Toonpack

Ok, so you want us to challenge the likes of Liverpool and Spurs (I'm presuming this is an "at least" scenario"). Ok, now I have a frame of reference to your expectations. Do you think the current 1st team is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure) Do you think the current squad is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure) unlike posters such as mancmag, and others, I'll give my view. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But I'm right, as always. The current team is not as good as a year ago. The current squad is not as good as a year ago. The club is, in the long run, heading downwards, the expectations etc have dived. Why do you think the commercial profile and crowds are down ? Ok, I'll give my player by player comparison to explain why I think the 1st team is stronger than it was last year Krul - Harper Much of a muchness to be honest, although the former has bags of potential and by your own admission looks more capable with crosses Simpson - Simpson I think he's improving, but he's still an average right back Taylor - Taylor Again, I think he's average Premiership, but his confidence is growing as his his understanding with Colo Coloccini - Coloccini Best defender at the club (now) plays well with Taylor and is the best CB to pull on the shirt since Woodgate imo Santon/Raylor - Enrique Raylor is clearly a shit left back, Santon hasn't been seen yet so I can;t really compare. However, Jose Enrique was not only the best defender at the club, he was arguably the best left back in the country and he wouldn't look out of place in any club. Obertan - Barton Barton is a better player, Obertan is a better winger. I don't think Gabriel will keep his place when Marveaux, Ben Arfa and Jonas are all fit and flying. I would say we'll miss Barton's application, he's clearly a good footballer, but I think the midfield is better without him (I'll say why in a bit) Cabaye - Nolan. This is a no brainer, even in 7 games Cabaye is 10 times the player Nolan is. He's fitter, more mobile, more astute with the pass, he works harder and he will give us goal scoring options outside the box. Tiote - Tiote The man is a beast and will grow and grow. He will be better this season than he was last. Jonas - Jonas Spiderman is a good Premiership player, regardless of what some people think, you can't underestimate his contribution. He provides a much needed way of carrying the ball away from defense, he works hard all game, wins so many free-kicks (by fair or foul), corners etc. Best/Ameobi - Ameobi/Lovenkrands Best has had a good start, whether he can continue is a different question. However, The choice between Ameobi and Best is a much more pleasing quandary than Ameobi or Lovenkrands. The latter is finished. He may pop up with the odd cup goal, but I'd rather Sameobi or Vuckic or even Ranger got their chance ahead of him. Ba - Carroll This is tough. Ba looks a good Premier League striker; mobile, physical, decent touch, decent finish. Is he as good as Carroll? only time will tell, personally? I don't think he is. I think Carroll will become a more imposing player than Ba. For this club at this time, obviously I'd rather Carroll were still here, alongside Ba, but as it stands we've lost 1 15 goal a season striker and replaced him with another imo. Overall, we've improved the midfield to such an extent I'd definitely say the squad was stronger. In Cabaye we have a player of genuine quality, and the central pairing has been praised , to me, by fans of all manner of clubs. People are saying that it's the best centre in the premier league. This is why I think that losing Barton and Nolan isn't a death knell. I think when Ben Arfa returns and we have guile to go with the steel in the centre we will genuinely have a top 4 midfield. Up front isn't so great, but then it wasn't great with Carroll and he's not exactly pulling up trees. I'm not just talking about scoring goals, but his overall play has been poor by all accounts. Whereas Ba has been on fire. I truly believe that with the addition of a decent striker at Christmas we'd be the form team again. The defence as individuals aren't spectacular, but we've conceded the fewest number of goals in the English League. That can only be down to hard work on the training fields and astute tactics. Would I have Enrique back? In an instant. However, Santon may well be a good addition. I understand your frustration, but I think you've taken a stance and will now not be swayed from it, regardless of the evidence before you. re: your last statement, I think expectations were dropping even before MA bought the club. Under Shepherd and Halls I didn't automatically assume we'd be challenging for top honours because I saw Chelsea suddenly come into vast sums of money. I saw Wenger's experiment pay off to such a degree it was impossible to imagine that 7 games into a season they'd be floundering so badly. I saw the Man U juggernaut grow stronger with each passing season. The only thing I was sure under the previous regime is we'd spend around £15m in the transfer window. We still finished bottom half of the Premier League under the previous regime roughly as many times as we finished in the top half. When Dalglish took over from Keegan, I expected Champions