How United can avoid bad buys

[Scottish Mag 3]

If Newcastle United played poker they would be a brave gambler who bet too big only to find that their hand was not as strong as they first thought.

 

That, at least, was the analogy used by Glenn Roeder as he reflected on the number of Premiership clubs who blindly gamble in the transfer market, fall for an agent bluff and end up passing on their pile of chips to their rivals.

 

In recent times at United, there has been the £5.8m lavished on Spanish defender Marcelino, the £3.3m on Croatian Silvio Maric, the £3.5m on Argentinian international midfielder Christian Bassedas, the £2m on Paraguay prospect Diego Gavilan, the £7m on Carl Cort, the £8.5m on Hugo Viana and, most recently, the £8.5m splashed out on French defender Jean-Alain Boumsong and the £9.5m spent to bring Albert Luque to St James's Park.

 

United, of course, are not the only football club to have lost money at the transfer table, but it is a vice chairman Freddie Shepherd is determined to quit and one Roeder may well be on hand to help with.

 

"Alan Shearer was saying the other day that he finds it strange that people who spend so much money on players don't employ someone to find out about their characters when they invest all this money," said Roeder, who will return to his job as director of the club's Academy unless he is given another role to channel his energies.

 

"It would make sense to me. I said to him that someone like the Italian coach Marcello Lippi does that. He identifies the talent and then their personality, otherwise he doesn't buy the player.

 

"There's no other industry like this when it comes to splashing out five, 10, 15 million and you sometimes wonder how much background work clubs have done. I don't think it would happen in any other business."

 

While United's caretaker manager may still be insisting he does not want to sit in the managerial chair permanently, it seems there is a role at the club which might take his fancy.

 

In Europe, it has been a common practice for a Director of Football to head a club's scouting operation, liaising with the team's manager to determine a specially tailored recruitment policy. It is a policy which places almost as much importance on character and personality as it does on skill and ability.

 

It is also a policy which is starting to find supporters in the Premiership, with both Tottenham and Chelsea recently battling for the services of top talent-spotter Frank Arnesen. It is also a position Roeder feels Newcastle should consider creating.

 

"When I look back now - I've always had this Lippi way of doing things in the back of mind since I first read about it at France 98," said Roeder, who admits he made his fair share of blunders in the transfer market during his time as manager of West Ham.

 

"I've always maintained that if I was in that position again I would prepare.

 

"That's why I believe the manager's job of old can't be right in the modern game. There's too many facets for a manager to do the job on his own.

 

"I agree with Alan completely. There needs to be someone who identifies the talent and identifies the character.

 

"Then between the manager and that person - like Frank Arnesen - you then go out into the transfer market. That way you try to eliminate buying poor players.

 

"Not only poor players that don't suit the club in terms of their ability and style, but also in terms of their character, personality and mentality - all those things.

 

"I don't think it's a coincidence that while Frank was at Tottenham they bought these young players who are now performing well in the Premiership.

 

"Martin Jol is an excellent coach, but Frank identified a lot of these players who are now performing in the first team. It is ridiculous that these large amounts of money are handed out almost at will and I know in lots of cases there is not enough homework."

 

One manager renowned for his ability to unearth and polish hidden gems in the transfer market is Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger. His approach of casting his net globally, rather than locally, though, has been criticised by some. Not that Roeder has any time for this `Little Englander' attitude.

 

He added: "Arsene Wenger has taken a lot of criticism in the last few weeks but he does exactly what I've just said. He is a champion of identifying talent, checking on the personality of the players and if they match.

 

"He's absolutely right - he doesn't look at what passport they have. I know how hard they work to find English talent because my son William was there for three years.

 

"He looks hard for English talent, but if it's not there, his remit is to make an Arsenal team successful and if he has to go elsewhere he'll do that. He's the top man for me."

[luckyluke 1]

The guy just keeps saying the right things. If he is not to be our permanent manager then chief scout or director of football sounds about right.

[Holden McGroin 4913]

What does a Director of Football actually do? Never understood.

[LeazesMag 0]

Obvious idea and not new. In the end it just comes down to judgement, other managers have done it in the past, Brian Clough did it for starters. The difference, and one that I find worrying, is that Clough and Taylor were prepared to accept character flaws in the confidence that they could man manage the person, whereas in certain cases such as our dear departed manager, like other limited managers such as Trevor Francis who sold Cantona for instance, he will never learn. Such cowardice only served to emphasise the managers limitations rather than anything.

