Politics

[Rayvin 6709]

I'm wondering at what point Labour are expecting things to improve for them in terms of popular support - this cannot possibly be the strategy they're going to stick to running into the next GE. All these policies and statements which seem designed to alienate young, progressive voters, how on earth is this going to benefit them? I could buy it if they were picking up votes somewhere to the right but there's no evidence that they are. It feels like the whole thing is designed to suffocate the Tories but how does that help once Reform merge/ally/flat out replace them.

[Renton 25032]

54 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

We had open borders with Europe and that helped raise the living standards in the less well of states. Surely that's the best evidence available that open borders is a good thing

An influx of healthy young workers who send money home then return when they've made some money is what happens in the majority of cases. Not to conflate economic refugees with asylum seekers whom I assume you wouldn't turn away

 

 

The EU is/was open borders as part of a Union bound by a common framework of values, beliefs, law, trade and shared competencies. It is a wonderful institution. And yes, the idea was to boost poorer nations like Poland, enriching us all ultimately as the market increased in size and value. And it worked, with Poland shortly surpassing us on GDP per capita.  But this has to be done cautiously and incrementally. The next step after the balkans would l guess be Turkey. But that won't happen in anyone's lifetime on here. Because they do not have shared values, are not fully democratic, have very dubious human rights, and do not meet the required economic conditions. After that would be Russia, aye, right.

 

We're never going to have any meaningful union with an African or Asian country, just isn't going to happen, for dozens of reasons. And anyway, taking their "healthy young workers" isn't doing those countries any favours. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting your country, whether by itself or part of Union, to be self sufficient in terms of its work requirements. The aim should be to invest in Africa so it can flourish, not rob it of its human wealth and all the attendant problems this causes. I realise as well of course that this is never happening either. 

[Renton 25032]

10 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I'm wondering at what point Labour are expecting things to improve for them in terms of popular support - this cannot possibly be the strategy they're going to stick to running into the next GE. All these policies and statements which seem designed to alienate young, progressive voters, how on earth is this going to benefit them? I could buy it if they were picking up votes somewhere to the right but there's no evidence that they are. It feels like the whole thing is designed to suffocate the Tories but how does that help once Reform merge/ally/flat out replace them.

 

Is still specifically about Bridgets comments? I read them in the Guardian and can't say I found anything to disagree on?

[Rayvin 6709]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Is still specifically about Bridgets comments? I read them in the Guardian and can't say I found anything to disagree on?

 

No, Starmer has come out droning on about trans people again but I didn't want to link it and end up in yet another back and forth about that, so I'm trying to keep it general.

[Renton 25032]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

No, Starmer has come out droning on about trans people again but I didn't want to link it and end up in yet another back and forth about that, so I'm trying to keep it general.

 

Ah, right. I'll be honest and ignore all discussion about that no matter who from. I don't think these culture war subjects, wedge issues, have any place in politics. It's a big reason politics is failing imo. 

[Rayvin 6709]

7 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Ah, right. I'll be honest and ignore all discussion about that no matter who from. I don't think these culture war subjects, wedge issues, have any place in politics. It's a big reason politics is failing imo. 

 

I agree with you ultimately but nonetheless, these are the sorts of issues he will lose support over and I'm not seeing where he gains it otherwise. The right quite literally will never vote for him.

[Gemmill 53715]

Labour trying to woo the benefit cuts rebels by pointing out that, since their u-turn, it's now ONLY 150,000 people that will be pushed into poverty by the cuts, and not 250,000. 

 

I mean fucking hell. 

[Renton 25032]

Aye, honestly this Labour party is pathetic, politically clueless.

 

[Rayvin 6709]

If they just came out and pointed the finger at Brexit, I think these conversations would be a lot easier...

[Rayvin 6709]

"Economists and analysts at Cambridge Econometrics found that, by 2035, the UK is anticipated to have three million fewer jobs, 32% lower investment, 5% lower exports and 16% lower imports, than it would have had been. The report states that the UK will be £311bn worse off by 2035 due to leaving EU."

 

Our old people did this to us. I also checked the yearly loss to the public purse and it's estimated to be about £25bn a year. How much of this shit we're currently doing wouldn't have been necessary if we weren't so stupid...

[Howmanheyman 38908]

She's practicing what she's preaching TBF....

 

"We need more babies so climb aboard, let's breed!"

[Renton 25032]

6 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

"Economists and analysts at Cambridge Econometrics found that, by 2035, the UK is anticipated to have three million fewer jobs, 32% lower investment, 5% lower exports and 16% lower imports, than it would have had been. The report states that the UK will be £311bn worse off by 2035 due to leaving EU."

 

Our old people did this to us. I also checked the yearly loss to the public purse and it's estimated to be about £25bn a year. How much of this shit we're currently doing wouldn't have been necessary if we weren't so stupid...

 

But we got our sovereignty back. Stop complaining.

[Monkeys Fist 47221]

34 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

If they just came out and pointed the finger at Brexit, I think these conversations would be a lot easier...

I really don’t understand why someone from Labour hasn’t come out and made a statement about everything people were lied to about Brexit , and who lied to them. 

And, equally, the devastating effect it’s had on our living standards. 
 

There’s nowt wrong with telling people they made a mistake due to being lied to, especially since most of the fuckwits that voted for now realise that’s the case. 
 

It’s all perfectly provable, and they could use parliamentary privilege if they were unduly worried about Farage sueing or whatever, because he’s No. 1 suspect here. 

[spongebob toonpants 4651]

14 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

I really don’t understand why someone from Labour hasn’t come out and made a statement about everything people were lied to about Brexit , and who lied to them. 

And, equally, the devastating effect it’s had on our living standards. 
 

There’s nowt wrong with telling people they made a mistake due to being lied to, especially since most of the fuckwits that voted for now realise that’s the case. 
 

It’s all perfectly provable, and they could use parliamentary privilege if they were unduly worried about Farage sueing or whatever, because he’s No. 1 suspect here. 

Until somebody does the country will remain fucked. Amongst all Starmer’s failings the refusal to tell the truth about Brexit is the most damaging and the most depressing 

I fucking despise the cowardly cunt