League, when Gullit took over from Dalglish I expected Europe. When Sir Bobby took over I expected survival. Souness? Relegation. I don't think it's fair to say Newcastle fans' expectations have dropped since Mike Ashley. They've been steadily depressing for a while. Ever since the unblievable highs of Keegan's first reign came crashing down. I also don't think it's fair to say that in reducing our expectations we're being anything less than realistic. You yourself have said that you expect to challenge Spurs and Liverpool, not go for the title. Is this not evidence of your own expectations getting in line with reality? With the league as it is; all the power with the super-rich, Newcastle United simply cannot compete. With or without Shepherd and Hall at the helm. They could spend as much as they could muster, it still would pale in comparison to the half a billion the Etihad Arena has seen grace it's pitch. Half a Billion! But none of this matters, unless you finally, eventually, stop having the same argument everytime you come on here. Excellent post, white bit nails it. There is a definitive "break point" and that as you say is the first Keegan years, after that there were blips or grasps at the heights again, each one not quite as high as the last and each one, not sustained. The sprial was heading down, we rose (a bit higher) and we fell (a bit lower) and that was going only one way. We never did consolidate it or rather, fully capitalise on or continue it, and all the while the game was changing and we were getting poorer and poorer. your man will never get anywhere near the heights of the past regime or anywhere not even close to fulfilling the potential of the football club. Which is the main point that you are unable to grasp, instead accepting 2nd rate standards and expectations on a par with the Blackburns and Boltons. I see you still haven't revised your opinion of Mike Ashley yet, despite saying for months that you would, based on the transfer deadline and how he would show his ambitions for the future success of the club. Take your time. As wouldn't the "latter" previous regime, which is the point you fail to grasp. In fact, my contention (opinion) is that the "latter previous regime" would have taken us to as yet unplumbed and horrific depths. My opinion of MA is what it always was, he's a twat, but I am gratefull for his deep pockets. Please feel free to find where I've said different. Your "Ashley's back pocket" comments amply illustrate your ignorance. Please also feel free to produce evidence that MA has taken even a penny out of the club. When that time comes I'll accept he's profiteering, but he has £52,000,000.01 to go, before he outstrips the "achievements" of the previous regime. Still no Nolan/Barton answer (the question was, for the third or maybe fourth time) Would you have given Nolan/Barton the contract lengths and values that they achieved by their moves. 1. "taken us to unplumbed and horrific depths" is frankly total rubbish. Are you talking about relegation to the 3rd division, 10000 crowds, a failed share issue and bankruptcy ? This is where they found it. If you are going to say such things, back them up with knowledge of the history of the club, rather than wild and irrational statements plucked out of thin air, like most non-supporters do. 2. You said for months that you would re-appraise the ambitions of Mike Ashley AFTER the last transfer deadline, because "he finally had the club in a position to spend". The fact is, he didn't spend, and the money from transfer sales has disappeared. So what exactly is your re-appraisal of his ambitions for the club ? 3. He has a long way to go before matching the european qualifications of the previous regime, indeed, and in view of the fall in attendances, sale of best players, and the fall in profile and overall revenues, it will be a long time coming, if ever. In fact, as he is pocketing huge sums of money WHILE owning the club, can you explain where these ambitions that you claimed would cause you to re-assess his ambitions are going to come from, if he isn't even putting transfer money from the sale of our best players back iinto the purchase of new ones, never mind new ones of a similar calibre or better [which ought to be the case]. 4. The sale of Barton and Nolan ie 2 players and their respective reasons has little relevance, what is important is what the club does with the money received from the sales. I didn't expect you to reply, in fact I don't expect you to ever reply. You are like a few others, not just on here, who have called it all spectacularly wrong and you just haven't got the balls to admit it. Strange that they mostly seem to be people who don't spend their actual cash on the club to support their man and his exciting vision of the future, or however you see semi-permanent obscurity. Red bit - Please provide evidence. Has he reached £52,000,000.01 yet ?? Still no yes or no on Barton/Nolan - would you have paid them the money. How can you now say it's of no relevance, yet harangue the club up for "selling it's best players", which I interpret as you meaning they should not have been sold, which leads me to surmise you would have paid them the money/contracts. Yes or No. I have answered the "my view" question inumerable times.

