ewerk 26345 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 One of us is looking at different periods. In Summer 12/13 we got £5.5m for Best and Foster and we spent £8m on Anita, Good and Bigirimana In January we got £7m for Ba but spent almost £18m on Debuchy, Mbiwa, Gouffran, Haidara and Sissoko. A £13m net spend for the season. http://www.nufc.com/2014-15html/transfers-pardew.html But in 13/14 we basically sold Cabaye and that was it. Looking at periods in isolation you can paint a picture of player trading being massively profitable, but in the summer just gone, Ashley's total cumulative player trading after 8 years showed just over £3m profit. His criteria is clearly that the club can spend what it earns. Just not necessarily as soon as it's in the coffers. I'm pretty sure we're both talking about the same season. In 12/13 the club posted a £10m accounting profit after signing just one senior player in the summer. The following purchases in January were as a result of our precarious league position. Now football clubs are not the most difficult to budget. For a club like ours you know what your sponsorship is going to generate, you can be fairly sure that you're going to average just over 50,000 a season for every home game and you can assume that the TV and league prize money is going to be no less than 14th. The club approached that summer with the aim of not spending what it knew we were going to generate and with the hope of turning a significant profit. The season after that profit the club knew that TV revenue was going to increase significantly and we were on course to record an even bigger profit. Did the club use this knowledge to kick on and invest in the playing staff? No. One loan signing and a kid was the height of it. It's very easy to say that the club can spend what it can afford when it's making losses but for the past two years we've seen the club's finances performing strongly and still we have shown zero ambition in the transfer market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The lack of ambition has come in not buying proven quality but gambling on potential which leaves gaps. Like I said in my twat list. It's where the money has been spent, not the amount. £25m on De Jong, Riviere and Cabella for little return, could have got lukaku. Easy in hindsight like. But the profits posted previously have been spent, as will the profits posted in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 It's a mix. Partly he is tight with the money and secondly we've spent poorly as HF states on potential rather than proven quality. This summer will tell...Cause we need 5 quality players...I think we'll get 2 and some kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I reckon we'll see a lot of new faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26345 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) The lack of ambition has come in not buying proven quality but gambling on potential which leaves gaps. Like I said in my twat list. It's where the money has been spent, not the amount. £25m on De Jong, Riviere and Cabella for little return, could have got lukaku. Easy in hindsight like. But the profits posted previously have been spent, as will the profits posted in future. We followed up a £10m club profit in 12/13 with a £19m net gain in transfers the following season. I'm failing to see how that is spending the profits? A possible £50m profit in 13/14 was followed with a £18m net spend in 14/15 (£7m of which was unavailable to play for us during the season). Again, that is not spending the profits. Edited March 20, 2015 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 If we post a profit of £50m and spend all of it I doubt it would turn this squad into anything special. We need a £20m striker and another £10m one. We need a good £20m of centrebacks and then we need at least one decent winger (more if Aarons doesn't start making some impact). We then need to add to the squad. There's not enough in £50m to do that imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 If we post a profit of £50m and spend all of it I doubt it would turn this squad into anything special. We need a £20m striker and another £10m one. We need a good £20m of centrebacks and then we need at least one decent winger (more if Aarons doesn't start making some impact). We then need to add to the squad. There's not enough in £50m to do that imo. I don't necessarily disagree, but we've shown, time & again you can buy quality for little outlay. Mbiwa was £6.7 and I'd argue that he's good enough for a top half team, so 3 centre backs of his standard would vastly improve our defence Ba & Cisse were less than £20m for the pair and would have been a good pair if we only had the coach that could use them properly. I honestly don't give a fuck if our spending isn't a huge amount, as long as the coaching staff is overhauled and the key areas are properly addressed. If, for example, we signed some young defender on a free who shows his quality, nobody will moan that we didn't splash the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12456 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I honestly don't give a fuck if our spending isn't a huge amount, as long as the coaching staff is overhauled and the key areas are properly addressed. If, for example, we signed some young defender on a free who shows his quality, nobody will moan that we didn't splash the cash. That about sums up my feelings