Renton

Of course, ignoring all the precedents to the contrary...

Stevie, just post as yourself man if you're going to post at alll. I've no idea why you stopped posting in the first place tbh but I admit have enjoyed the break...

eh? i didnt start this particular track of conversation and i didnt cite those countries. Renton did. He asked me a question to which i answered. I never for one moment held them up as a shinig example for why the UK should leave the eu. tbh, I'm not that bothered by the countries mentioned. however i do know for an absolute fact that this countrys NET spend to the eu is £40.5 billion per annum. Thats £40.5 billion which could be spent on things like the NHS for example. I also know that we are a NET importer of goods (ie we buy more material goods than we sell). therefore the eu would be stupid in the extreme to take a huff and stop selling us things. and even if by some miracle the eu did decide to stop selling us stuff then theres always the far east markets who would gladly take its place in terms of selling us stuff. at least they (the asians) wouldnt pretend we're all the same because of geographics. That absolute fact of £40.5 billion net expenditure to the EU, have you got a reputable reference for it (i.e. not BNP or UKIP site, preferably a primary reference)? I'm just genuinely curious because I've also heard it stated that we are net beneficaries. In any case the number seems rather large. as i said earlier in the thread the source for these figures is Civitas http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/OS/OS13.htm I've had a brief dig around and can't see where Veritas got their data from, so so much for your 'absolute fact' - it's a moot point at best but probably just plain wrong. Everything else I've read puts our net contribution as between 5 and 10 billion euro, about the same as France (which has recently increased its contribution) and significantly less than Germany. This graph is 4 years old but I'd love to know how there has been a ten fold increase since then. I'd suggest the huge trading benefits, as well as ease of transport, legal benefits, and intangible benefits etc, more than make up for our contribution. Edit: Btw, reading through the Civitas website, seriously AA, do you think they are impartial? They're a right wing 'think tank' who are overtly euroskeptic and seemingly have close ties with Migration watch, another right wing think tank (whatever a think tank is). You can't present their views as unbiased. What is it with these think tanks anyway? Remember when 'Policy Exchange' recommended the entire North of England should migrate to the South East?

I always knew that conditions for animals in circuses were shit but thought zoos in general were "better" but I think what really turned me off was going to one about 25 years ago with my niece who was 5 or 6 at the time - it took the innocent questions like "why does that lion look so sad" to really wake me up. In fact I think she was so upset that we left early. Places like Monkey World are a bit different but these places where animals are used for "entertainment" are fucking immoral imo. I guess the existing orcas couldn't be freed now, it would be ridiculous to think that any are still captured and 'tamed' for entertainment purposes. I've seen dolphins perform in Tenerife and Baltimore, didn't think much about it at the time but in retrospect maybe I should have.

correct, it also shows that the Halls were instrumental in the running of the club [of course they must have been] but that still won't stop cretins like Renton to continue blaming one person who had less than 30% of shares taking the blame for everything. Not exactly the sort of view smart lads should be spouting..... Did you not agree with the rest of it then? yes, I have posted - on here or NO - before that they did have someone lined up who agreed to take over then changed their mind at the last moment. And it was not Steve Bruce. Sounds a bit of a convenient excuse to me like. been telling people this for years. It is true though. It could have come from Shepherd himself and I'd still take it with a massive pinch of salt. Sounds just like something he'd say tbh, i.e. making an initial approach for a top manager, getting some promising responses then saying the dirty was done on him when it didn't work out. The manager concerned told his chairman at the time he was leaving, then changed his mind. Why?

