Renton

Because IMHO I think it takes more than that to judge whether someone is up to the job. That's all. As for being established top 6 under Robson, I think I'm right in saying that in his last 3 seasons we got 70-odd, 60-odd and 50-odd points, in that order. We might have been top 6, but we were very much on the slide before Souness came along. 69560[/snapback] So you would have had us relegated with Gullit then? Or do you think he would have pulled us around?

No it begins with A - Arrogance based on history. 69543[/snapback] So history is more important than the manager? How do you explain Souness's dismal record at Liverpool then? 69548[/snapback] Mourinho has proved that ability (and money) is more important but Liverpools annual expectations ARE based on their history of dominance. They have a bloody-minded "we should win it" which takes absolutely no account of money. manager or other teams quality. On Souness reasonable scousers point to his taking over an ageing squad and miss the rise of Man U. 69557[/snapback] Reasonable because their views coincide with yours? 90% of them would disagree with you I'm sure, their fall from grace was pretty disasterous by anyone's standards. Funny how Souness's defenders always blame his predecessor (be it Dalglish or Robson) who were relatively successful rather than Souness himself. The success of a football club has EVERYTHING to do with the manager - even small clubs can prosper under the right management (not as common now granted, but we are not a small club). Your attitude that we are doomed to failure because of our past strikes me as defeatist in the extreme - with the right management there is no reason we couldn't at least compete with the top 3. There should be absolutely no excuses, for God's sake, Souness is being paid a fortune and for what?

No it begins with A - Arrogance based on history. 69543[/snapback] So history is more important than the manager? How do you explain Souness's dismal record at Liverpool then?

That's just bollocks. There are no "Souness lovers" (apart from me, obviously) and no one will celebrate the fact that we don't get relegated. Or demand another season for the bloke if that's all we achieve. 69510[/snapback] The expectations have been lowered though Gemmill, otherwise how is he still here after last season? What's acceptable to you again - 6th place and no silverware? Less than what Robson achieved with less money anyway. 69514[/snapback] I expect us to qualify for Europe this season, so I don't think expectations have necessarily been lowered, as I never expected us to qualify for the Champions' League. He's still here after last season because it's ridiculous to give someone less than a season to prove themselves. 69527[/snapback] You don't think it is reasonable to expect CL qualification with the money spent, considering the squad Souness inherited (the best ever apparently) and our previous placings? COnsidering the league now is undoubtedly one of the weakest ever bar Chelsea? As for your second point, it was ridiculous to give him the job in the first place. Once again I could mention Gullit, but you conveniently seem to forget about him. 69532[/snapback] How have I conveniently forgotten Gullit? I just assumed that seen as we weren't discussing him I could get away without mentioning his name tbh. And no I don't think it's reasonable to EXPECT CL Qualification. I didn't think it was reasonable to expect it under Robson either. It was great when it happened, but I never thought that we'd all of a sudden made it and could expect to do it every season, and I think you'd have to be a bit daft to think that way. 69534[/snapback] I mention Gullit to show your theory that one season in charge is never enough is pure bullshit, unless you would have been happy to stick with him for a further year. You've always evaded this point in the past. Amazing that we have the second biggest fan base in the league and certainly have spent more than anyone other than Chelsea, and you don't expect CL qualification. Liverpool do. Tell me, what's the difference between us (hint: it begins with M)?

Have you mathematicians taken into account the 3 games before £28m was spent? 69477[/snapback] Of course But come on! No club (with the exception of Chelsea, who are in a league of their own) has spent more money on new players in the last year than we have. Are shit performances and 10th place a fair return on investment? 69480[/snapback] No but I think absences have been a factor (though too easily stated as well). We need a run with the best 11/12 out to properly judge imo though I accept that the squad should be better. 69486[/snapback] How often does it happen that a team is having its first XI available for selection? Newcastle cannot cope with injuries, especially they cannot cope with the absence of just a single player. IIRC it's 6 points out of 27 from games without Michael Owen. 69531[/snapback] A very worrying stat. It's bad enough to be a one man team, but when that player will invariably miss 50% of your games......

