Gejon

He must have some contacts because the rate he picks up random players who come in and perform is pretty regular. Unless he plays a lot of FM. So you just presume he has all these contacts then? How many of these unknown players has he gone out and scouted or have they been brought to the club by their agent for a trial because they know Sam will slip them a brown envelope if the player is any good. Pretty much the same way I assume Wenger has contacts. Allardyce must spend a hell of a lot in these brown envelopes if all his deals are done that way.

I'm not glossing over it, he's spent biggish money on two players, one of them he had on loan before completing the deal, that doesn't mean every signing he spends big money on will be great, as I've stated above all managers who spend big over time make the odd flop signing, Allardyce won't be any different. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here. The point is you make out he will crumble when given a decent budget and my point is the few times he has been given money to spend he has spent it very wisely. You have made excuses as to why he did will spending that money which suggests to me you are just looking at any possible reason to discredit Allardyce in anything he may have done well at. Where have I said he will crumble? Ok you make out he will do the same as Curbishley and have no idea how to spend it. Was it Curbishley who wasted the money or was it Dowie? (geniune question btw). I never said he'll do the same as Curbishley, I said there is nothing to suggest he won't, he's only signed one player for more than £5 million and that was a "no brainer" because Anelka is a proven quality player. Your whole point was that Houllier had signed flops in the transfer market, I pointed out that any manager that deals with big money transfers will sign the odd flop here and there, when Allardyce comes here it's 99% that not all of his signing will work out, that's the way it is. I'm not sure what you're on about with Dowie as my point about Curbishley is referring to his time at West Ham. I edited the point about Dowie as I read your post wrong the first time round. If Curbishley looks to have kept West Ham up then I don't think the hammers fans will look down on his signings that much (although Upson was a complete waste). Yes I said Houllier had signed a lot of flops because he has (it wasn't "my whole point either", the way Thompers was talking it seemed like it was suggesting he hadn't. I wasn't slating Houllier just stating he had made some mistakes as other managers have. The fact you brought up Curbishley to me says you are suggesting Allardyce may do the same, bascially having a dig for something that hasn't happened. Allardyce probably has one of the best success rates in the premiership, he has a lot of contacts and its not his fault he hasn't been given the opportunity very often to spend any real money but on the few occasions he has he has done well. He may do the same, he may not, until he's given the chance we don't know how he'll do, I'm not knocking him for something that hasn't happened I'm pointing out it could go either way. Allardyce has the best success rates at what? Also what are all these contacts he has? He must have some contacts because the rate he picks up random players who come in and perform is pretty regular. Unless he plays a lot of FM.

I'm not glossing over it, he's spent biggish money on two players, one of them he had on loan before completing the deal, that doesn't mean every signing he spends big money on will be great, as I've stated above all managers who spend big over time make the odd flop signing, Allardyce won't be any different. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here. The point is you make out he will crumble when given a decent budget and my point is the few times he has been given money to spend he has spent it very wisely. You have made excuses as to why he did will spending that money which suggests to me you are just looking at any possible reason to discredit Allardyce in anything he may have done well at. Where have I said he will crumble? Ok you make out he will do the same as Curbishley and have no idea how to spend it. Was it Curbishley who wasted the money or was it Dowie? (geniune question btw). I never said he'll do the same as Curbishley, I said there is nothing to suggest he won't, he's only signed one player for more than £5 million and that was a "no brainer" because Anelka is a proven quality player. Your whole point was that Houllier had signed flops in the transfer market, I pointed out that any manager that deals with big money transfers will sign the odd flop here and there, when Allardyce comes here it's 99% that not all of his signing will work out, that's the way it is. I'm not sure what you're on about with Dowie as my point about Curbishley is referring to his time at West Ham. I edited the point about Dowie as I read your post wrong the first time round. If Curbishley looks to have kept West Ham up then I don't think the hammers fans will look down on his signings that much (although Upson was a complete waste). Yes I said Houllier had signed a lot of flops because he has (it wasn't "my whole point either", the way Thompers was talking it seemed like it was suggesting he hadn't. I wasn't slating Houllier just stating he had made some mistakes as other managers have. The fact you brought up Curbishley to me says you are suggesting Allardyce may do the same, bascially having a dig for something that hasn't happened. Allardyce probably has one of the best success rates in the premiership, he has a lot of contacts and its not his fault he hasn't been given the opportunity very often to spend any real money but on the few occasions he has he has done well.

