LeazesMag 0 Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 (edited) Has Martin O'Neill been sacked by anyone? Not to my knowledge. Brought Wycombe on, Stepped up to Leicester. Turned them into a steady Premiership side, took them as far as they could go. Step up to Celtic. Celtic in their worst mess since...Souness was at Rangers. Walks to the treble in his first season. Brings a team of average players to the UEFA Cup Final, Beating the likes of Liverpool, Souness' Blackburn, Stuttgart along the way. Masterminded the 1-0 conquering of Rijkaards Barca a season later, during Barcas amazing run in the 2nd half of that season. Not much of a track record is it? Why do most Man Ure fans seem to think he'd be the right man for that job? Because he's a little mackem lepricorn (whatever that is...)? No. Because he is a good man manager, a motivator and he knows what it takes to win things at a club with massive expectation (Celtic). Give him the job now 105624[/snapback] Martin O'Neills run to the final of the UEFA Cup is no different to, in fact not as good as, David O'Learys to the semi Final of the Champions League, and so IMO ought to be left to stew in the "possible fluke" section ......... 105630[/snapback] Well then why don't you take into account the amount of money O'Neill spent on his Celtic side then compare it to the sides he beat en route to the UEFA Cup final, then do the same with O'Leary and the sides he beat to get to the CL semifinal and tell me again that there is no difference between the two. 105804[/snapback] needed more money to beat the better teams enroute ??? Either way, neither he or O'leary got anywhere near repeating it. Did John Duncan get a premiership job on the back of taking Chesterfield to the FA Cup Semi Finals ? How many people said last year stick with Souness, because he was the first manager to have NUFC in two cup competitions in March ? You don't appoint managers on the back of a cup run, with nothing else to sustain it or prove his credibility. End of. Edited March 12, 2006 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26343 Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Has Martin O'Neill been sacked by anyone? Not to my knowledge. Brought Wycombe on, Stepped up to Leicester. Turned them into a steady Premiership side, took them as far as they could go. Step up to Celtic. Celtic in their worst mess since...Souness was at Rangers. Walks to the treble in his first season. Brings a team of average players to the UEFA Cup Final, Beating the likes of Liverpool, Souness' Blackburn, Stuttgart along the way. Masterminded the 1-0 conquering of Rijkaards Barca a season later, during Barcas amazing run in the 2nd half of that season. Not much of a track record is it? Why do most Man Ure fans seem to think he'd be the right man for that job? Because he's a little mackem lepricorn (whatever that is...)? No. Because he is a good man manager, a motivator and he knows what it takes to win things at a club with massive expectation (Celtic). Give him the job now 105624[/snapback] Martin O'Neills run to the final of the UEFA Cup is no different to, in fact not as good as, David O'Learys to the semi Final of the Champions League, and so IMO ought to be left to stew in the "possible fluke" section ......... 105630[/snapback] Well then why don't you take into account the amount of money O'Neill spent on his Celtic side then compare it to the sides he beat en route to the UEFA Cup final, then do the same with O'Leary and the sides he beat to get to the CL semifinal and tell me again that there is no difference between the two. 105804[/snapback] needed more money to beat the better teams enroute ??? Either way, neither he or O'leary got anywhere near repeating it. Did John Duncan get a premiership job on the back of taking Chesterfield to the FA Cup Semi Finals ? How many people said last year stick with Souness, because he was the first manager to have NUFC in two cup competitions in March ? You don't appoint managers on the back of a cup run, with nothing else to sustain it or prove his credibility. End of. 105810[/snapback] Better teams? Celtic beat a lot of good teams on their way to the final, I'm not saying its a basis to appoint him but you're dismissing it as a fluke, which IMO it wasn't, I watched most of their run that year and have to say they never looked out of their depth or survived on luck. His credibility has already been discussed regarding his achievements with Celtic, Leicester and Wycombe and these accomplishment are distinguished from Souness' by the lack of money he had available to him and the relevant level of competition he faced with his previous clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 (edited) Has Martin O'Neill been sacked by anyone? Not to my knowledge. Brought Wycombe on, Stepped up to Leicester. Turned them into a steady Premiership side, took them as far as they could go. Step up to Celtic. Celtic in their worst mess since...Souness was at Rangers. Walks to the treble in his first season. Brings a team of average players to the UEFA Cup Final, Beating the likes of Liverpool, Souness' Blackburn, Stuttgart along the way. Masterminded the 1-0 conquering of Rijkaards Barca a season later, during Barcas amazing run in the 2nd half of that season. Not much of a track record is it? Why do most Man Ure fans seem to think he'd be the right man for that job? Because he's a little mackem lepricorn (whatever that is...)? No. Because he is a good man manager, a motivator and he knows what it takes to win things at a club with massive expectation (Celtic). Give him the job now 105624[/snapback] Martin O'Neills run to the final of the UEFA Cup is no different to, in fact not as good as, David O'Learys to the semi Final of the Champions League, and so IMO ought to be left to stew in the "possible fluke" section ......... 