 

Rather than head off down the Souness and Bellamy road again, it is absolutely right IMO to say that most people are not perfect, so footballing ability must come first, if a manager shies away from this sort of thing he should't be managing big football clubs who want to be successful and paid big money for what is, in essence, chickening out.

 

It obviously can be done, as is proved by the manager in question, but it all depends how stringently these things are applied. Alex Ferguson for another in the modern game has never fielded a team of angels, and has always had volatile characters. This worries me, Shearer is showing signs of being a Souness type clone rather than a Ferguson or a Clough - the main thing concerning a players character is what his character is like on the pitch, if he has heart, real desire and determination which spreads to his team mates, at the end of the day, if the hot headed or potentially volatile player respects his manager he will perform for him and exercise enough control over himself to be the player and often the match winner his team mates and supporters want him to be. If he doesn't then it just tells you all you need to know about the manager, and in my view, its the manager who isn't good enough and should be kicked out of the club.

 

So far as Newcastle United are concerned, Keegan got it right, because he judged the players temperament himself so this shows it can be done, or managed them properly.

 

Shankly, Busby, Revie, Graham.. etc... all the successful managers have had to handle one or two difficult players.

[Craig 6308]

OK, can you point out when Trevor Francis sold Eric Cantona??

 

Cantona was on trial at Sheffield Wednesday but he never actually signed for them and chose Leeds instead.

[LeazesMag 0]

OK, can you point out when Trevor Francis sold Eric Cantona??

 

Cantona was on trial at Sheffield Wednesday but he never actually signed for them and chose Leeds instead.

107863[/snapback]

 

 

Pedantic reply. Do you have nothing more to add Craig ?

 

Francis decided not to buy Cantona, so he then tried his luck at Leeds where even Wilkinson realised he was worth a bit of extra time ....

[Craig 6308]

Not a pedantic reply at all...

 

Francis wanted Cantona but he chose Leeds instead. Ask any Leeds or Wednesday fan and they'll confirm this...

 

Francis was livid that Cantona jumped ship as he expected the full-time signing to be a formality.

[LeazesMag 0]

Not a pedantic reply at all...

 

Francis wanted Cantona but he chose Leeds instead. Ask any Leeds or Wednesday fan and they'll confirm this...

 

Francis was livid that Cantona jumped ship as he expected the full-time signing to be a formality.

107866[/snapback]

 

Pedantic reply, to try and trip me up, [i'm only picking out one example of a limited manager], rather than make a proper contribution to a good topic.

 

It still pains you to admit that we were worse off without Bellamy I reckon, and those of us who said that its on the field that matters most have been proved right.

 

To carry on...Cantona was brought to Sheff Wed for a "trial"...a big international player....good management eh ??? It's my guess he instantly sussed out Francis to be a Souness type fuckwit, add to the fact that he found the offer of a trial ridiculously offensive and rightly so, and it helped to confirm his opinion Francis was a Souness type prick, so pissed off somewhere else.

Edited March 18, 2006 by LeazesMag

[Gemmill 34739]

I've got a reply for you Leazes - if Newcastle had been employing this approach over the years, Craig Bellamy would NEVER have played for us because of his character and personality. And you would never have fallen in love.

[Craig 6308]

Francis decided not to buy Cantona

107864[/snapback]

 

 

It's my guess he instantly sussed out Francis to be a Souness type fuckwit, add to the fact that he found the offer of a trial ridiculously offensive and rightly so, and it helped to confirm his opinion Francis was a Souness type prick, so pissed off somewhere else.

107869[/snapback]

 

Which is it to be then Leazes? Two totally different opinions in a matter of minutes.

 

You don't need any tripping up, you manage that pretty good off your own back!

 

BTW, love the way you have to bring Bellamy into a debate every time you're proved wrong!

[Wor Al 0]

Which is it to be then Leazes? Two totally different opinions in a matter of minutes.

 

check my sig. That was posted in a matter of minutes, too.

 

[LeazesMag 0]

Francis decided not to buy Cantona

107864[/snapback]

 

 

It's my guess he instantly sussed out Francis to be a Souness type fuckwit, add to the fact that he found the offer of a trial ridiculously offensive and rightly so, and it helped to confirm his opinion Francis was a Souness type prick, so pissed off somewhere else.