correct, it also shows that the Halls were instrumental in the running of the club [of course they must have been] but that still won't stop cretins like Renton to continue blaming one person who had less than 30% of shares taking the blame for everything. Not exactly the sort of view smart lads should be spouting..... WRONG. I've always blamed Douglas Hall as much as Shepherd and have always made my dislike of him more vocal. Feel free to prove otherwise. Keep up with the childish jibes as well you big bairn. sense of humour failure. keep the irony going too What irony? Aye, because it's really hilarious to keep referring to me as a wanker, tosser, cretin (whether replying to me or someone else), and making up a load of cobblers I've never said. You should consider stand up. Like to answere the point of the timing of Robson's dismissal? Do you back the board on this one or not? It was the same time as Gullits, wasn't it ? Or do you think they should have stuck with Gullit if that was also the "wrong time" This IS your point isn't it ie "planning" Other than that, give it a rest, admit when you are wrong and stop being such a smart arse. Hardly being a smart arse, I seriously don't know what I'm supposed to be wrong about here. Gullit was different, we were further into the season, in a much worse position, and he'd completely lost the dressing room including Alan Shearer. More importantly, Robson was available. If you have inside information that we had a quality manager lined up after Robson, I'm all ears. I think the board ballsed up massive style and it has been downhill ever since. Fwiw I blame Hall more for this than Shepherd, always have. we were 7 games into the season [about 7 anyway] with almost the entire season left. Do you or do you not accept therefore that your comments about "timing" are irrelevant and you are in fact talking about the quality of the manager as you were happy for Robson to take over at that time from Gullitt ie with most of the season left. We had a manager lined up to take over from Sir Bob, that is what I said, yes. If we had a brilliant manager to take over from Robson, then that would have been fair enough. It didn't happen though, did it? And I'm sorry but why should I take your word for it (or anybody's word for it on here for that matter)? I can only draw conclusions from what I know personally or are in the public domain.

That was his follow-up to his original which did like. sorry. didnt see that one. i just replied to that particular post. damn my eyes for not keeping up............ Let you off.

eh? i didnt start this particular track of conversation and i didnt cite those countries. Renton did. He asked me a question to which i answered. I never for one moment held them up as a shinig example for why the UK should leave the eu. tbh, I'm not that bothered by the countries mentioned. however i do know for an absolute fact that this countrys NET spend to the eu is £40.5 billion per annum. Thats £40.5 billion which could be spent on things like the NHS for example. I also know that we are a NET importer of goods (ie we buy more material goods than we sell). therefore the eu would be stupid in the extreme to take a huff and stop selling us things. and even if by some miracle the eu did decide to stop selling us stuff then theres always the far east markets who would gladly take its place in terms of selling us stuff. at least they (the asians) wouldnt pretend we're all the same because of geographics. I know he asked the question. Am I not allowed to comment on the answer like? of course you can my friend but your comment implied that i had cited these particular countries 1st. I hadn't so i clarified the point. no offence was taken by your comment, only confusion. How? I was only saying what I said because it was an irrelevent comparison. Iirc though you said there were loads of counties in Europe doing well outside the EU as part of your argument as to why the UK should leave. When you were asked which countries these were, it was pointed out they were very different to the UK, therefore not particularly relevent to the discussion. My own view on Europe is that, while we're better in than out there's a hell of a lot of bureaucratic waste etc. which should be sorted out but citing Switzerland and Norway is a bit pointless. ah right, got you now. did i say europe? im not certain that i did but i could have done in a pissed moment. I'll have a check back and look..... Edit: "and yes, i would have us out of the eu. theres a lot of countries that deal with the eu on better terms than britain does atm so i dont see how it would be financial suicide." I cant see any mention of European countries only. It was meant to mean worldwide. Ive no idea were the European only element came into it. Perhaps because we're European? Can you name a country similar in size to the UK that operates successfully anywhere in the world and is not part of a larger trading block? Japan may be an example I guess but then again there are huge differences between us. Australia is another one but they have vast natural resources iirc.

eh? i didnt start this particular track of conversation and i didnt cite those countries. Renton did. He asked me a question to which i answered. I never for one moment held them up as a shinig example for why the UK should leave the eu. tbh, I'm not that bothered by the countries mentioned. however i do know for an absolute fact that this countrys NET spend to the eu is £40.5 billion per annum. Thats £40.5 billion which could be spent on things like the NHS for example. I also know that we are a NET importer of goods (ie we buy more material goods than we sell). therefore the eu would be stupid in the extreme to take a huff and stop selling us things. and even if by some miracle the eu did decide to stop selling us stuff then theres always the far east markets who would gladly take its place in terms of selling us stuff. at least they (the asians) wouldnt pretend we're all the same because of geographics. That absolute fact of £40.5 billion net expenditure to the EU, have you got a reputable reference for it (i.e. not BNP or UKIP site, preferably a primary reference)? I'm just genuinely curious because I've also heard it stated that we are net beneficaries. In any case the number seems rather large. as i said earlier in the thread the source for these figures is Civitas http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/OS/OS13.htm Primary source? Reputable? Likely to be impartial? http://www.civitas.org.uk/ they're supposed to have no political affiliation so i dont see any reason for them to 'massage the figures' (ie lie). have a look and decide for yourself. I'll have a look. At a quick glance they may describe themselves as non-partisan but they're certainly political (e.g. they want to abolish the NHS). That's why primary data would be much better, must be available from somewhere I'd think.