105630[/snapback] Well then why don't you take into account the amount of money O'Neill spent on his Celtic side then compare it to the sides he beat en route to the UEFA Cup final, then do the same with O'Leary and the sides he beat to get to the CL semifinal and tell me again that there is no difference between the two. 105804[/snapback] needed more money to beat the better teams enroute ??? Either way, neither he or O'leary got anywhere near repeating it. Did John Duncan get a premiership job on the back of taking Chesterfield to the FA Cup Semi Finals ? How many people said last year stick with Souness, because he was the first manager to have NUFC in two cup competitions in March ? You don't appoint managers on the back of a cup run, with nothing else to sustain it or prove his credibility. End of. 105810[/snapback] Better teams? Celtic beat a lot of good teams on their way to the final, I'm not saying its a basis to appoint him but you're dismissing it as a fluke, which IMO it wasn't, I watched most of their run that year and have to say they never looked out of their depth or survived on luck. His credibility has already been discussed regarding his achievements with Celtic, Leicester and Wycombe and these accomplishment are distinguished from Souness' by the lack of money he had available to him and the relevant level of competition he faced with his previous clubs. 105815[/snapback] HIS efforts aren't being dismissed, I don't think winning the Scottish title with Celtic or Rangers by ANYONE is any big deal. Strachan is about to do it ? Is he good, we know already he isn't. Ditto Walter Smith, and of course fuckwit departed. Strachan is good in front of the camera though, like O'Neill, so the press build him up, or did when he was at Southampton anyway. I think Allardyce has done a better job with Bolton than O'Neill did at Leicester, and is a better long term bet, but thats just my opinion. O'Neill may be good, he may even turn out to be the right man for us and I hope he does, but it just goes to show there are no guarantees. One thing though, is those who want O'Neill can't say later that he is a shit appointment by Fred if he turns out to be just that, when they think otherwise now. Another thing is that his track record is nowhere near that of Dalglish, and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what other criteria the club can adopt other than picking the best possible CV's and backing him with cash to do the same, which the club have done. How O'Neill etc can be judged as good candidates on the back of their CV, whereas Dalglish was "shit" with an outstanding one, doesn't make sense. If O'Neill gets the job I'll back him, along with Hitzfeld, Allardyce, Hiddink or Eriksson etc because the club are using the right criteria to appoint and give them every chance of succeeding, so none of them are "shit". Some of them are better than others though, and for me O'neill will never give us a team to challenge for the title like the Keegan team however much money he has. Edited March 12, 2006 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BooBoo 0 Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 I think a lot of Toon fans need a bit of a reality check. I mean who the hell do some people think we are to get all snooty about Martin O'Neill? Lets face facts, we arent one of Europe's super powers and out of all the potential managers, he's probably the most qualified and suitable out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 I think a lot of Toon fans need a bit of a reality check. I mean who the hell do some people think we are to get all snooty about Martin O'Neill? Lets face facts, we arent one of Europe's super powers and out of all the potential managers, he's probably the most qualified and suitable out there. 105941[/snapback] I agree, but not in the same way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie 0 Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 No matter how many times I get told, I just don't see what it is. Won the LC twice, beating first division Tranmere and relegated Boro - that after a replay they earned following a goal two minutes into extra time injury time. Got to the UEFA Cup Final - beat Liverpool, Blackburn and Stuttgart on the way (Wow! Europe's giants!). Won things in Scotland - beaten soundly by Alex McLeish in the time they were both there, having broken the domination formed by those two proven Premiership managers, Graeme Souness and Walter Smith. Don't forget that his arrival coincided with the arrival the season before of a certain Swedish goal machine - who was that "success" really down to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 No matter how many times I get told, I just don't see what it is. Won the LC twice, beating first division Tranmere and relegated Boro - that after a replay they earned following a goal two minutes into extra time injury time. Got to the UEFA Cup Final - beat Liverpool, Blackburn and Stuttgart on the way (Wow! Europe's giants!). Won things in Scotland - beaten soundly by Alex McLeish in the time they were both there, having broken the domination formed by those two proven Premiership managers, Graeme Souness and Walter Smith. Don't forget that his arrival coincided with the arrival the season before of a certain Swedish goal machine - who was that "success" really down to? 105979[/snapback] Exactly as I think as well. As I said earlier, I reckon I got it spot on. Media hype, that's all it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 2929 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Ok but let's consider the first hurdle on the fat man's requirements for a manager. Is he British or Irish? Now look at the rest of the requirements and MON is close to the top of the list. Until fat Freddy gets past his first requirement MON or big Sam are the best we will get. fact tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34460 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Absolutely. It would be very interesting to see how many people approved this appointment...then turn round later and blame Fred for appointing another "shit" manager Although I obviously hope he appoints a