Minutes from the latest fans' forum

[Tooj 17]

http://www.nufc.co.uk/page/Fans/FansForum/0,,10278~3608153,00.html

[Rayvin 4964]

I think that reinforces everything we already knew to be honest. They're being quite clear about prioritising the league. I wonder if it might not be worth asking about longer term strategy though, all the questions are focused on the immediate present and I'd be keen to hear what the answer would be if someone were to say, 'ok, we accept that the plan for this season is 10th - but what about next season, and the season after. What are we building up for?'

 

EDIT - I'm not saying that the answer wouldn't be 'Nothing', but it'd force them to say it at least.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Rayvin

[Monkeys Fist 39161]

They covered their arse by stating 10th was a "minimum target".

You'd get the same answer, " politely" reiterated.

[Rayvin 4964]

Yeah it could be evaded I suppose. 'Next year's targets will based heavily influenced by this year's performance, and so it would not be appropriate to comment on it at the present time'.

[Christmas Tree 4003]

A statement on behalf of Newcastle United and Sunderland, regarding the forthcoming Tyne-Wear derby

 

Newcastle United and Sunderland AFC are surprised and disappointed with the statement issued yesterday by Northumbria Police in which the force claims that the police cannot direct changes to kick-off times for the clubs' fixtures , referring in particular to the derby games.

 

Over a number of years both clubs have made repeated representations to Northumbria Police to try and reach agreement over kick-off times to enable a traditional 3pm kick-off, or later, to enable broadcasters to give the game consideration in the majority of their time slots for live coverage.

 

Police forces up and down the country have been able to police high-profile derby matches for years, including most recently the first Welsh derby in the Premier League, Cardiff v Swansea, on Sunday 3rd November at 4pm, Arsenal v Tottenham at 5.15pm on Saturday 4th January, and Manchester City v Manchester United on Sunday 22nd September at 4pm.

 

In recent years, Northumbria Police have rejected every request made by the clubs for later kick-off slots, including Saturday 5.30pm, Sunday 4pm and Monday 8pm.

 

Both clubs have evidence in the form of considerable written correspondence between Northumbria Police, the Premier League and the clubs, which contradicts their statement of yesterday.

 

Indeed that correspondence has stated that Northumbria Police would not be prepared to police the evening fixtures requested previously, as well as their confirmation to the Premier League in writing in January 2013 that the force would not support derby matches with kick-off times later than 1.30pm.

 

For Northumbria Police therefore to issue a statement stating that they do not direct changes to kick-off times is quite frankly false and absurd - and conflicts with the respectful and responsible manner in which both Newcastle United and Sunderland AFC have engaged with the police over many years with regard to the derby fixture.

 

In light of Northumbria Police's latest statement, Newcastle United and Sunderland AFC will now inform the Premier League that all future fixtures between the two clubs will be available for kick-off times to suit the clubs, the League and their broadcast partners, if applicable, and will expect Northumbria Police to police these games, especially given the considerable costs both clubs incur for such special police services.

 

After considering the police position, Sunderland AFC will be withdrawing the terms and conditions of ticket sales, which previously stated that all supporters must attend the game on official transport. The arrangements to provide complimentary buses and supporters branch transport will remain in place and Sunderland AFC advises fans that this is the safest method of travel to St James' Park.

[Rayvin 4964]

Er...that is the pettiest response to a legitimate safety issue I've ever seen.

 

So Northumbria police released a statement saying they aren't responsible for directing when the games will kick off. They aren't responsible. All they appear to have said is that they won't police later games; while I accept that this may mean that they indirectly control the kick offs, the club has clearly always been able to choose a different slot. As they just have.

 

The club (and Sunderland, who we are apparently getting into bed with on this) has found an opportunity to squeeze a bit more money out of the game by getting it set up for peak broadcasting times because of an admittedly poorly worded statement by Northumbria Police. I suspect that they've made no effort to go back to Northumbria Police for clarification, and just jumped on this as an opportunity to bypass 'irrelevant safety concerns'.

 

With all responsibility passed back to the police who they 'expect' to just deal with it.

 

Am I being overly cynical about this? I accept I may be overlooking something.

 

EDIT - On reflection, I accept that the above view doesn't really consider supporter interests. Would we benefit from a later time?