towards it as well. I'd be happy with a proper well stocked squad, with competition for places from lower quality/youth players. Our squad is a fucking joke and has been for a while tbh, the season we managed 5th with a fairly thin squad and all they brought in was Vernon fucking Anita was the start of it. We were thin at the back before they let Mbiwa and Santon leave, everyone could see that tbh and I can't see how much lower the Santon fee would have been with 6 month less on his contract anyway. I'd just really like us to bring in a talented coaching staff, it would be better for the fans and for Ashley as he'd get more for the players if they shone because at the moment pretty much all of them are decreasing in value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 If we could sign a coach who is liked by the fans and plays football that we enjoy, I'm sure the fans would tolerate 8-14th finishes and maybe even take pride in our club again instead of it being a fucking embarrassment. I honestly feel like we're the "And finally" news story every time I turn Sky Sports on. The day dream is Remi Garde + staff comes in as soon as he's available/end of the season. We sign 7-10 players for a variety of roles and at a variety of standards. A centre back or two, a proper forward, a quality central midfielder. We play some good football, get to a 1/4 final and finish 8th. That's it. That's the limit of my day-dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I don't necessarily disagree, but we've shown, time & again you can buy quality for little outlay. Mbiwa was £6.7 and I'd argue that he's good enough for a top half team, so 3 centre backs of his standard would vastly improve our defence Ba & Cisse were less than £20m for the pair and would have been a good pair if we only had the coach that could use them properly. I honestly don't give a fuck if our spending isn't a huge amount, as long as the coaching staff is overhauled and the key areas are properly addressed. If, for example, we signed some young defender on a free who shows his quality, nobody will moan that we didn't splash the cash. Most of those occassions where we've really scored in terms of bringing in quality cheap (Cabaye, Ba, Sissoko) have been when there has been clauses in their contracts or their contracts have been running down. Obviously I'm not saying it's impossible to do that again but it's not incredibly likely. Cisse cost about £10m and at the minimum we need two of his standard (a lot of people would argue he's not good enough). £6.7 (not massively less than the £10m I suggested) didn't really lead to getting a defender ready to play in the premier league did it? (and I'm one of the ones who defended MBiwa). Our squad is just so painfully thin at the minute, I reckon we've only got about 13 players (not including the two at Forrest) who really look up to being premier league players. And we could lose some of them in the summer. I agree that a revamped coaching staff would certainly help but we still need big changes in the team and squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 If we could sign a coach who is liked by the fans and plays football that we enjoy, I'm sure the fans would tolerate 8-14th finishes and maybe even take pride in our club again instead of it being a fucking embarrassment. I honestly feel like we're the "And finally" news story every time I turn Sky Sports on. The day dream is Remi Garde + staff comes in as soon as he's available/end of the season. We sign 7-10 players for a variety of roles and at a variety of standards. A centre back or two, a proper forward, a quality central midfielder. We play some good football, get to a 1/4 final and finish 8th. That's it. That's the limit of my day-dream. Didn't Keegan say we should never stop deaming! It's a pretty depressing state of affairs when that's a dream for us. I do get what you're saying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Most of those occassions where we've really scored in terms of bringing in quality cheap (Cabaye, Ba, Sissoko) have been when there has been clauses in their contracts or their contracts have been running down. Obviously I'm not saying it's impossible to do that again but it's not incredibly likely. Cisse cost about £10m and at the minimum we need two of his standard (a lot of people would argue he's not good enough). £6.7 (not massively less than the £10m I suggested) didn't really lead to getting a defender ready to play in the premier league did it? (and I'm one of the ones who defended MBiwa). Our squad is just so painfully thin at the minute, I reckon we've only got about 13 players (not including the two at Forrest) who really look up to being premier league players. And we could lose some of them in the summer. I agree that a revamped coaching staff would certainly help but we still need big changes in the team and squad. So the way I see it, we will see an overhaul because we've the following players capable of keeping us in the Premier League/Premier League standard; Krul Janmaat Colo Haidara Colback ( I know) Tiote Sissoko Cabella De Jong (I'm hoping) Cisse Perez I expect Sissoko and Colo to go this summer. I'd not be surprised to see Tiote, and Cisse leave too. That leaves 7 senior players I believe are of a Premier League standard. I can't believe the new boss (I'm 100% certain it won't be Carver and will be Garde or something) will be facing the opening day of the Premier League with anything less than 