Alex hit the nail on the head though, its kids who use the stuff and you just know this advert will appeal to them (and stuuuudents).

I'm not glossing over it, he's spent biggish money on two players, one of them he had on loan before completing the deal, that doesn't mean every signing he spends big money on will be great, as I've stated above all managers who spend big over time make the odd flop signing, Allardyce won't be any different. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here. The point is you make out he will crumble when given a decent budget and my point is the few times he has been given money to spend he has spent it very wisely. You have made excuses as to why he did will spending that money which suggests to me you are just looking at any possible reason to discredit Allardyce in anything he may have done well at. Where have I said he will crumble? Ok you make out he will do the same as Curbishley and have no idea how to spend it.

The most under the thumb "ladies man" on the net "yes she has gone to bed, lets sneak another 10mins on the net"

I'm not glossing over it, he's spent biggish money on two players, one of them he had on loan before completing the deal, that doesn't mean every signing he spends big money on will be great, as I've stated above all managers who spend big over time make the odd flop signing, Allardyce won't be any different. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here. The point is you make out he will crumble when given a decent budget and my point is the few times he has been given money to spend he has spent it very wisely. You have made excuses as to why he did will spending that money which suggests to me you are just looking at any possible reason to discredit Allardyce in anything he may have done well at.

Still think Allardyce was a huge coup for Bolton and Allardyce has shown when given money he knows how to use it. You say Anelka was a "no brainer" but Allardyce still went out and got him. I would say there were a few players who have been "no brainers" that we have passed up in the past and regretted it. You can try and gloss it up as much as you like but he has spent well whenever given the chance. He might not make a success of every signing but he has at least shown he knows what the team needs and makes the right choice.

Marmite? I would say more people hate this product

Toontastic needs thread moderation, what a spastic

Agreed. We get it. Exactly, its got to the point where the barrel has well and truely been scraped for excuses to have a dig at Big Sam. Its getting silly, what next?

...And Wenger, Ferguson and Mourinho. When you have big money to spend then chances are you will have the odd big money flop signing, you make up for it when you sign cheap players who go on to be worth a fair bit more money. Allardyce hasn't spent any money at Bolton so he isn't going to make any flop signings, Anelka was a no brainer and Diouf had already been at Bolton on loan so he knew what he was getting, the situation is similar to Curbishley at Charlton where he had to work on a budget yet when he went to West Ham he didn't have a clue how to spend it. There is nothing to say Allardyce won't be the same. Think its unfair to dismiss his signings on the few times he has had money to spend. If Anelka was such a no brainer then I can't see why numerous other more high profile clubs were scrambling to sign him and Diouf was a big risk. He also wanted to get Sorin but the club wouldn't pay the wages he wanted, do you think he would have been a shit signing? Or a "no brainer". Both have paid off, but if you want to dismiss anything good he has done there is no point in trying to have a sensible discussion.

Getting people to remember a brand is the objective, getting the advert to be soo catchy that people actually mimic it is even better. The fact that kids are obviously "doing" the advert and people know exactly what they are doing means the campaign has been very effective no matter how much you hate it. I must admit I tried something due to peoples constant disgust, talking about it all the time and the product in question is now one of my favorite brands. Im sure I am not the only one to have become curious and tried something out due to people constantly slagging it off.

Sven has shown that he's still capable of managing a team, look at how England have done since he left. Club football is different, but he's watched that many premiership games over the last few years that he's hardly been away from the scene playing golf and he wouldn't be walking into unknown territory. Houllier got the chop at Liverpool before really being given opportunity to turn it around. He had the health issues around the same time which did affect things, and he's gone on to prove that he's still a quality manager. He made some absolute bargain signings at Liverpool. He signed players like Hyypia, Henchoz, Risse for nearly nothing, and they went on to become an integral part of Liverpool's success. I think his record in the transfer market is better than people make out. I do rate Allardyce highly I just feel he's got a lot to prove in comparison to the other two. Got to look a bit further than just Sven leaving to see why England have gone to shit. McLaren isn't exactly a top draw manager but I see your point about still being in and around English football. Still can see the risk though and maybe why he wasn't appointed and I definitely think the foreigner aspect will have come into play with Sven and Houllier. Houllier has made some good signings and some bad ones. Quite similar to SBR.