107869[/snapback]

 

Which is it to be then Leazes? Two totally different opinions in a matter of minutes.

 

You don't need any tripping up, you manage that pretty good off your own back!

 

BTW, love the way you have to bring Bellamy into a debate every time you're proved wrong!

107872[/snapback]

 

As I said, pedantic. Rather than make a comment about the subject.

 

I think you may find that Francis wanted Cantona to stay and didn't keep him because of his own incompetence and stupidity, which is the point. Not that I care either way.

 

Like I said, the fact you are wrong that having a team of goody two shoes left us worse off than when Bellamy was here must be cutting pretty deep....

 

Whats your opinion on Roeders comments ? do you think Shearer is displaying signs of a fuckwit Souness type mentality or not ? If you don't fancy replying leave it to someone else, thats the only point I'm making.

[LeazesMag 0]

Which is it to be then Leazes? Two totally different opinions in a matter of minutes.

 

check my sig. That was posted in a matter of minutes, too.

 

107875[/snapback]

 

aaahhhh...omarriveldhinpeledhino emerges from digging his hole in the ground.......as I asked you once before, as you think your knowledge of NUFC is as good as everyone elses, what was your opinion on Mark Stimson, Alex Bruce and Andy Thomas ?

 

BTW ... a quick look through your posting history, and surprisingly there's isn't an informative comment anywhere .. in fact all he does is follow me around like a sick puppy

[Wor Al 0]

Which is it to be then Leazes? Two totally different opinions in a matter of minutes.

 

check my sig. That was posted in a matter of minutes, too.

 

107875[/snapback]

 

aaahhhh...omarriveldhinpeledhino emerges from digging his hole in the ground.......as I asked you once before, as you think your knowledge of NUFC is as good as everyone elses, what was your opinion on Mark Stimson, Alex Bruce and Andy Thomas ?

 

BTW ... a quick look through your posting history, and surprisingly there's isn't an informative comment anywhere .. in fact all he does is follow me around like a sick puppy

107879[/snapback]

 

You really are a thick shit aren't ya, Leazes?!!

 

Not everyone is as old as you! I certainly don't know, or ever claimed, that I know much about the period of which I wasn't a supporter or even born in! That's not going to affect me much when debating with idiots like you about today's NUFC, because it's irrelevant. I hope that's not too complicated for you understand.

 

I though your replies about Henry, Tomasson, Cordone and Cris(Holland!! ) were really hilarious! It just confirmed what I already knew ages ago, really.

Edited March 18, 2006 by Omar

[Jimbo 133]

Not a pedantic reply at all...

 

Francis wanted Cantona but he chose Leeds instead. Ask any Leeds or Wednesday fan and they'll confirm this...

 

Francis was livid that Cantona jumped ship as he expected the full-time signing to be a formality.

107866[/snapback]

 

Pedantic reply, to try and trip me up, [i'm only picking out one example of a limited manager], rather than make a proper contribution to a good topic.

 

It still pains you to admit that we were worse off without Bellamy I reckon, and those of us who said that its on the field that matters most have been proved right.

 

To carry on...Cantona was brought to Sheff Wed for a "trial"...a big international player....good management eh ??? It's my guess he instantly sussed out Francis to be a Souness type fuckwit, add to the fact that he found the offer of a trial ridiculously offensive and rightly so, and it helped to confirm his opinion Francis was a Souness type prick, so pissed off somewhere else.

107869[/snapback]

 

 

Sheffield Wednesday also decided not to sign a young Argentinian Striker they had on trial by the name of Hernan Crespo.

[Albert Kirkey 0]

I think the story around Cantona at the Owls was he came over for training, but it was bad winter weather at the time, and they'd only seen him indoors.

 

Francis wanted to have a look at him outside on a proper grass pitch, but by the time he could Leeds had come in.

 

A football director would be a good idea, works very well on the continent.

 

I also think it's a bit wrong to say having one at Newcastle would have stopped Bellamy signing for us. There might have been some negative stuff banded around about him when he signed in 2001, but to say he was thought to be a wrong un at the time isn't right.

[LeazesMag 0]

Which is it to be then Leazes? Two totally different opinions in a matter of minutes.

 

check my sig. That was posted in a matter of minutes, too.

 

107875[/snapback]

 

aaahhhh...omarriveldhinpeledhino emerges from digging his hole in the ground.......as I asked you once before, as you think your knowledge of NUFC is as good as everyone elses, what was your opinion on Mark Stimson, Alex Bruce and Andy Thomas ?

