fish, the games not played in a fuckin computer and you've got to take into account the squad make up and the nature of the manager. For me, theres not many sides outside the top 4/5 that have the squad and balancing players either side to play this system effectively. You can say you think HBA should play in behind a striker until you're blue in the face but its highly unlikely to happen here next season. Think you've got to be a bit more unselfish than HBA appears to be to be a success in that role. Can't say I've noted his range of passing into space for Cisse too much either. You've got to have a footballing brain, not saying he doesn't have one but he doesn't strike me as cerebal as a Beardsley,Bergkamp or Sheringham...the last of those 3 you'll note didn't have any pace and wasn't a dribbler either. He was one of the best practitioners of the art though. Tbh, there's more than one way to play it, Cantona was quite physical, Berbatov you'd barely notice during a lot of games. Thing is, Pardew is a defender by nature and I think he'd like us to play on the break more. Id leave him on the right and buy another flyer for the left, either side of Sissoko with Cisse ahead of them. Stick Cabaye and Tiote in behind them, with a back 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1125 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Had far more opportunities on the right to be fair. Also to get the best from a #10 you need, imo, a far more balanced side than the first 11 Alan Pardew puts out.Aye I was going to say that about him playing more on the right but I lost interest as I was typing. It's also a good point about the balance of the team which why it's mainly the best teams who can utilise a number 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm sure being an old timer you understand my Beardsley point? It's having the super quick football brain that let's you channel your skills for the best possible outcome at that moment in time be that individual or team. Sometimes you may be better with a lesser player that play to tactics than a un-chanelled genius. Not as exciting to watch of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13921 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 We've GOT to lose that sax solo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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