eh? i didnt start this particular track of conversation and i didnt cite those countries. Renton did. He asked me a question to which i answered. I never for one moment held them up as a shinig example for why the UK should leave the eu. tbh, I'm not that bothered by the countries mentioned. however i do know for an absolute fact that this countrys NET spend to the eu is £40.5 billion per annum. Thats £40.5 billion which could be spent on things like the NHS for example. I also know that we are a NET importer of goods (ie we buy more material goods than we sell). therefore the eu would be stupid in the extreme to take a huff and stop selling us things. and even if by some miracle the eu did decide to stop selling us stuff then theres always the far east markets who would gladly take its place in terms of selling us stuff. at least they (the asians) wouldnt pretend we're all the same because of geographics. That absolute fact of £40.5 billion net expenditure to the EU, have you got a reputable reference for it (i.e. not BNP or UKIP site, preferably a primary reference)? I'm just genuinely curious because I've also heard it stated that we are net beneficaries. In any case the number seems rather large. as i said earlier in the thread the source for these figures is Civitas http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/OS/OS13.htm Primary source? Reputable? Likely to be impartial?

eh? i didnt start this particular track of conversation and i didnt cite those countries. Renton did. He asked me a question to which i answered. I never for one moment held them up as a shinig example for why the UK should leave the eu. tbh, I'm not that bothered by the countries mentioned. however i do know for an absolute fact that this countrys NET spend to the eu is £40.5 billion per annum. Thats £40.5 billion which could be spent on things like the NHS for example. I also know that we are a NET importer of goods (ie we buy more material goods than we sell). therefore the eu would be stupid in the extreme to take a huff and stop selling us things. and even if by some miracle the eu did decide to stop selling us stuff then theres always the far east markets who would gladly take its place in terms of selling us stuff. at least they (the asians) wouldnt pretend we're all the same because of geographics. I know he asked the question. Am I not allowed to comment on the answer like? of course you can my friend but your comment implied that i had cited these particular countries 1st. I hadn't so i clarified the point. no offence was taken by your comment, only confusion. Hold on now. I said name a country except Norway. You answered 'Norway'. The correct answer was no country btw. What I'd then like to know is why do you think that is? Presumably other large countries think it is beneficial to be in the EU otherwise they'd withdraw. Not to mention all the countries that would love to join.

eh? i didnt start this particular track of conversation and i didnt cite those countries. Renton did. He asked me a question to which i answered. I never for one moment held them up as a shinig example for why the UK should leave the eu. tbh, I'm not that bothered by the countries mentioned. however i do know for an absolute fact that this countrys NET spend to the eu is £40.5 billion per annum. Thats £40.5 billion which could be spent on things like the NHS for example. I also know that we are a NET importer of goods (ie we buy more material goods than we sell). therefore the eu would be stupid in the extreme to take a huff and stop selling us things. and even if by some miracle the eu did decide to stop selling us stuff then theres always the far east markets who would gladly take its place in terms of selling us stuff. at least they (the asians) wouldnt pretend we're all the same because of geographics. That absolute fact of £40.5 billion net expenditure to the EU, have you got a reputable reference for it (i.e. not BNP or UKIP site, preferably a primary reference)? I'm just genuinely curious because I've also heard it stated that we are net beneficaries. In any case the number seems rather large.

correct, it also shows that the Halls were instrumental in the running of the club [of course they must have been] but that still won't stop cretins like Renton to continue blaming one person who had less than 30% of shares taking the blame for everything. Not exactly the sort of view smart lads should be spouting..... WRONG. I've always blamed Douglas Hall as much as Shepherd and have always made my dislike of him more vocal. Feel free to prove otherwise. Keep up with the childish jibes as well you big bairn. sense of humour failure. keep the irony going too What irony? Aye, because it's really hilarious to keep referring to me as a wanker, tosser, cretin (whether replying to me or someone else), and making up a load of cobblers I've never said. You should consider stand up. Like to answere the point of the timing of Robson's dismissal? Do you back the board on this one or not? It was the same time as Gullits, wasn't it ? Or do you think they should have stuck with Gullit if that was also the "wrong time" This IS your point isn't it ie "planning" Other than that, give it a rest, admit when you are wrong and stop being such a smart arse. Hardly being a smart arse, I seriously don't know what I'm supposed to be wrong about here. Gullit was different, we were further into the season, in a much worse position, and he'd completely lost the dressing room including Alan Shearer. More importantly, Robson was available. If you have inside information that we had a quality manager lined up after Robson, I'm all ears. I think the board ballsed up massive style and it has been downhill ever since. Fwiw I blame Hall more for this than Shepherd, always have.