 

BTW ... a quick look through your posting history, and surprisingly there's isn't an informative comment anywhere .. in fact all he does is follow me around like a sick puppy

107879[/snapback]

 

You really are a thick shit aren't ya, Leazes?!!

 

Not everyone is as old as you! I certainly don't know, or ever claimed, that I know much about the period of which I wasn't a supporter or even born in! That's not going to affect me much when debating with idiots like you about today's NUFC, because it's irrelevant. I hope that's not too complicated for you understand.

 

I though your replies about Henry, Tomasson, Cordone and Cris(Holland!! ) were really hilarious! It just confirmed what I already knew ages ago, really.

107883[/snapback]

 

The point being, dino, you knew nothing about those players because you didn't see them, and you know nothing about the current players because you don't see them ?

 

Poor little dino, still looking for acceptance on a board somewhere. Posting about nothing because he knows nothing.

 

In short, you know fuck all. Your posts prove it.

 

Still following me around like a little lapdog I see........speaking of shit, like you did above, do you shit on the ground like a little lapdog too...and cover it up with your back legs.....that must be your name, Dino the lapdog

[LeazesMag 0]

I think the story around Cantona at the Owls was he came over for training, but it was bad winter weather at the time, and they'd only seen him indoors.

 

Francis wanted to have a look at him outside on a proper grass pitch, but by the time he could Leeds had come in.

 

A football director would be a good idea, works very well on the continent.

 

I also think it's a bit wrong to say having one at Newcastle would have stopped Bellamy signing for us. There might have been some negative stuff banded around about him when he signed in 2001, but to say he was thought to be a wrong un at the time isn't right.

107893[/snapback]

 

here's the story mate, from a Leeds perspective anyway

 

http://www.mightyleeds.co.uk/players/cantona2.htm

 

Agree that the notion that bad egg stuff bandied about Bellamy was a load of shite, no one said anything like that until Souness walked into the club

[Craig 6308]

what was your opinion on Mark Stimson, Alex Bruce and Andy Thomas ?

107879[/snapback]

 

I know it's not aimed at me, but i'll answer anyway....

 

Mark Stimson - bag of shite full back who we put up with for far too long. I remember us trying to get Paul Bodin from Swindon around the time we had Stimmo and although he'd been on loan, he turned down a permanent move and I was totally gutted.

 

Andy Thomas - did a decent job for us during the 86/87 season but then faded away into obscurity. To be fair although he bagged in a few goals, he seemed to be a squad player who was drafted in when others were out (notably Beardsley v Wimbledon (H) and Gascoigne when he was out for a long period).

 

Alex Bruce - when the hell did 'son of Bagpuss' play for us?

[Wor Al 0]

Which is it to be then Leazes? Two totally different opinions in a matter of minutes.

 

check my sig. That was posted in a matter of minutes, too.

 

107875[/snapback]

 

aaahhhh...omarriveldhinpeledhino emerges from digging his hole in the ground.......as I asked you once before, as you think your knowledge of NUFC is as good as everyone elses, what was your opinion on Mark Stimson, Alex Bruce and Andy Thomas ?

 

BTW ... a quick look through your posting history, and surprisingly there's isn't an informative comment anywhere .. in fact all he does is follow me around like a sick puppy

107879[/snapback]

 

You really are a thick shit aren't ya, Leazes?!!

 

Not everyone is as old as you! I certainly don't know, or ever claimed, that I know much about the period of which I wasn't a supporter or even born in! That's not going to affect me much when debating with idiots like you about today's NUFC, because it's irrelevant. I hope that's not too complicated for you understand.

 

I though your replies about Henry, Tomasson, Cordone and Cris(Holland!! ) were really hilarious! It just confirmed what I already knew ages ago, really.

107883[/snapback]

 

The point being, dino, you knew nothing about those players because you didn't see them, and you know nothing about the current players because you don't see them ?

 

Poor little dino, still looking for acceptance on a board somewhere. Posting about nothing because he knows nothing.

 

In short, you know fuck all. Your posts prove it.

 

Still following me around like a little lapdog I see........speaking of shit, like you did above, do you shit on the ground like a little lapdog too...and cover it up with your back legs.....that must be your name, Dino the lapdog

107908[/snapback]

 

flipin 'eck! Your wife faced a lot of competition for you, didn't she?!