15. Krul Janmaat XXXX XXXX/Lascelles? Haidara Colback XXXX Perez De Jong Cabella XXXX :pray: Edited March 20, 2015 by The Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 So the way I see it, we will see an overhaul because we've the following players capable of keeping us in the Premier League/Premier League standard; Krul Janmaat Colo Haidara Colback ( I know) Tiote Sissoko Cabella De Jong (I'm hoping) Cisse Perez I expect Sissoko and Colo to go this summer. I'd not be surprised to see Tiote, and Cisse leave too. That leaves 7 senior players I believe are of a Premier League standard. I can't believe the new boss (I'm 100% certain it won't be Carver and will be Garde or something) will be facing the opening day of the Premier League with anything less than 15. Krul Janmaat XXXX XXXX/Lascelles? Haidara Colback XXXX Perez De Jong Cabella XXXX :pray: Personally I think Taylor is of premier league standard. He's not great but most of the time he's decent. He shouldn't be first choice but he's a capable squad player. Aarons from what little we've seen looks like he has a real chance too if he ever gets fit. But other than that those are really the only players we have good enough in the squad and there's a few that shouldn't be starting. If we only lose the ones you're pretty certain on we need at least 3 starters and you're talking a minimum of £30m on them. That along side a proper coach would give us a chance of having somethinig worth watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Forgot about Aarons. Mind you we've only seen him a few times. Also there are loads of rumours that Messi is coming to England... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Forgot about Aarons. Mind you we've only seen him a few times. Also there are loads of rumours that Messi is coming to England... Keep that shit up and you're going on ignore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Aarons and Janmaat could be a very dangerous flank. Think Rolando would isolate Haidara who isn't great defensively yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Alternatively, if we had someone in front of Haidara who actually kept the opposition engaged defensively, he might get pressured as much as he does now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 We followed up a £10m club profit in 12/13 with a £19m net gain in transfers the following season. I'm failing to see how that is spending the profits? A possible £50m profit in 13/14 was followed with a £18m net spend in 14/15 (£7m of which was unavailable to play for us during the season). Again, that is not spending the profits. Because that disregards the £53m of losses between 2008 and 2010 and only takes a view from when we were profitable. It disregards £29m of debt repayments. We don't spend everything we have as soon as we have it and we have other bills to pay, but money isn't siphoned out of the club. What is left is there to spend in summer and we've grown summer spending almost every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Alternatively, if we had someone in front of Haidara who actually kept the opposition engaged defensively, he might get pressured as much as he does now? That's fair, I don't rate our midfield's ability to consistently find Aarons so while he might scare the defenders when he has the ball, but he might get isolated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26345 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Because that disregards the £53m of losses between 2008 and 2010 and only takes a view from when we were profitable. It disregards £29m of debt repayments. And there we have it. The club is not being allowed to spend what it generates because the club is paying Mike Ashley for Mike Ashley's mistakes. We're repaying the debt inherited by Mike Ashley because he failed to do his due diligence. We're repaying the debt from the relegation season because of Mike Ashley's monumental mismanagement of the club. None of the money loaned was to advance the club. How you can give him credit for loosening the purse strings is incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The club hasn't paid back any inherited debt. Its paid back relegation debt. We've always known that was a bill that was being called in as soon as it could be afforded. After paying bills the club spends what's left on signing players though. That's why I've been waiting for these accounts for 3 years. Moment of truth as to whether debt repayments stop now relegation is paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26345 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 So you think that it was right for Mike Ashley to take back the money from the relegation debt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Not at all. Should have absorbed it along with his other costs for fucking up. But we've known he's doing it for 4 years. Few other clubs would have the luxury of getting it interest free, let alone writing it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I agree that these accounts are going to be really interesting. Do we release any kind of statement to go with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I agree that these accounts are going to be really interesting. Do we release any kind of statement to go with them? Yeah "we're rich as fuck now hurry up and renew your season tickets" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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