Norways doing pretty well. "After World War II, Norway experienced rapid economic growth, with the first two decades due to the Norwegian shipping and merchant marine and domestic industrialization, and from the early 1970s, a result of exploiting large oil and natural gas deposits that had been discovered in the North Sea and the Norwegian Sea. Today, Norway ranks as the wealthiest country in the world in monetary value, with the largest capital reserve per capita of any nation. In August 2009 the nation's sovereign wealth fund announced that it owned approximately 1% of all the stocks in the world, presumably referring to publicly traded stocks. Norway is the world’s seventh largest oil exporter and the petroleum industry accounts for around a quarter of its GDP. Following the ongoing financial crisis of 2007–2010, bankers have deemed the Norwegian krone to be one of the most solid currencies in the world." (source: wiki) The population of Norway is less than that of Scotland btw, I'll leave you to work out the relevance of this. theres always a downside with you aint there? glass half empty and all that. you asked for an example of a european, non eu country who are doing well. i gave you one. accept it I'd already stated Norway wasn't a relevant comparison because of its relative size and huge oil reserves man. Wake up. its not exactly a fair question when you have to exclude 2 of the most succesful (if not the most succesful) countries in europe is it now? It's petroleum that makes the difference for Norway though, with a population a tenth our size and therefore the hugely added per capita benefit. If they didn't have oil, they'd joining the EU (like Sweden) or be an incredibly backward race of whale killers. Pointless comparison.

No. Because it would be suicide for a larger country not to be in the EU, that's the point I'm trying to make. We can't exist in isolation in the new millennia. you keep saying that but can you explain why not? genuine question btw Because the EU accounts for 60% of our imports and exports (iirc, feel free to correct me). There's a trend towards globalisation which means if you're not part of a huge trading block you're basically fucked. I'm not an economist btw, so can't really add much more than that without researching it which is a bit pointless, but I'm fairly sure this is the basic belief of nearly all economists and policy makers, and why only fringe parties without a hope of getting elected seriously propose we should exit the EU. If it were feasible, I think the tories would adopt it as a policy because it certainly seems popular.

correct, it also shows that the Halls were instrumental in the running of the club [of course they must have been] but that still won't stop cretins like Renton to continue blaming one person who had less than 30% of shares taking the blame for everything. Not exactly the sort of view smart lads should be spouting..... WRONG. I've always blamed Douglas Hall as much as Shepherd and have always made my dislike of him more vocal. Feel free to prove otherwise. Keep up with the childish jibes as well you big bairn. sense of humour failure. keep the irony going too What irony? Aye, because it's really hilarious to keep referring to me as a wanker, tosser, cretin (whether replying to me or someone else), and making up a load of cobblers I've never said. You should consider stand up. Like to answere the point of the timing of Robson's dismissal? Do you back the board on this one or not?

correct, it also shows that the Halls were instrumental in the running of the club [of course they must have been] but that still won't stop cretins like Renton to continue blaming one person who had less than 30% of shares taking the blame for everything. Not exactly the sort of view smart lads should be spouting..... WRONG. I've always blamed Douglas Hall as much as Shepherd and have always made my dislike of him more vocal. Feel free to prove otherwise. Keep up with the childish jibes as well you big bairn.

"planning".......... according to wankers like Renton and Baggio a few years ago, this was the key to a golden future the likes of which Fat Fred and the Halls had never delivered You could not make it up if you tried. Talking bollocks and comparing me to Baggio now, nice one . All I said was it would have made sense to plan for Robson's replacement, rather than sack him 5 games into a season with the transfer window shut and no replacement, hence ending up with Souness. See, this is an area I have mentioned before, at the time, and was roundly condemned by clever dicks like you, but I was and still am correct, when you harped on about this "planning" business. The ONLY thing that matter is getting a manager who gets results ie knows what he is doing. Did you say the same thing when Gullit was replaced by Sir Bob a handful of games into the season ie "bad planning" You spout complete bollocks as usual Renton. i think renton's post is spot on tbh. don't sack a gem of a manager like robson when there isn't a better alternative. i think even as fat fred's biggest fan, you would admit that he got that one wrong. souness replacing sbr for me marked the beginning of our current plight. excacerbated by the fact that fat fred backed him to the hilt. hmmm.....well, I remember - at the time - the team being booed for finishing 5th in the league and a growing feeling that Sir Bob was starting to get things wrong and needed replaced. Still, I expect some people will try and deny this is true. His point is about timing and "planning", not the quality of the manager. MY point is about the quality of the manager, there is no "bad time" to get a quality manager. Of course there is no bad time to get a quality manager, why can't you see though that the timing of Robson's dismissal didn't make that possible? Unless you actually think Souness was a quality manager, which is pretty much what you said on here at the time. Speaks volumes for the Halls/Shepherds/your judgement does that.