top manager with a winning CV, as he can't attract them, like Kenny Dalglish, Robson and to a lesser extent Gullit 105603[/snapback] Wait a minute Leazes. Are you telling us IN ADVANCE that you think O'Neill is a bad appointment? Just so we can be sure if he does get the job that you think Shepherd has made two mistakes in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 31 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Would I be happy with MON? Yeah. I dont for one second think we could pull the likes of Fergy, Wenger from their post. We aint gonna attract the top manager, though many would relish the challange. Its difficult to say who would be best, I mean - who actually is available? Its all well and good us saying, FS should have went for XYZ, but it aint that simple. For me, Id just like someone who can manage people (not just push them out of the door if they are a problem), someone who had experience in Europe. Ideally someone who can get us playing decent football and not HOOFIT stylee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) Absolutely. It would be very interesting to see how many people approved this appointment...then turn round later and blame Fred for appointing another "shit" manager Although I obviously hope he appoints a top manager with a winning CV, as he can't attract them, like Kenny Dalglish, Robson and to a lesser extent Gullit 105603[/snapback] Wait a minute Leazes. Are you telling us IN ADVANCE that you think O'Neill is a bad appointment? Just so we can be sure if he does get the job that you think Shepherd has made two mistakes in a row. 106001[/snapback] Not quite. Just that he isn't my first choice, I don't understand why people think he is more qualified than Dalglish was, and he won't match the ambition that I have for the football club, unlike you and the others I will stick by my prediction, but I'm long past expecting you to read posts properly or answer the numerous questions I've asked you and the others. So you admit that when you backed Souness, and selling our best player, you supported it .... I am however, absolutely confident, that Shepherd will give the next manager more than sufficient money to be successful, and appoint someone with the possibility of being successful based on his record and profile [making it a sound appointment, unless you and the others can tell us what else he should be doing rather than use such a shit criteria] not like the vast majority of other big city clubs who will appoint a nobody manager and run their clubs in such a poor manner that they don't even have a chance of success. Like we also used to do as well. But I suppose that thinking is far too complex for an accountant. Edited March 13, 2006 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 My new policy is to claim that any new manager, or new player will be shite. That way, if there's a chance they do turn out to be shite, I can gloat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 0 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) I don't think appointing the manager who is available and has the best reputation is the right way to go. You need to look more carefully about how that reputation has come about and the managerial style behind it. Is that success replicable in the environment in which he would find himself at Newcastle? I have no doubt that Martin O'Neill is a good coach and a superb motivator. Under his tenure we would not see the sort of season we had last year as hard work and organisation is all that is required to get into the top half of the Premiership. However I do have concerns about how he can get us into the European qualification places on a regular basis (which is ultimately what will be expected of him). What about his managerial methods? I confess that I do not know too much about his underlying style- is he a blood and thunder sort, or has he adapted to take in the more scientific approaches to the modern game? As for his managerial acheivements- I wouldn't class the SPL as a complete walk-over, but the UEFA final is not the greatest indicator. We weren't that far from acheiving that ourselves not to long ago when we lost to a Marseille side that were really nothing special. Another thing that concerns me is that his appointment will see the media lambast us for any slight rumbling of discontent under his tenure. As a media luvvy, he can do no wrong, therefore it would have to be our fault. In any successful organisation, there needs to be accountability and responsibilty. When one individual becomes 'untouchable', then it's unlikely that the organisation will be operating to its full potential. Edited March 13, 2006 by Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) My new policy is to claim that any new manager, or new player will be shite. That way, if there's a chance they do turn out to be shite, I can gloat 106304[/snapback] Shameless plagarism of LM's viewpoint tbh Edited March 13, 2006 by Sima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Mag 3 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 As for his managerial acheivements- I wouldn't class the SPL as a complete walk-over, but the UEFA final is not the greatest indicator. We weren't that far from acheiving that ourselves not to long ago when we lost to a Marseille side that were really nothing special. 106353[/snapback] But its not just about them getting to the final, its the teams that they beat along the way and how they beat them, as well as some impressive wins in the Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 My new policy is to claim that any new manager, or new player will be shite. That way, if there's a chance they do turn out to be shite, I can gloat 106304[/snapback] Shameless plagarism of LM's viewpoint tbh 106355[/snapback] Bellamy is great. Zoggy is great. Souness is a wanker. Luque is a soft spanish puff. Boumsong is a French tart. We should have let Moore go on International duty and told the fucker not to bother coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 0 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 As for his managerial acheivements- I wouldn't class the SPL as a complete walk-over, but the UEFA final is not the greatest indicator. We weren't that far from acheiving that ourselves not to long ago when we lost to a Marseille side that were really nothing special. 