Rayvin

Alan Pardew Had almost forgotten that happened. 8 year contract FFS. Just went over to RTG btw and can see the Fish is on there trying to manage the mackems' expectations and reassuring them that we won't really spend very much. This is the weird fucking world that he's made for himself over there tbh, he's talking them down from getting over excited about this takeover instead of the other way around.

Watch this drag on all day

Christ that's pathetic from the BBC. Not even trying to hide it. Sycophants.

Fair. No idea on the polls tbh - last week Labour were down but I'm struggling to see anyone rallying to Johnson at the moment, even the Mail is tearing him apart.

Yeah that's a fair cop tbh, HMHM has been correcting me on that for years. Thought I'd kicked it, but alas not. All my concentration spent on avoiding being told off for calling Johnson "Boris", clearly.

Had a quick scan around some of the forums for the big 6 - "it's the end of the game (Arsenal)", "money ruined the sport (Chelsea!)", "we'll never win the league again" (United). Some joker was concerned we might try to poach Solskjaer...

I'm fine with that as ever, but I do want to point out as a final note that had the 'bash the left' play worked, and the polls had reflected that, I think it would be much harder for Jones to make the argument he's making. It's an open goal because it was a poorly thought out strategy.

Charnley The hidden rebellion of the crushed man. He's another one I'd expect to be fired into the sun shortly as well tbh.

I think this is a bit unfair on Jones, and I have next to no time for him. Jones is one of the most high profile/well platformed people that the Labour left has, and will see it as his duty given his beliefs to convey that particular argument. I would imagine that when it actually matters, pre-GE, he will soften on Starmer considerably. There is no such thing as an action free from consequence, and Starmer choosing to abandon (I think all?) pledges that had the left of the party rally behind him in the first place is something that we have to reasonably expect consequences would be attached to. If he didn't see that coming, he's not fit for his post. I suspect he rather did see it coming though, and was even gambling that it would poll well given that it looks like he's "beating the left". The sad truth though, is that his party just looks like a complete shambles. IMO that's completely on him at this stage. He's a politician, he was more than capable of navigating this without causing a clusterfuck if he wanted to - he just didn't want to. For all you can claim the left should rally behind them, he has in fact been stamping on their collective faces for the past few weeks. If they let that go without comment, then IMO they'll probably just go home and stop bothering with Labour altogether - and while you might cheer that, I suspect when volunteers are needed around election time, the party will rue their loss. Unless people like yourself are going to go out in their place - which is basically what will need to happen if this schism doesn't resolve. Jones is well within his rights to point out the stupidity of Starmer's play here. And I don't think for a second he would prefer Johnson as PM.

What, as them? I suppose insofar as that bracket is expanded to include all vaguely humanoid lifeforms, that may be possible. Still not guaranteed with Sunderland though, they do like their local born players.

It could be that the PL actually doesn't have that much of a case on any other level though. Ashley's determination to have his day in court might be forcing their hand a bit. This gesture from SA maybe allows all concerned to walk back from the rather stupid hills they chose to die on. That said, I daresay there'll be a few more twists and turns ahead yet.

Well I had planned to just ignore this but the last two pages from you lot of dragged me in with you. Still not sure how I feel about the ethics of this, but Bruce's football is basically a crime against humanity anyway. Do you think they'll keep him about?

I reckon we'll rejoin the EU before this takeover is completed.

What could the government have done about this one? Seems to be a global issue, and I appreciate we need to judge them by their response, but have they actually exacerbated it? The sooner we get onto renewables, the better, frankly.

I mean it's not as simple as just being Brexit - Brexit's role in this is that it has completely devastated the flexibility we had in the system to handle crisis moments, and I think honestly that'll generally be how such issues manifest in future. The crisis itself was largely driven by panic buying based on BP announcing they were having some supply issues. Whereas once it would have been a fairly simple job for the market to supply drivers to take up the load to fix this, the reality now is that we've been making it more and more difficult for the very people we need to help us - and ultimately that's why the government was forced into a nationally humiliating u-turn over their visas.