That's just bollocks. There are no "Souness lovers" (apart from me, obviously) and no one will celebrate the fact that we don't get relegated. Or demand another season for the bloke if that's all we achieve. 69510[/snapback] The expectations have been lowered though Gemmill, otherwise how is he still here after last season? What's acceptable to you again - 6th place and no silverware? Less than what Robson achieved with less money anyway. 69514[/snapback] I expect us to qualify for Europe this season, so I don't think expectations have necessarily been lowered, as I never expected us to qualify for the Champions' League. He's still here after last season because it's ridiculous to give someone less than a season to prove themselves. 69527[/snapback] You don't think it is reasonable to expect CL qualification with the money spent, considering the squad Souness inherited (the best ever apparently) and our previous placings? COnsidering the league now is undoubtedly one of the weakest ever bar Chelsea? As for your second point, it was ridiculous to give him the job in the first place. Once again I could mention Gullit, but you conveniently seem to forget about him.

Got to admit I'm kind of hearing the music from the Hovis ad in some of these posts!

Well yes, I conceded with Craig of all people there is no point in sacking him now without a really good replacement, but should one become available (like Hitzfeld), I don't think anyone would object to cutting Souness loose now, would they? Either way, Shepherd has to start looking for a replacement now.

That's just bollocks. There are no "Souness lovers" (apart from me, obviously) and no one will celebrate the fact that we don't get relegated. Or demand another season for the bloke if that's all we achieve. 69510[/snapback] The expectations have been lowered though Gemmill, otherwise how is he still here after last season? What's acceptable to you again - 6th place and no silverware? Less than what Robson achieved with less money anyway.

What's that based on?

I'm not saying anyone should change their mind, you rotter! 69467[/snapback] Oooo...you cad! Winning is GREAT, and fans like to savour the moment rather that put a dampner on it. Even Renton. 69495[/snapback] I'm in a win win situation tbh. If we win, I'm happy. If we lose, I can taunt people I don't know over the internet.

He didn't play that much though did he? 69490[/snapback] Something like 25 appearances off the top of my head, so he had slightly less chance of getting injured but his not playing wasn't down to his availability. 69492[/snapback] I know, a lot were from the bench though, so there's less chance of getting injured etc. I just think he's been unlucky since he arrived here with injuries rather 'picking and choosing' his games. He's had injury problems throughout his career. 69494[/snapback] He's undoubtedly an injury prone player. And this has to be taken into account when considering his value to our team. He's never scored 20 goals in the premiership, and maybe never will as a result, which is a shame.

Is that based on a particular formula or just an arbitrary number? 69469[/snapback] Mine was simple - £35M (net spend) / 8 And wtf is happening with Luque when Ameobi is keeping him out the team?

Just like the Souness backers go quiet when we have a loss and piss poor performance, like against Wigan you mean? I have been delighted by the last two wins (although all the match reports have suggested we were fortunate against West Ham), but I still want Souness out. We are still 10th, and are now essentially a one man team, and that man is injured too much. But I am sick of the argument; my case will be proven in May after what will have been a bitterly disappointing year. If I am wrong I will be glad, but I don't think I will be. 69443[/snapback] I don't remember going quiet after Wigan. 69444[/snapback] Well, I wasn't here then so I wouldn't know, but I have noticed you are pretty slow to post on this forum when we are in a run of poor results. I've almost completely stopped posting here as things seem to be at a complete impasse regarding those who would still give Souness time and those that wouldn't. Plus, I never comment on a match I haven't seen in real life or on the telly (in full). 69449[/snapback] That's bollocks about me not posting when we're on a bad run like. Nice try though. And I know you've stopped posting - you're one of the "vociferous Souness-Outers" I was referring to. 69451[/snapback] Did I post after Chelsea, Wigan or Villa, or any other recent matches we have been shit? No, I don't think so. 69458[/snapback] Are you biting though? Yes, I do think so. 69460[/snapback] Aye, I thought it was a fishing trip. Catch 22 on whether to respond or not tbh, you bastid!