Edited January 7, 2014 by Rayvin

[NJS 4002]

Don't agree Rayvin - the coppers have tried to wheedle out of this but everyone knows all of the kick-off times have been completely down to them - they've only been televised in recent years as an afterthought once the police have named their time.

 

We like to talk up the derby but the point that other forces cope with high pressure games is completely damning imo.

 

You should also read the FSF anti-bubble statment about how only 6 of the 96 arrested in April had been to the game so this was punishment for completely innocent fans.

[Rayvin 4964]

Don't agree Rayvin - the coppers have tried to wheedle out of this but everyone knows all of the kick-off times have been completely down to them - they've only been televised in recent years as an afterthought once the police have named their time.

 

We like to talk up the derby but the point that other forces cope with high pressure games is completely damning imo.

 

You should also read the FSF anti-bubble statment about how only 6 of the 96 arrested in April had been to the game so this was punishment for completely innocent fans.

 

Fair enough - to be honest, the more I thought about it, the more I think I shot out of the blocks because of the fan meeting notes.

 

My default position is to assume the club is screwing us somehow.

[ewerk 26793]

I'm pretty sure that certain levels of policing are required to maintain the stadium's safety certificate so we have to do what they say.

[NJS 4002]

My default position is to assume the club is screwing us somehow.

Usually correct but they sometimes almost acidentally get things right.

 

There may indeed be an undercurrent of money-driven self-interest here but I'd combine it with the charging press thing as a sign that he doesn't like people geting something for nowt or indeed paying for something which isn't good service (policing in this case) - I think it illustrates that most rich people are tight twats at heart.

Edited January 7, 2014 by NJS

[desmondTUTU 0]

The kick off time should be down to Sky or BT not the police. It is Sky and BT who pay the money for the games.

 

If the Police cannot deal with the event they should look at either retraining officers or employing more people.

 

EDIT: Also, if any supporter wishes to walk, train, bike, taxi, boat, fly or hop to the game they are entitled to do so.

Edited January 7, 2014 by desmondTUTU

[Rayvin 4964]

Usually correct but they sometimes almost acidentally get things right.

 

There may indeed be an undercurrent of money-driven self-interest here but I'd combine it with the charging press thing as a sign that he doesn't like people geting something for nowt or indeed paying for something which isn't good service (policing in this case) - I think it illustrates that most rich people are tight twats at heart.

 

Yeah that makes sense. In fact I'd agree entirely, with the added point that even with this being the case, the club is still washing its hands concerning the issue of supporter safety - which bothers me, even if they're essentially correct that it's the police's problem. In my minds eye I'm just imagining Mike Ashley weighing up supporter violence against a few extra quid...

[PaddockLad 14892]

The Saturday 1730 spot is still available on the 1st of Feb....in light of all this is it beyond the realms of possibility?..... Spurs v Arsenal was teatime at the weekend but those fuckers get on the same buses to go up Tottenham High Road from Seven Sisters....us v the mackems is a lot, lot different to that iyam...

[NJS 4002]

EDIT: Also, if any supporter wishes to walk, train, bike, taxi, boat, fly or hop to the game they are entitled to do so.

I remember in the run up to the very first game at the SOS one of my mates suggesting we hire a fuck off stretch limo to get there - looking back its a small regret we didn't.

[Gemmill 35460]

The match should be played as early in the day as possible. You only need to check in on the forums of either club, where you've got empty headed morons bragging about starting drinking at 7am for a half 12 kick off, to see that Northumbria Police know their customers.

[NJS 4002]

Yeah that makes sense. In fact I'd agree entirely, with the added point that even with this being the case, the club is still washing its hands concerning the issue of supporter safety - which bothers me, even if they're essentially correct that it's the police's problem. In my minds eye I'm just imagining Mike Ashley weighing up supporter violence against a few extra quid...

I think "washing their hands" is a bit of a stretch - at the end of the day the club(s) shouldn't be responsible for how fans get to the game - in fact neither should the police. Once they get to the stadium or its surrounding then its down to the club or police biut not beforehand imo.

[PaddockLad 14892]

I remember in the run up to the very first game at the SOS one of my mates suggesting we hire a fuck off stretch limo to get there - looking back its a small regret we didn't.

