Politics

[ChezGiven 0]

Ok there are 26 pages but i have covered off all the arguments already.

 

1 The deficit was caused by the recession. Thats an economic factoid.

2 The economy is still stagnant and unemployment is high, so the deficit, if nothing else changes in the long run, is an issue.

3 The deficit can be solved most quickly by growing the economy. If the economy grows at 2% that pays off around 1/5th of the deficit.

4 Therefore, expansionary economic policies are the only true and long term solution to the deficit. There are two mechanisms, interest rates & money supply or govt spending & taxes.

5 Interest rates are practically zero so monetary policy wont, can not and will not solve the issue. Its called a liquidity trap.

6 The only real option which we have is to grow the economy by spending, funded through the deficit, otherwise we risk long term stagnation like Japan has experienced since 1996 when it was in the same position.

7 Every year that goes by with extremely high unemployment increases the chance that many of the long-term unemployed will never come back to the work force, and become a permanent underclass. (the so-called 'lost generation')

 

Ever stopped to wonder why the same deficit hawks in the US GOP and the Global markets were saying controlling healthcare costs would be done by death panels but now the agenda is different, cost-cutting is all the rage?

 

Why? Because its politically not economically expedient.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

It's no good just repeating the "we owe billions" mantra unless you compare it with other countries. We don't come off that bad and are a million miles away from Greece. Even mentioning them shows that you are just spouting Cameron's shit.

 

 

The fact that Labour supporters are churning out the "we're not as bad as greece" line tells you all you need to know about this sorry mess.

 

Your lot fucked up, the countrys in the shit. end of really.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Ok there are 26 pages but i have covered off all the arguments already.

 

1 The deficit was caused by the recession. Thats an economic factoid.

2 The economy is still stagnant and unemployment is high, so the deficit, if nothing else changes in the long run, is an issue.

3 The deficit can be solved most quickly by growing the economy. If the economy grows at 2% that pays off around 1/5th of the deficit.

4 Therefore, expansionary economic policies are the only true and long term solution to the deficit. There are two mechanisms, interest rates & money supply or govt spending & taxes.

5 Interest rates are practically zero so monetary policy wont, can not and will not solve the issue. Its called a liquidity trap.

6 The only real option which we have is to grow the economy by spending, funded through the deficit, otherwise we risk long term stagnation like Japan has experienced since 1996 when it was in the same position.

7 Every year that goes by with extremely high unemployment increases the chance that many of the long-term unemployed will never come back to the work force, and become a permanent underclass. (the so-called 'lost generation')

 

Ever stopped to wonder why the same deficit hawks in the US GOP and the Global markets were saying controlling healthcare costs would be done by death panels but now the agenda is different, cost-cutting is all the rage?

 

Why? Because its politically not economically expedient.

 

 

Two points.

 

The deficit was caused by the recession. Thats an economic factoid

 

The deficit has been there since 2003, we only entered recession in 2009....Factoid

 

Why is it that every political party in the UK is in favour of cuts, yet you would have us believe that you are right and we have to spend not cut?

[ChezGiven 0]

Why? Because it allows markets to influence the structure of the economies and make them more aligned to their needs. Free markets, no government etc, remember?

[ChezGiven 0]

We've done the figures already too CT, they show that the deficit went from normal levels to agenda-inducing after the financial crisis.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Why? Because it allows markets to influence the structure of the economies and make them more aligned to their needs. Free markets, no government etc, remember?

 

 

My point is why you think we should believe all the political parties are wrong......and your right

[Christmas Tree 3997]

We've done the figures already too CT, they show that the deficit went from normal levels to agenda-inducing after the financial crisis.

 

 

That "factoid" statement I agree with

[ChezGiven 0]

Why? Because it allows markets to influence the structure of the economies and make them more aligned to their needs. Free markets, no government etc, remember?

 

 

My point is why you think we should believe all the political parties are wrong......and your right

 

I've made my points. You seem to agree with most of them.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Why? Because it allows markets to influence the structure of the economies and make them more aligned to their needs. Free markets, no government etc, remember?

 

 

My point is why you think we should believe all the political parties are wrong......and your right

 

I've made my points. You seem to agree with most of them.

 

[peasepud 59]

Well todays the day.

 

Big cuts expected in the services that most need them, I reckon hospitals will be untouched however emergency services pay could be cut. Things such as elderly care, disabled support, meals on wheels etc will all be slashed I reckon.

 

As for those of us in the Public sector it could be a massive day. Talk of 5% pay cuts plus an increase from 1.5 to 7% in the Pension contributions stacks up to a 10.5% drop in wages. For your average Admin staff thats going to be a drop of about £2.5k per year or £200 per month. All of that is before the austerity measures that everyone else has to go through also kick in so any increase in tax, NI, VAT, petrol etc could easily see many civil servants being £300 per month worse off. To many of us thats the difference between supporting your family or not.

 

Thousands will leave the Public sector and move to jobs in the private, that might sound like a win/win, reduce the costs of the Public sector even further without making any payouts but theres a downside of course, if they are entering the job market then there are less jobs available for others and therefore the dole queue increases. Thats on top of the reduction in service that an exodus will bring.

 

For everyone else, expect to see a number of stealth taxes being introduced in NI and PAYE as well as the obvious increases, yet at the same time the possibility of Labours 50% highest tax band (those earning £150k or more) being cut to 45%, no surprises there then from a Conservative government. The inclusion of NIC Holiday is another red-herring which, if as popular as last time it was introduced (1998?) will result in a deficit of millions between what it achieved and the cost to implement.

[NJS 3986]

It's no good just repeating the "we owe billions" mantra unless you compare it with other countries. We don't come off that bad and are a million miles away from Greece. Even mentioning them shows that you are just spouting Cameron's shit.