Just like the Souness backers go quiet when we have a loss and piss poor performance, like against Wigan you mean? I have been delighted by the last two wins (although all the match reports have suggested we were fortunate against West Ham), but I still want Souness out. We are still 10th, and are now essentially a one man team, and that man is injured too much. But I am sick of the argument; my case will be proven in May after what will have been a bitterly disappointing year. If I am wrong I will be glad, but I don't think I will be. 69443[/snapback] I don't remember going quiet after Wigan. 69444[/snapback] Well, I wasn't here then so I wouldn't know, but I have noticed you are pretty slow to post on this forum when we are in a run of poor results. I've almost completely stopped posting here as things seem to be at a complete impasse regarding those who would still give Souness time and those that wouldn't. Plus, I never comment on a match I haven't seen in real life or on the telly (in full). 69449[/snapback] That's bollocks about me not posting when we're on a bad run like. Nice try though. And I know you've stopped posting - you're one of the "vociferous Souness-Outers" I was referring to. 69451[/snapback] Did I post after Chelsea, Wigan or Villa, or any other recent matches we have been shit? No, I don't think so.

So that works out at over £4 million a point so far does it?

Just like the Souness backers go quiet when we have a loss and piss poor performance, like against Wigan you mean? I have been delighted by the last two wins (although all the match reports have suggested we were fortunate against West Ham), but I still want Souness out. We are still 10th, and are now essentially a one man team, and that man is injured too much. But I am sick of the argument; my case will be proven in May after what will have been a bitterly disappointing year. If I am wrong I will be glad, but I don't think I will be. 69443[/snapback] I don't remember going quiet after Wigan. 69444[/snapback] Well, I wasn't here then so I wouldn't know, but I have noticed you are pretty slow to post on this forum when we are in a run of poor results. I've almost completely stopped posting here as things seem to be at a complete impasse regarding those who would still give Souness time and those that wouldn't. Plus, I never comment on a match I haven't seen in real life or on the telly (in full).

Neither are a patch on the torah tbh. 69437[/snapback] Isn't the Torah just the first five books of the OT of something? 69440[/snapback] Are you trying to show me up again? I thought it was the Jews equivalent of the Bible, more or less the OT bit of the bible, but I might be wrong.

Just like the Souness backers go quiet when we have a loss and piss poor performance, like against Wigan you mean? I have been delighted by the last two wins (although all the match reports have suggested we were fortunate against West Ham), but I still want Souness out. We are still 10th, and are now essentially a one man team, and that man is injured too much. But I am sick of the argument; my case will be proven in May after what will have been a bitterly disappointing year. If I am wrong I will be glad, but I don't think I will be.

Neither are a patch on the torah tbh.

Not just being pedantic here but weren't they evacuees during the Second World War? I'm just confirming this is the case to make sure I'm not losing my marbles as I read all the books when I was a bairn. 69389[/snapback] You might be right, they were 2nd world war evacuees in the film, although I don't remember that in the book; I thought they looked and acted like they were from the Edwardian era, from memory. The old professor was the original character from Victorian times, called Eustace iirc. 69412[/snapback] I think the old Professor is Digory or something (i.e. the lad out of 'The Magician's Nephew'). He brought an apple back from Narnia which grows into a tree which is then cut down and is made into the wardrobe which becomes a gateway to Narnia in 'The Lion....' . Eustace is the horrible nephew (of Edmund, Lucy et al) from 'The Voyage of the Dawn Treader' who truns out to be a 'good egg' in the end. Not that I read all the books about 3 times when I was younger or anything. Dweeb tbh. 69423[/snapback] Shit, you're right. My Narnia ignorance has been exposed.

Anything by Jackie Collins is excellent tbh.

Lewis was clearly a man ahead of his time, the last battle is beginning to feel quite prophetic now. 69415[/snapback] Is this the A-Level English thread or what? 69416[/snapback] I was 9 last time I read the Narnia books. But it probably does pass for A level now....

Lewis was clearly a man ahead of his time, the last battle is beginning to feel quite prophetic now.

Not just being pedantic here but weren't they evacuees during the Second World War? I'm just confirming this is the case to make sure I'm not losing my marbles as I read all the books when I was a bairn. 69389[/snapback] You might be right, they were 2nd world war evacuees in the film, although I don't remember that in the book; I thought they looked and acted like they were from the Edwardian era, from memory. The old professor was the original character from Victorian times, called Eustace iirc.