 

We, for geographical reasons, almost always drive straight to the hospital in Sunderland, park up and walk straight to our turnstiles...tbf we're not in the habit of wearing colours on these little trips to Mordor, butr still...a Mag mate usually meets us outside the turnstiles having got the early bus from Birtley and nipped into town for a few pints on his todd

[Rayvin 4964]

I think "washing their hands" is a bit of a stretch - at the end of the day the club(s) shouldn't be responsible for how fans get to the game - in fact neither should the police. Once they get to the stadium or its surrounding then its down to the club or police biut not beforehand imo.

 

Transport is one thing - I have to say I don't have much of an opinion on that really, but I'm sure official travel is there for a reason. I'd agree that people should be responsible for ensuring they arrive safely. Gemmill's point is a good one though, and it just feels like the club is looking the other way in terms of safety considerations, even if it doesn't really have a responsibility.

 

And my objection to that essentially boils down to Mike Ashley weighing up how many hospitalised supporters are worth the prime time viewing rights fees for the match.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Rayvin

[JaMoUsE 0]

Woahh Gemill. Totally disagree, I love going to the pub early doors getting some breakfast and soaking up the atmosphere. In reality the coppers are doing walkrounds in bars by 8am and drink is limited to food orders til 10. I kno ppl who get up at 5am and stay drinking in the house. If ko was 3 or 530 they would get up later and just start drinking the same amount of hours b4 ko anyway. Say 9 or 10 for a 3pm ko.

[NJS 4002]

We, for geographical reasons, almost always drive straight to the hospital in Sunderland, park up and walk straight to our turnstiles...tbf we're not in the habit of wearing colours on these little trips to Mordor, butr still...a Mag mate usually meets us outside the turnstiles having got the early bus from Birtley and nipped into town for a few pints on his todd

Went on the supplied buses a couple of times and by car as well - last time I went with all the daft lads via attempted train which turned into going by Metro which is actually worse than the club buses - it took about 2.5 hours to get back to the town because of the queues.

[NJS 4002]

Transport is one thing - I have to say I don't have much of an opinion on that really, but I'm sure official travel is there for a reason. I'd agree that people should be responsible for ensuring they arrive safely. Gemmill's point is a good one though, and it just feels like the club is looking the other way in terms of safety considerations, even if it doesn't really have a responsibility.

 

And my objection to that essentially boils down to Mike Ashley weighing up how many hospitalised supporters are worth the prime time viewing rights fees for the match.

Without being passe I don't recall too many injuries serious or otherwise at many derbies and that's going back almost 40 years since my first - a bit of argy-bargy and sometimes quite serious trouble yes - hospital jobs no.

[Gemmill 35460]

Woahh Gemill. Totally disagree, I love going to the pub early doors getting some breakfast and soaking up the atmosphere. In reality the coppers are doing walkrounds in bars by 8am and drink is limited to food orders til 10. I kno ppl who get up at 5am and stay drinking in the house. If ko was 3 or 530 they would get up later and just start drinking the same amount of hours before ko anyway. Say 9 or 10 for a 3pm ko.

If you're getting up at 5am to drink, you're a fucking idiot. It's as simple as that. I can't fathom that mentality at all.

[Rayvin 4964]

Without being passe I don't recall too many injuries serious or otherwise at many derbies and that's going back almost 40 years since my first - a bit of argy-bargy and sometimes quite serious trouble yes - hospital jobs no.

 

Right but then they were heavily controlled by the police weren't they? Which we're saying may not happen this time given the current position of both sides.

 

I'm not saying anything will happen, but somewhere down the line someone at the club has considered it and thought the commercials outweighed the risk.

[PaddockLad 14892]

Went on the supplied buses a couple of times and by car as well - last time I went with all the daft lads via attempted train which turned into going by Metro which is actually worse than the club buses - it took about 2.5 hours to get back to the town because of the queues.

 

Myself and Howmanheyman went by Metro in October, canny enough going after a few scoops in town but as you say after getting a right fucking twatting from them the journey home was long and fuckin miserable.

[desmondTUTU 0]

The match should be played as early in the day as possible. You only need to check in on the forums of either club, where you've got empty headed morons bragging about starting drinking at 7am for a half 12 kick off, to see that Northumbria Police know their customers.

 

Then the police should deal with the empty headed morons not every person who wants to drink on derby day early. They are not one and the same.