You think punditry is more lucrative than management?

Very clever though.

Yeah winning the treble was the SHITTIEST thing he could do 2 second rate trophies. Good effort for the FA though. Some of his signings were appauling. And some were fantastic... Then again Ferguson paid £28m for Veron so if he touts himself for the job we'll snub him.. Veron was the best midfielder in the world (mabye except for Zidane) at that point. So which of Houlliers signings have been floptastic? Is that sarcastic?

Expensive or not, he wants something we cannot pay.

In your opinion. Do you not think that Sven not managing at club level for 7 years means he could be a bit more risky than a manager who has done consistantly well during that time at a Premiership club? Houllier is a lot less of a risk and I would be more than happy to see him here, my point isn't that he wouldn't be an excellent appointment, my point is that I can see why he is seen as more of a risk. Wrongly or rightly he was sacked from Liverpool because they felt his performances were slipping, he has gone on to do well in his next job but again its at a team that was pretty much set up to achieve what he has achieved. Some even feel he failed to get the best out of them in the champions league. I am not really fussed, all 3 would make me happy as they are good managers and a MASSIVE improvement over anything we have had since SBr.

Houllier was on his way down when he left Liverpool and Sven hasn't managed a club since Lazio in 2000 where he spent a hell of a lot of money. At the moment we are a long way from winning trophies, we need someone who can build us back up and take us back to Europe. I don't see why Allardyce can't do that just because he didn't win anything at Bolton or take them far in Europe. Is Souness a better bet than Allardyce? He was won quite a few trophies and done fairly well in Europe over the years. Bolton have consistantly over achieved and its all down to Allardyce, its pretty closed minded to suggest he won't be able to take us up a level or two just because he has always been at a small club (a club that would be a hell of a lot smaller if it wasn't for him). The whole 'Souness won stuff' arguement doesn't wash. Souness has had a mixture of success and failures. Houllier and Sven have succeeded in every job they've been in so it's not comparable. Well the argument against Allardyce is he hasn't won stuff, Houllier has been at bigger clubs and so has Sven. I think its fairly obvious that Allardyce is the smaller risk and have given my reasons. If you don't agree fair enough.

Houllier was on his way down when he left Liverpool and Sven hasn't managed a club since Lazio in 2000 where he spent a hell of a lot of money. At the moment we are a long way from winning trophies, we need someone who can build us back up and take us back to Europe. I don't see why Allardyce can't do that just because he didn't win anything at Bolton or take them far in Europe. Is Souness a better bet than Allardyce? He was won quite a few trophies and done fairly well in Europe over the years. Bolton have consistantly over achieved and its all down to Allardyce, its pretty closed minded to suggest he won't be able to take us up a level or two just because he has always been at a small club (a club that would be a hell of a lot smaller if it wasn't for him).

No I am saying that just because manager A has trophies and manager B doesn't it doesn't always mean that manager A is the best choice. It was more a comparison between Allardyce and Souness if anything.

Allardyce is the only one on their way up in English football. His key skills are organisation, getting the best out of underperforming players and playing effective football. He knows how to build a good squad on a small budget and this is exactly what we need right now. I would be very happy with either of them but as said I think Allardyce is the smallest gamble. Souness had shown a good winning pedigree aswell. What Allardyce has done at Bolton is a fantastic achievement, he stayed to continue but now feels he has gone as far as he can with them and wants to progress in his career. I don't think we should just look at trophies when it comes to this appointment because like I said before Souness has quite an impressive record there.

Allardyce is a very good option for what we need right now. Sven hasn't managed at club football level for many years now and was on £5m a season when managing England. Houllier is a good manager but I could see why he and Sven would be seen as bigger risks than Allardyce. I think for once Shepherd has taken the sensible option.

Getting desperate for excuses to have a dig at Allardyce now! Basically what you are saying is because Shepherd has wanted Allardyce as our manager for a while now its the wrong appointment? So if he just sacked Roeder and got another Souness in it would make more sense? hmmm