2017 GE 1

[Dr Gloom 19879]

Ffs. Why is he saying this now? What a crass and utter failure to gauge the public mood in the immediate aftermath of the Manchester attack. It's almost as if he doesn't want to win the election.

 

http://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyn-blames-foreign-policy-for-terrorism-in-uk-10893243?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

[Dr Gloom 19879]

If he wanted to win votes he would talk about investing in security and surveillance to prevent this kind of attack from happening again. That's what voters want to hear right now. I know it's his favourite argument but what they they don't need to hear, just days after the attack, is that UK foreign policy is the main reason a death cult is butchering innocent children here in the UK.

[Rayvin 4964]

I dunno, he'll win attention of the anti-interventionists with that. And they tend to be Kippers.

 

He's also 100% correct IMO. Especially in this case.

 

Where is your assessment that the public mood is that we should keep burying our heads in the sand coming from? Was it polled?

[Rayvin 4964]

"That assessment in no way reduces the guilt of those who attack our children. Those terrorists will forever be reviled and held to account for their actions.

"But an informed understanding of the causes of terrorism is an essential part of an effective response that will protect the security of our people that fights rather than fuels terrorism.

"We must be brave enough to admit the 'war on terror' is simply not working. We need a smarter way to reduce the threat from countries that nurture terrorists and generate terrorism."

 

Don't see what is wrong with this.

 

EDIT - I see he's also planning to put 20,000 more officers on the street. Which should also poll well.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 19879]

Ffs. Step outside your echo chamber for 5 minutes Rayvin. Do I really need a poll to convince you that the majority of people in this country are patriotic royalists who want their leader to be strong on security and defence? This is an opportunity for him to score smart political points by turning the tragedy into a (lack of) investment story and to boost his image with voters by promising to crack down on those with terrorist links. 

 

Instead we get his usual brand of leftie navel gazing/ self flagellation. Voters will remember that headline. 

[Rayvin 4964]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Ffs. Step outside your echo chamber for 5 minutes Rayvin. Do I really need a poll to convince you that the majority of people in this country are patriotic royalists who want their leader to be strong on security and defence? This is an opportunity for him to score smart political points by turning the tragedy into a (lack of) investment story and to boost his image with voters by promising to crack down on those with terrorist links. 

 

Instead we get his usual brand of leftie navel gazing/ self flagellation. Voters will remember that headline. 

 

I'm not in a fucking echo chamber, I spend most of my days reading news that contradicts everything I believe  I just asked a question about where your info was coming from. Apparently it's from your gut.

 

How about this from the same article:

 

On domestic policy, Mr Corbyn will say: "To keep you and your family safe, our approach will involve change at home and change abroad.

"At home, Labour will reverse the cuts to our emergency services and police. Once again in Manchester, they have proved to be the best of us.

"Austerity has to stop at the A&E ward and at the police station door. We cannot be protected and cared for on the cheap.

"There will be more police on the streets under a Labour Government. And if the security services need more resources to keep track of those who wish to murder and maim, then they should get them."

 

If this message isn't getting through, and I'm reluctant to say this, it's because the media are deliberately focusing attention elsewhere.

 

I remain steadfast on this - telling the fucking truth about our foreign policy and its consequences is absolutely necessary, should be praised, and is entirely in keeping with who Corbyn is. If it costs him, it costs him. But he couldn't do anything else.

[adios 717]

50 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Well no, but his family hasn't been dragged into it, he's not been outed as an enemy of the state yet.... I dunno, I'm convinced there are depths that the Mail hasn't yet plumbed. They always seem to find a way to go further.

I'm not sure it matters what the Mail and its ilk says.  If the more moderate press turns on May, things could get very interesting.

 

Something is afoot.

[Dr Gloom 19879]

@Rayvin Of course he could do something else, which is exactly why he won't win the election. It's pretty fucking obvious what the top line of this story would be - but keep blaming the media again for his failure as a leader if it pleases you. 

 

It's his failure to play the game, to at least try to compromise on some of his long held beliefs to try to reach out to the majority of the electorate who obviously disagree with him on this issue, despite my lack of a poll to support the claim, which will cost him.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Dr Gloom

[adios 717]

This statement is only a problem because the media twist and/or oversimplify everything.

 

Not that it's very savvy not to realise that.

[Dr Gloom 19879]

2 minutes ago, adios said:

This statement is only a problem because the media twist and/or oversimplify everything.

 

Not that it's very savvy not to realise that.

 

I don't think sky has twisted anything in that piece. The headline highlights the most contentious/newsworthy quote in n the piece. Corbyn is trying to win an election and should know better.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I don't think this will do him any harm and as with all things in the campaign his speech will only lead the news cycle for a day or two.