No. Because it would be suicide for a larger country not to be in the EU, that's the point I'm trying to make. We can't exist in isolation in the new millennia. yawn Global politics, what a boring subject. Tell you what LM, why don't you provide us with some real interest by talking about how right you were over the Halls and Shepherds, how N-O misses you terribly (although you brilliantly have acquired two log ins), or how University is all about tweed jacketed lefty intellectuals brainwashing their students. Again. You big bitter bairn. you still placed in the "centre of politics" ? What a tool. Tell you what Renton, why don't you flounce off and stop talking to me like you keep saying you will ....... *Sigh* Why don't you grow up ffs?

I'd think that was rubbish Parky. Americans (on average) are amongst the biggest consumers of healthcare in the world, they spend twice as much as their GDP on healthcare as we do (with no better results). I would think rationalizing their system to something resembling the NHS or most other European countries would result in massive job losses. Not that that would be a bad thing, particularly for the middle men. Seems a bit strange you're advocating this anyway giving your views on medicine?

Well don't be shy, Beaverly, do enlighten us Ha ha, I've just looked it up. Mind you don't peg it after TR has pegged you Snakey, your heart might give out. Sounds decidedly 'south of the river' stuff. Nowt I'd be interested in, then Wasn't TR interested in the Munro transfer at one stage? t Ach, she's tried everything man. Munro Trans, Filching (or whatever it's called), Dogging on Salcombe beach. You name it, she's done it. Let's face it, any chick that fucks a man with grubby finger nails and stinks of oil will try anything. 'Beaverly' made me chuckle though Snakey I take it you've worked out what pegging means now? Shouldnt ask I know, but what is the Munro Transfer? By the way Renton, I'm almost sure I wasnt interested in it!! I have now learnt more terms Playing the innocent eh? Here's a reminder from the urban dictionary (sorry for the Americanisms). Nice.

"planning".......... according to wankers like Renton and Baggio a few years ago, this was the key to a golden future the likes of which Fat Fred and the Halls had never delivered You could not make it up if you tried. Talking bollocks and comparing me to Baggio now, nice one . All I said was it would have made sense to plan for Robson's replacement, rather than sack him 5 games into a season with the transfer window shut and no replacement, hence ending up with Souness. I would have thought this would have been universally agreed with but apparently not. Of course, at the time you thought Souness was a good appointment, didn't you? You big bairn.

No. Because it would be suicide for a larger country not to be in the EU, that's the point I'm trying to make. We can't exist in isolation in the new millennia. yawn Global politics, what a boring subject. Tell you what LM, why don't you provide us with some real interest by talking about how right you were over the Halls and Shepherds, how N-O misses you terribly (although you brilliantly have acquired two log ins), or how University is all about tweed jacketed lefty intellectuals brainwashing their students. Again. You big bitter bairn.

Well don't be shy, Beaverly, do enlighten us Ha ha, I've just looked it up. Mind you don't peg it after TR has pegged you Snakey, your heart might give out. Sounds decidedly 'south of the river' stuff. Nowt I'd be interested in, then Wasn't TR interested in the Munro transfer at one stage? t Ach, she's tried everything man. Munro Trans, Filching (or whatever it's called), Dogging on Salcombe beach. You name it, she's done it. Let's face it, any chick that fucks a man with grubby finger nails and stinks of oil will try anything.

Well don't be shy, Beaverly, do enlighten us Ha ha, I've just looked it up. Mind you don't peg it after TR has pegged you Snakey, your heart might give out. Sounds decidedly 'south of the river' stuff. Nowt I'd be interested in, then Wasn't TR interested in the Munro transfer at one stage?