Pardew Loving Cathword I am

[ChezGiven 0]

I understand your confusion Fish, it's normal. You hold both opinions so of course in your view it's reasonable. It isn't though. Ashley has not equipped Pardew with a squad that can compete with the top 6. He equipped him with a squad that can compete with the middle tranche of the league. Meaning he could fluke a good finish or end up near the relegation spots, depending on the vagaries of the season. Ashley has invested less than any other club outside of some of the newly promoted clubs. He got rid of our 3 best players last season. Pardew's performance as a manager has been undermined massively by Ashley. So aye, he could have done better but if you can't work out that criticising the owner is an automatic giving of slack to the manager, then you are suffering from a form of dissonance. Dummett, Alnwick, Williamson, Haidara, Rivière, Armstrong, Tiote even. Not top 8 players (as of today). All involved today.

 

The way you were talking earlier in the thread it would appear you think our squad is capable of challenging the top 6, rather than mixing it in the mediocre second group of clubs. We should be of course but we don't have the players to do so. If you're not in that top group you are anywhere from 7 to bottom 4.

[The Fish 9086]

I'm fully aware that Pardew is hampered by Ashley, however that hampering isn't enough to excuse the shit performances. A better manager would not have capitulated quite so spectacularly even if they had lost their midfield maestro. That is not an unreasonable thing to say, I'm not confused when I say this.

 

I've not said Pardew is solely to blame for our mid-table finishes, I'm fairly certain I've always pointed the finger at Ashley for our stagnation. But when you see people say that Pardew has done as well as anyone (even in our strata of football) could under Ashley, well that's just nonsense.

 

Was Koeman out of our league before he took the reins at Southampton? Was Pochettino? Martinez? So there's a suggestion there are managers who Newcastle could attract, who aren't in control of the comings and goings at their club and who play more entertaining & more successful football than Alan Pardew.

 

So surely it's reasonable to say that Alan Pardew didn't do as well at Newcastle United as other manager could, even under Ashley's restrictions?

 

 

Also, just I be clear I do think this squad should be aiming for a Europa spot and while today's team was poor, the fully fit 1st squad is much, much better.

 

Krul, Janmaat, Colo, Santon, Sissoko, are all class, Cabella &De Jong may be, Perez looks to be and Aarons... Who knows.

 

We've a good squad with some average players and some top players, much like Southampton, Spurs, Everton, who you'd expect to be gunning for that Europa spot. The difference was that our manager couldn't get the best out of our best players. He couldn't play Ba & Cisse together so forced one wide where neither was effective, He got rid of Mbiwa who's now looking every bit the CL centre back. Christ he was playing Sissoko wide right until forced to push him central and look at the entirely unsurprising upturn in form that lad's had

[ChezGiven 0]

Koeman and Martinez have both got better squads than Pardew had. Koeman also has the chance to invest £50m on his own players in the summer to fit his style.

 

We've got some good players and an average squad. Pardew's performance with that average squad is average when you account for the Ashley effect.

[The Fish 9086]

Just so I'm clear. Pardew didn't under perform because... Ashley?

[ChezGiven 0]

The intense criticism of Pardew is not completely consistent with the established view that Ashely only equips the club with a squad capable of just surviving in the premier league and no more.

 

I think that's about as clear as I can make it.

[The Fish 9086]

I've never said that the squad that Ashley provides is capable of survival and no more.

 

I've consistently said that Pardew has underachieved with the squads he has had. Koeman and Martinez would imo done better with these squads.

 

My appraisal is about the football played as well as league position mind.

[ChezGiven 0]

Last season when Remy and Cabaye were starting every week, we were challenging the top 6. Cabaye gets sold and Remy gets injured and plays another 4 or 5 games where he isn't jnterested. The drop off in our performances was from top 7 to bottom 3 which is exactly the same fall Rodgers has experienced at Liverpool without Suarez and Sturridge. Except for us we didn't get the money from Cabaye to re-invest whereas Rodgers did. The argument that losing Cabaye should not have led to a massive decline in performance has been well and truly destroyed by Liverpool's relative decline this season. One player IS that important.

 

I don't see the first half of last season as under-achieving and the second half, yes agreed but with multiple caveats.

[NJS 3989]

Last season when Remy and Cabaye were starting every week, we were challenging the top 6. Cabaye gets sold and Remy gets injured and plays another 4 or 5 games where he isn't jnterested. The drop off in our performances was from top 7 to bottom 3 which is exactly the same fall Rodgers has experienced at Liverpool without Suarez and Sturridge. Except for us we didn't get the money from Cabaye to re-invest whereas Rodgers did. The argument that losing Cabaye should not have led to a massive decline in performance has been well and truly destroyed by Liverpool's relative decline this season. One player IS that important.

 

I don't see the first half of last season as under-achieving and the second half, yes agreed but with multiple caveats.