 

i think a lot of people share similar feelings even though it's not that straight forward.

 

 

[Rayvin 4964]

8 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

@Rayvin Of course he could do something else, which is exactly why he won't win the election. It's pretty fucking obvious what the top line of this story would be - but keep blaming the media again for his failure as a leader if it pleases you. 

 

His is failure to play the game, to at least try to compromise on some of his long held beliefs to try to reach out to the majority of the electorate who obviously disagree with him on this issue, despite my lack of a poll to support the claim, is what will cost him.

 

Yeah fair enough. I'm not disagreeing that it could well cost him (although let's be realistic here, the fact that Labour are actually in the conversation at all now is in defiance of what the naysayers have claimed for the past two years). All I'm saying is that I personally respect his decision to refuse to play the media's game. He's showing that actually, the media aren't as powerful as they think they are.

 

I don't think that headline will cost him the election - I don't think he'll win it anyway. So he may as well stay true to his principles.

[Kid Dynamite 5965]

Got no issue with Corbyns statement, it's clear for all too see that that's the case. I dread to think what the headlines will be tomorrow though

[Rayvin 4964]

1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said:

I don't think this will do him any harm and as with all things in the campaign his speech will only lead the news cycle for a day or two.

 

i think a lot of people share similar feelings even though it's not that straight forward.

 

 

 

Yep. And CT is our barometer for the man on the street remember

[Kid Dynamite 5965]

I'm also clinging on to the hope that the GE will be the converse to the Brexit vote and Labour cause a shock 

[Rayvin 4964]

1 minute ago, Kid Dynamite said:

I'm also clinging on to the hope that the GE will be the converse to the Brexit vote and Labour cause a shock 

 

They just need to stop a Tory majority, it's not that inconceivable. Depends on Gloom and the rest of the press at this point I'd say

[Dr Gloom 19879]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Yeah fair enough. I'm not disagreeing that it could well cost him (although let's be realistic here, the fact that Labour are actually in the conversation at all now is in defiance of what the naysayers have claimed for the past two years). All I'm saying is that I personally respect his decision to refuse to play the media's game. He's showing that actually, the media aren't as powerful as they think they are.

 

I don't think that headline will cost him the election - I don't think he'll win it anyway. So he may as well stay true to his principles.

 

yeah, he may as well do his best to try to consolidate the defeat 

[Dr Gloom 19879]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

They just need to stop a Tory majority, it's not that inconceivable. Depends on Gloom and the rest of the press at this point I'd say

 

[Rayvin 4964]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

 

yeah, he may as well do his best to try to consolidate the defeat 

 

Don't panic just yet. Corbyn genuinely seems to know what he's doing at the moment, and I'm actually quite sure that the same people who want to reject immigration also call for us to abandon wars in foreign countries. He's arguably speaking across the aisle here.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

What's more of a concern for Labour is that the IFS have come out this morning and said Labours plans to grow the state --- "will not work".

 

I still think people like lots of free stuff and there is a Brexit thing going on. Wether it can last?

[adios 717]

10 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

I don't think sky has twisted anything in that piece. The headline highlights the most contentious/newsworthy quote in n the piece. Corbyn is trying to win an election and should know better.

I don't think it's balanced.  There are two main points to that statement; it's no shock that the one that's focused on happens to paint him in a worse light.

 

If it was a once off it could just be coincidence but we both know that's not the case.

[Rayvin 4964]

1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said:

What's more of a concern for Labour is that the IFS have come out this morning and said Labours plans to grow the state --- "will not work".

 

I still think people like lots of free stuff and there is a Brexit thing going on. Wether it can last?

 

That's interesting, I'll have a look at that.

[Dr Gloom 19879]

they also had a pop at the tories, though the posh twats obvioulsy know what they're doing with money. haven't the last 7 years been such a resounding success on that score?

 

The IFS said that the Conservatives' additional funding vows for the NHS and schools largely confirmed proposals made in the Budget in March.

"These plans imply at least another five years of austerity, with the continuation of planned welfare cuts and serious pressures on the public services including on the NHS," it said.

Mr Johnson, who said that neither main party was "being really honest with the public", commented: "It is likely that the Conservatives would either have to resort to tax or borrowing increases to bail out public services under increasing pressure, or would risk presiding over a decline in the quality of some of those services, including the NHS."

[Christmas Tree 3997]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

That's interesting, I'll have a look at that.

 

Dont worry, voters don't like experts

[Rayvin 4964]

Well no, I don't want Labour to incompetently manage the economy either  I would far rather that their plans were costed appropriately.

 

Hopefully it's a case of promising the earth and then just achieving what they can once in. i.e. politics as normal.