 

 

The fact that Labour supporters are churning out the "we're not as bad as greece" line tells you all you need to know about this sorry mess.

 

Your lot fucked up, the countrys in the shit. end of really.

 

You (and KCG) keep mentioning Greece.

 

Why not look at the figures for Germany, the US and Japan which I'm sure someone posted somewhere?

 

Did/do all those countries have new Labour governments as well?

[peasepud 59]

Britons expect the economy to deteriorate over the next year but are optimistic that the coalition government's policies will pay off eventually, a poll showed on Monday.

 

The Reuters/Ipsos MORI poll, released on the eve of what is expected to be the toughest budget in a generation, also showed Prime Minister David Cameron enjoyed an approval rating of 57 percent after just over a month in the job.

 

Forty percent of those surveyed thought that the economic condition of the country would get worse over the next year, while only 35 percent saw an improvement.

 

However, 61 percent of those surveyed believed the new government's policies would improve the state of Britain's economy in the long term, against 29 percent who disagreed.

 

Three in five people agreed that the government was being honest about the state of public finances, a sign that the government's warnings of hard times to come have hit home.

 

And the other 10%?

[Christmas Tree 3997]

That will be the useless 10% in most surveys who "don't know".

[ewerk 26471]

That will be the useless 10% in most surveys who "don't know".

 

And you reckon that most of those who answered one way or the other fully understood the issues?

[Christmas Tree 3997]

That will be the useless 10% in most surveys who "don't know".

 

And you reckon that most of those who answered one way or the other fully understood the issues?

 

 

Do they ever.

[Renton 17828]

Well todays the day.

 

Big cuts expected in the services that most need them, I reckon hospitals will be untouched however emergency services pay could be cut. Things such as elderly care, disabled support, meals on wheels etc will all be slashed I reckon.

 

As for those of us in the Public sector it could be a massive day. Talk of 5% pay cuts plus an increase from 1.5 to 7% in the Pension contributions stacks up to a 10.5% drop in wages. For your average Admin staff thats going to be a drop of about £2.5k per year or £200 per month. All of that is before the austerity measures that everyone else has to go through also kick in so any increase in tax, NI, VAT, petrol etc could easily see many civil servants being £300 per month worse off. To many of us thats the difference between supporting your family or not.

 

Thousands will leave the Public sector and move to jobs in the private, that might sound like a win/win, reduce the costs of the Public sector even further without making any payouts but theres a downside of course, if they are entering the job market then there are less jobs available for others and therefore the dole queue increases. Thats on top of the reduction in service that an exodus will bring.

 

For everyone else, expect to see a number of stealth taxes being introduced in NI and PAYE as well as the obvious increases, yet at the same time the possibility of Labours 50% highest tax band (those earning £150k or more) being cut to 45%, no surprises there then from a Conservative government. The inclusion of NIC Holiday is another red-herring which, if as popular as last time it was introduced (1998?) will result in a deficit of millions between what it achieved and the cost to implement.

 

Depressing stuff Mr Pud.

 

The problem for me, and many others I suspect, is the lack of opportunity in the North East both in the public sector, but especially in the the private sector. If I wanted to get a suitable job in the latter I'd have to move to some god forsaken hole like Wellwyn Garden city, but even jobs there are in short supply during a recession. The North East will be fucked over by the tories yet again, of this can there really be any doubt?

[Renton 17828]

That will be the useless 10% in most surveys who "don't know".

 

And you reckon that most of those who answered one way or the other fully understood the issues?

 

 

Do they ever.

 

Then why post it?

[NJS 3986]

Depressing stuff Mr Pud.

 

The problem for me, and many others I suspect, is the lack of opportunity in the North East both in the public sector, but especially in the the private sector. If I wanted to get a suitable job in the latter I'd have to move to some god forsaken hole like Wellwyn Garden city, but even jobs there are in short supply during a recession. The North East will be fucked over by the tories yet again, of this can there really be any doubt?

 

I caught a Tory bitch on BBC breakfast yesterday blithely stating that people in the public sector who lose their jobs will be okay as the private sector will step up to the plate.

 

The BBC appeaser obviously didn't have the guts to say "so why aren't the private sector creating jobs now you stupid twat?"

[Christmas Tree 3997]

That will be the useless 10% in most surveys who "don't know".

 

And you reckon that most of those who answered one way or the other fully understood the issues?

 

 

Do they ever.

 

Then why post it?

 

 

Becuase its a current mori opinion poll!!!

 

Thats like saying "why have an election"....

[ChezGiven 0]

Guardian reckons Cable has secured lots of 'fairness' in the emergency budget, basic allowance up to 10k (offsetting pensions contributions) and that the rich wont get this allowance and may have their thresholds lowered. Taking 850,000 of the lowest paid out of income tax apparently.

[ChezGiven 0]

VAT going up though, which affects the poor disproportionately. I have to say if the Cable elements are carried through, it will be much better than i feared.

[ewerk 26471]

The VAT increase is only a rumour isn't it? And the personal allowance is only increasing 1k.

[ChezGiven 0]

The VAT increase is only a rumour isn't it? And the personal allowance is only increasing 1k.

 

I thought it was all rumour at this point?

[Christmas Tree 3997]

The VAT increase is only a rumour isn't it? And the personal allowance is only increasing 1k.

 

 

Would have thought this will be a cert upto 20%

[ewerk 26471]

The VAT increase is only a rumour isn't it? And the personal allowance is only increasing 1k.

 

I thought it was all rumour at this point?

 

Certain bits seem to have been leaked, such as the increase in the PA.