Small point but i think the money from cabaye and debuchy does just about cover the summer spending.

[TheGoslingBeast 0]

You can say all you want about what negative psychological inflictions our club has had through these years because of Ashley, but that doesn't defend why Pardew sets a decent team up to play shit football every week, knowing well it would cause some absolute record breaking trashings.

[The Fish 9086]

Happy to agree that losing Cabaye would have a big impact. But just as Liverpool's downturn in form is as much to do with horrific 'keeping & defending, our downturn was more than just losing Cabaye.

 

Man Utd have lost Ferdinand and Vidic leaving them with an awful defensive back line, with Van Gaal forced to play Carrick as an emergency centre back! They're evidence that losing key players doesn't lead to a massive decline if you alter tactics to get the best from whatever remains.

 

I guess I see Ashley as a millstone, but Pardew as too weak to bear it. I'm not going to absolve him of his shocking record in the cups (not just early exits but poor performances bar City), shocking performances in the derbies, and shocking behaviour as a representative of the club we love, just because of Mike Ashley.

 

Palace will unmask Pardew as the fraud he is.

[BLACKANDWHITEGEORDIE 0]

Fans go on about Ashley not spending money. They say he sells expensive and buys cheap. Since he bought the club he has sold only 3 players for big fees, Carroll, Cabaye and Debuchy. Can anyone say they have been a huge success at their new clubs? This season he spent £35.4 million on Perez, De Jong, Cabella, Riviere, Janmaat, Darlow and Lascelles. For whatever reason we have had an unprecedented number of injuries . Is that the fault of Ashley or Pardew's training or lack of, methods. How many EPL clubs are playing their 3rd choice keeper? We have a 1st choice who has problems kicking the ball accurately, a reserve who is overweight and a 3rd who wouldn't get a game for Gateshead, all of course led by a goalkeeping coach who would cause an earthquake if he tried to dive for a shot. Pardew seemed he wanted to pacify fans by playing Geordies no matter whether they were ready or not. Dumbwit is an average CB and a lousy LB, Armstrong should be in panto playing one of the 7 dwarves and Sammy has breathing problems. Gouffran is well past his sell by date and Cabella will never get used to the physical side of the EPL if he is a permanent substitute. Colo must be sick to death of Willo passing the ball sideways across the field to him because Willo is so scared of misplacing a pass if he tried to make a forward pass. Who do the fans want to replace Pardew? Bruce, Sherwood, Hoddle, Clarke, Curbishley. I believe they are too 'old school'. There is a German manager who is taking a year out of football. He has managed Mainz for 5 years and is a highly respected , innovative Manager who is known to bring on young players who cost the club very little. He speaks perfect English. His name is Thomas Tuchel, 41 and he will be available from next season. He has no say in signings. Sounds perfect for Ashley.

[BLACKANDWHITEGEORDIE 0]

Last season when Remy and Cabaye were starting every week, we were challenging the top 6. Cabaye gets sold and Remy gets injured and plays another 4 or 5 games where he isn't jnterested. The drop off in our performances was from top 7 to bottom 3 which is exactly the same fall Rodgers has experienced at Liverpool without Suarez and Sturridge. Except for us we didn't get the money from Cabaye to re-invest whereas Rodgers did. The argument that losing Cabaye should not have led to a massive decline in performance has been well and truly destroyed by Liverpool's relative decline this season. One player IS that important.

 

I don't see the first half of last season as under-achieving and the second half, yes agreed but with multiple caveats.

Are you seriously trying to compare Cabaye with Suarez? Cabaye has only made 26 apps. since January 2014. In Liverpool's case it was 2 players not 1.

[ewerk 26669]

Fans go on about Ashley not spending money. They say he sells expensive and buys cheap. Since he bought the club he has sold only 3 players for big fees, Carroll, Cabaye and Debuchy. Can anyone say they have been a huge success at their new clubs? This season he spent £35.4 million on Perez, De Jong, Cabella, Riviere, Janmaat, Darlow and Lascelles. For whatever reason we have had an unprecedented number of injuries . Is that the fault of Ashley or Pardew's training or lack of, methods.

 

Last season we had a net spend of £6 million, for a Premier League club with a very healthy wage bill that is ridiculous. We already had a weak squad so what did we do? We signed nine players while eleven left. Our injury list is not unprecedented. In fact it is pretty much par for the course under Pardew's management. So is it Ashley's or Pardew's fault? Probably both.

[ChezGiven 0]

Are you seriously trying to compare Cabaye with Suarez? Cabaye has only made 26 apps. since January 2014. In Liverpool's case it was 2 players not 1.

Yes. In terms of their relative impact. I also included Remy in what I was saying to make the comparison more complete.

[ChezGiven 0]

The Man U comparison is nonsense. The brunt of the impact of Vidic and Ferdinand no longer being any good was borne by the team under Ferguson's last season and then under Moyes.