106353[/snapback] But its not just about them getting to the final, its the teams that they beat along the way and how they beat them, as well as some impressive wins in the Champions League. 106361[/snapback] You're in a better position than most to judge how he'd fit in at NUFC. What do you reckon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Mag 3 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 As for his managerial acheivements- I wouldn't class the SPL as a complete walk-over, but the UEFA final is not the greatest indicator. We weren't that far from acheiving that ourselves not to long ago when we lost to a Marseille side that were really nothing special. 106353[/snapback] But its not just about them getting to the final, its the teams that they beat along the way and how they beat them, as well as some impressive wins in the Champions League. 106361[/snapback] You're in a better position than most to judge how he'd fit in at NUFC. What do you reckon? 106366[/snapback] I think he would do a decent job and is on the list of managers i`d gladly see at St James Park. Though saying that only if Robertson and Walford join him as they are the coaching and tactical men. I think he would bring the motivational skills we seen under the likes of Keegan etc and is someone who gets the best out of his players. I also feel he is a highly ambitious man and would not be coming here just for the paycheck. I do think he will definately tighten us up at the back though that would not be hard. I think the long ball thing is a bit of a myth and much like we have done in previous years is a tactic adopted when needed. Celtic did play alot of the ball on the deck however with Sutton and Hartson, whoever was playing alongside Larsson at the time obviously if things were not going their way they would at time play a long ball in the hope for a flick on much like we done with Shearer/Bellamy. I would say my reservation is that in the transfer market. Not that hes made bad signings but the fact that nearly all of his signings over the years have been British based. This however could be a good thing what with the amount of overseas players we have had that have not settled over the years. When you ask how he would fit into the current set up i think it all depends on who comes in and who goes out of the door in the summer as i feel at present the squad has not enough depth yet alot of what we have is average and i think any new manager will have a alot of work to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Absolutely. It would be very interesting to see how many people approved this appointment...then turn round later and blame Fred for appointing another "shit" manager Although I obviously hope he appoints a top manager with a winning CV, as he can't attract them, like Kenny Dalglish, Robson and to a lesser extent Gullit 105603[/snapback] Wait a minute Leazes. Are you telling us IN ADVANCE that you think O'Neill is a bad appointment? Just so we can be sure if he does get the job that you think Shepherd has made two mistakes in a row. 106001[/snapback] Not quite. Just that he isn't my first choice, I don't understand why people think he is more qualified than Dalglish was, and he won't match the ambition that I have for the football club, unlike you and the others I will stick by my prediction, but I'm long past expecting you to read posts properly or answer the numerous questions I've asked you and the others. So you admit that when you backed Souness, and selling our best player, you supported it .... I am however, absolutely confident, that Shepherd will give the next manager more than sufficient money to be successful, and appoint someone with the possibility of being successful based on his record and profile [making it a sound appointment, unless you and the others can tell us what else he should be doing rather than use such a shit criteria] not like the vast majority of other big city clubs who will appoint a nobody manager and run their clubs in such a poor manner that they don't even have a chance of success. Like we also used to do as well. But I suppose that thinking is far too complex for an accountant. 106037[/snapback] Fat, trainee accountant. With acne and red hair anarl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 As for his managerial acheivements- I wouldn't class the SPL as a complete walk-over, but the UEFA final is not the greatest indicator. We weren't that far from acheiving that ourselves not to long ago when we lost to a Marseille side that were really nothing special. 106353[/snapback] But its not just about them getting to the final, its the teams that they beat along the way and how they beat them, as well as some impressive wins in the Champions League. 106361[/snapback] Sorry, but a cup competition is not how a manager should be judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Mag 3 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 As for his managerial acheivements- I wouldn't class the SPL as a complete walk-over, but the UEFA final is not the greatest indicator. We weren't that far from acheiving that ourselves not to long ago when we lost to a Marseille side that were really nothing special. 106353[/snapback] But its not just about them getting to the final, its the teams that they beat along the way and how they beat them, as well as some impressive wins in the Champions League. 106361[/snapback] Sorry, but a cup competition is not how a manager should be judged. 106387[/snapback] Did i say he should? I was merely discussing one of the points regarding that cup run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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