manc-mag

Instructive stuff this. A million miles away from some old lunatic barking: "WHERES THE CARROLL MONEY?" with every other post.

A particularly nice touch and one which set the tone, as it was in the same spirit of reconciliation I telephoned Gene Clark earlier today to suggest we let bygones be bygones. Sadly it just rang out.

Restores the faith when it gets down to this sort of debate and tbf you've contributed to that more than most. It's those sorts of headline figures that should be setting the terms of reference for debates about next season, 'progress' and 'ambition' etc etc. Good stuff.

An absolute peach of a post.

Aye, well put. I'm satisfied with the full and frank apology I've received from him though on a personal level. Once again I'd like to take this opportunity to commend him for admitting where he was utterly wrong this season and we all move forward together, with an eye on European adventures to come.

superb

I agree with absolutely all of that btw. The irony is Ashley actually could compete if he wanted to. He is one of the very very very few people who could. He'd have to underwrite it though and if it didnt work it would cost him money. Either directly or on re-sale. I personally wouldn't lose a great deal of sleep over that as it's not my money. That's not the point though. He no doubt does and most people in that very very very small group of potential owners probably would too. Because it's their money. Leazes is wont to bang on about putting his money into the club via his ST and in so doing he elevates the importance of the club's income - ie the fans financing of the club. "We're a big club, we should be competing with x, y and z" etc etc. This underpins much of what he says. In the same breath he also advocates going bankrupt (or going to the point of bankruptcy) if that's what it takes to get success. Now the point about bankruptcy is neither here nor there in a sense, Leazes is absolutely right that most clubs dont go bankrupt, and he thinks in saying that he's proved a point, but that in and of itself is a red herring. The point is even if you get near to bankruptcy it means you've exceeded your income massively, so in this sense he's simultaneously exalting an approach which places the absolute minimal importance on the club's income. Ergo the two thing's he harps on about are utterly contradictory and once again what he's saying boils down to nothing more than an old man shouting "spend more money" and other slogans of that ilk. At the end of the day, it's the difference between an opinion and an argument and we all know it. The man in the pub can have an opinion (and almost invariably does), but it doesn't stop his pants reeking of piss.

I think it's at least germane to the issue of who exactly can compete in modern football. ie the futility of banging on about what the last lot did/achieved etc. It doesn't provide a blueprint for future success so why waste time pretending it does. We're trying to deal with what's do-able in the here and now. If in fact there's only a very very small pool of potential owners who could make the club compete at the very top, then that's a piece of information that should check you before you decide to try and run down what's been achieved this season. That last point not aimed at you btw, obviously.

Now the dust is settling on the season I applaud Leazes for his comprehensive repudiation of several utterly defective predictions. At the end of the day he’s thrown his hands in the air and admitted where he’s been wrong. This has made for more mature debate on his part, and if I may, a welcome change for the better. Ultimately, there’s no need for him to remain saddled with these flawed forecasts and we can all look forwards instead of back. He’s thrown himself on the tender mercies of the forum and the forum in it’s wisdom has said: “Yes! We don’t know much about football; you know much and have much to teach us (this last year aside)” and has welcomed him back with open arms. I join Gemmill in recognising Leazes' full and frank admissions of error and we all move forward together.

Deadman's backside isn't going to feel itself.

Ouch!

Liquid football

Yeah good post, Rention. For me the thing Leazes consistently gets wrong is this notion that if the fans thought (an appointment) was a good idea at the time, the board were therefore automatically right to have made it. It's a complete nonsense of course. For one, fans are complete idiots. Leazes himself is a superb individual example of this, but the collective one I always cite is Man U fans wanting rid of Ferguson on two separate occasions. Just before the Cup Winners Cup and just after losing the title to Leeds) There was a complete groundswell for him to go, but the board showed foresight, told the fans to go and fuck themselves, they were backing their man. The rest is history as we know. Man U's fans have benefited from being ignored by their board ever since. This epitomises the importance of a strong board. Just as Keegan was a superb appointment by S&H the first time around, they take the entire credit for this. Conversely, the fans take none of the credit whatever, even if it's fair to say pretty much every Newcastle fan on the face of the earth approved of the appointment. It's an irrelevance to the appointment itself. That's why when Shepherd appointed Roeder on the basis that he was "giving in to fan pressure" you knew that by that stage we had the exact opposite of a strong board and all that it needs to be. That's quite apart from the fact he was just being a big fat liar and making it up as he went along by that stage anyway. I'm encouraged by Leazes' recent about turn and I'm glad he's finally thrown his hands up and admitted to his innumerable flawed predictions, it shows maturity that's sadly been lacking these last five years or more, but I'd like to see him deal with this final stage of his rehabilitation. A board needs to have foresight. It needs to set standards. It needs to be more insightful than it's fans. It needs to demand absolute commitment from it's servants. Renton's post is the right balance for me. A large number of S&H's appointments were a shambles. They were getting increasingly rancid. Ashley probably takes the prize for most horrendous individual appointment of all, but now they're showing better thinking and a progression that you can chart. That seems to have occurred against a backdrop of proactive rather than reactive player recruitment, and a unified policy in the marketplace, meaning we don't get landed with dickheads looking for a gravy train to line their retirement nest while having nothing but contempt for the club. In a single sentence, it's about learning from your mistakes rather than repeating your mistakes. And that is something Leazes would benefit from more than most.

Nice to see they improved access on receipt of CT's membership forms.

When all's said and done it's gratifying to see Leazes looking to the future and the permutations of European football next season (whichever guise it may yet take), instead of tearing himself apart over his numerous flawed predictions for this year. As a mature poster, he's been able to admit he's been wrong and therefore that internal conflict at least should now be at an end for him, meaning we can all look forward to some more sensible output as a result. Good man.

Flair, can you bring back the old sig please?

yeah I don't think anyone claims any kind of clairvoyance at all, just a few voices saying it would give us something resembling a blank canvas and from that point onward you reap what you sow. No great claims, just a desire to be rid of the detritus of what had clearly failed as a model. As it happens it's been massive (and completely unexpected), but by stripping it all back I think we've given ourselves the best opportunity to continue building on what's been done so far. Really hope we can take that chance too.

I'd take Bale (just to shut LBT up ffs) but not Modric. Good.

I'll tell you what its more to do with like. We've got players other clubs want for a change rather than dickheads who nee 'top' club would touch with a barge pole. Good.

He's Gray, man, I'm Grey Man. Got it?

I don't think we've got the mugs/laughing stock/gravy train stigma anymore and I'll bet we're not on any agents' bulk email list for their final payday/retirement fund clients either. Good.

For the most part, it's defenders too, and they traditionally cost less than £35 million strikers, to pluck a figure completely at random. Encouraging.

Think that's just about exactly where I stand too in terms of how it's stacked up/enjoyment/sense of fulfilment. Looking forward to next season for the 3rd season on the belt now. Canny.

I think it helped and I thought it could at the time. Not that it was guaranteed by any means, but that it could have that benefit if the club dealt with it with the right attitude and saw it as an opportunity. Also, I don't think we "missed out on anything" in the meantime. Our trophy haul is precisely nil for over 40 years and so relegation only affected one trophy we were eligible to enter (and had no prospect of wining anyway) for a total of 1 year. I didnt lose much sleep over that funnily enough. It's different if you're a team which has a winning pedigree, but we don't. We have to work hard to establish one, and that's best done from scratch. It was used as an opportunity and it's been taken.