I think an important qualifying aspect to this which people leave out is the notion that yeah, many men might be able to make a sexist joke or an objectifying comment and laugh off without feeling the need to go and rape someone, but some other fellas have a far lower threshold. So when we say all men need to police each other's behaviour, it's not because we think all men might be closet rapists - it's because it's the only reliable way to weed out or shut down the ones that are. And for the men who feel put out about that - yeah it sucks that you have to be policed in this way, but surely it's better to have it set up like this than another woman is brutalised at the altar of "lad culture". Men need/have to stop taking this as some kind of attack on them as men, and see it as a collective exercise in protecting women

And long term strategy orientation for businesses. And affordable housing.

Have to say actually, what I've grasped of the supposed headlines of Starmers speech so far I am fully behind. I'm a huge believer in mental health issues being the root of many problems and his strategy of making resources available to all children is a real winner for me. Think of all the damaged people that could help, and the positive knock on consequences for society. Didn't see that coming but it has softened me towards him.

An observation: The Guardian are sticking as many knives into Starmer as they did into Corbyn. Whose side are they even on?

You mean he'll create the path for someone better? Maybe. That could be it. I just hope PR comes along with this somewhere because we really need to change the record. I'm completely fine with sacrificing the Labour Party to kill the Tory Party.

Starmer has just said that winning an election is more important than party unity. Seems fair enough taken at face value, but as one commenter BTL on the guardian put it "its like saying buying food is more important than having money". I think we can assume that this is his threat to the left to like it or lump it though. My guess is they go for the latter and head off to the Greens, further reinforcing how important it is that we have an electoral pact. His speech tomorrow is going to have to be stellar tbh.

Sorry to hear of this Rents. And for arguing about pointless shite with you in the politics thread. I'd be furious too, but as everyone has said really, I think for the sake of your dad you should park it for now and try to get on. Hopefully your mum is negative anyway.

Oh and as for the avatar. Yeah I can now see that too and am concerned you've ruined it for me Hopefully my brain writes it off as a feverish delusion.

Ok well I'm fully with you on Israel now. Not remotely close to being an important issue for the Labour Party. Even if we should be worrying about human rights, and I'm not sure we have the capacity for that at present, we should be directing it in a far more widespread way. Continuously harping on about Israel to the exclusion of all others frankly is antisemitic. As for the EU - I don't see us rejoining any time soon either, but I don't think that's the platform Labour should stand on. It should be about making the best of where we are, all the while being very up front about why things are shit, and trying to encourage useful dialogue around the issue instead of pretending it isn't happening. @Renton my issue now isn't really Starmer, it's the whole party. I'm as sick of Corbyn and his tribe (why are they even still relevant, why have they not fucked off?!) as I am of what I perceive to be a collective issue with the Labour moderates in their total lack of strategic vision. I saw an article about Obama just now, saying its time for the rich to pay a bit more in taxes. He then clarified that this meant him too. Perfect - acknowledges his own wealth, acknowledges that he could do more, doesn't make a big fuss about it but lands the point. Still exudes leadership even now. I wonder quite often why we don't have more Blairs and Obamas (flawed though they both were) and my leading theory is that they probably do exist, even within party machinations, but that every other political figure within a party thinks they can be the same thing, lacking the self awareness necessary to see that they're nothing of the sort. But your Blair and Obamas have to fight through these people to get to the position where they can take control, and it doesn't seem to happen that often. I mean I can't think of anyone in Labour who fits the bill but they must exist, surely. For me, Starmer is a Biden. Can't win off his own back but maybe could win if his opponent was horrifying enough. And given that I've been pretty impressed with Biden in general, that's not a bad thing to be. I would still prefer something better though.

Incidentally I'm laid up with a fever and a migraine so if all of this is bordering on (or entirely) incoherent then that'll be why. I mean you'll be used to it anyway like, but this time I have a valid excuse.