Ok, so you want us to challenge the likes of Liverpool and Spurs (I'm presuming this is an "at least" scenario"). Ok, now I have a frame of reference to your expectations. Do you think the current 1st team is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure) Do you think the current squad is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure) unlike posters such as mancmag, and others, I'll give my view. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But I'm right, as always. The current team is not as good as a year ago. The current squad is not as good as a year ago. The club is, in the long run, heading downwards, the expectations etc have dived. Why do you think the commercial profile and crowds are down ? Ok, I'll give my player by player comparison to explain why I think the 1st team is stronger than it was last year Krul - Harper Much of a muchness to be honest, although the former has bags of potential and by your own admission looks more capable with crosses Simpson - Simpson I think he's improving, but he's still an average right back Taylor - Taylor Again, I think he's average Premiership, but his confidence is growing as his his understanding with Colo Coloccini - Coloccini Best defender at the club (now) plays well with Taylor and is the best CB to pull on the shirt since Woodgate imo Santon/Raylor - Enrique Raylor is clearly a shit left back, Santon hasn't been seen yet so I can;t really compare. However, Jose Enrique was not only the best defender at the club, he was arguably the best left back in the country and he wouldn't look out of place in any club. Obertan - Barton Barton is a better player, Obertan is a better winger. I don't think Gabriel will keep his place when Marveaux, Ben Arfa and Jonas are all fit and flying. I would say we'll miss Barton's application, he's clearly a good footballer, but I think the midfield is better without him (I'll say why in a bit) Cabaye - Nolan. This is a no brainer, even in 7 games Cabaye is 10 times the player Nolan is. He's fitter, more mobile, more astute with the pass, he works harder and he will give us goal scoring options outside the box. Tiote - Tiote The man is a beast and will grow and grow. He will be better this season than he was last. Jonas - Jonas Spiderman is a good Premiership player, regardless of what some people think, you can't underestimate his contribution. He provides a much needed way of carrying the ball away from defense, he works hard all game, wins so many free-kicks (by fair or foul), corners etc. Best/Ameobi - Ameobi/Lovenkrands Best has had a good start, whether he can continue is a different question. However, The choice between Ameobi and Best is a much more pleasing quandary than Ameobi or Lovenkrands. The latter is finished. He may pop up with the odd cup goal, but I'd rather Sameobi or Vuckic or even Ranger got their chance ahead of him. Ba - Carroll This is tough. Ba looks a good Premier League striker; mobile, physical, decent touch, decent finish. Is he as good as Carroll? only time will tell, personally? I don't think he is. I think Carroll will become a more imposing player than Ba. For this club at this time, obviously I'd rather Carroll were still here, alongside Ba, but as it stands we've lost 1 15 goal a season striker and replaced him with another imo. Overall, we've improved the midfield to such an extent I'd definitely say the squad was stronger. In Cabaye we have a player of genuine quality, and the central pairing has been praised , to me, by fans of all manner of clubs. People are saying that it's the best centre in the premier league. This is why I think that losing Barton and Nolan isn't a death knell. I think when Ben Arfa returns and we have guile to go with the steel in the centre we will genuinely have a top 4 midfield. Up front isn't so great, but then it wasn't great with Carroll and he's not exactly pulling up trees. I'm not just talking about scoring goals, but his overall play has been poor by all accounts. Whereas Ba has been on fire. I truly believe that with the addition of a decent striker at Christmas we'd be the form team again. The defence as individuals aren't spectacular, but we've conceded the fewest number of goals in the English League. That can only be down to hard work on the training fields and astute tactics. Would I have Enrique back? In an instant. However, Santon may well be a good addition. I understand your frustration, but I think you've taken a stance and will now not be swayed from it, regardless of the evidence before you. re: your last statement, I think expectations were dropping even before MA bought the club. Under Shepherd and Halls I didn't automatically assume we'd be challenging for top honours because I saw Chelsea suddenly come into vast sums of money. I saw Wenger's experiment pay off to such a degree it was impossible to imagine that 7 games into a season they'd be floundering so badly. I saw the Man U juggernaut grow stronger with each passing season. The only thing I was sure under the previous regime is we'd spend around £15m in the transfer window. We still finished bottom half of the Premier League under the previous regime roughly as many times as we finished in the top half. When Dalglish took over from Keegan, I expected Champions League, when Gullit took over from Dalglish I expected Europe. When Sir Bobby took over I expected survival. Souness? Relegation. I don't think it's fair to say Newcastle fans' expectations have dropped since Mike Ashley. They've been steadily depressing for a while. Ever since the unblievable highs of Keegan's first reign came crashing down. I also don't think it's fair to say that in reducing our expectations we're being anything less than realistic. You yourself have said that you expect to challenge Spurs and Liverpool, not go for the title. Is this not evidence of your own expectations getting in line with reality? With the league as it is; all the power with the super-rich, Newcastle United simply cannot compete. With or without Shepherd and Hall at the helm. They could spend as much as they could muster, it still would pale in comparison to the half a billion the Etihad Arena has seen grace it's pitch. Half a Billion! But none of this matters, unless you finally, eventually, stop having the same argument everytime you come on here. Excellent post, white bit nails it. There is a definitive "break point" and that as you say is the first Keegan years, after that there were blips or grasps at the heights again, each one not quite as high as the last and each one, not sustained. The sprial was heading down, we rose (a bit higher) and we fell (a bit lower) and that was going only one way. We never did consolidate it or rather, fully capitalise on or continue it, and all the while the game was changing and we were getting poorer and poorer. your man will never get anywhere near the heights of the past regime or anywhere not even close to fulfilling the potential of the football club. Which is the main point that you are unable to grasp, instead accepting 2nd rate standards and expectations on a par with the Blackburns and Boltons. I see you still haven't revised your opinion of Mike Ashley yet, despite saying for months that you would, based on the transfer deadline and how he would show his ambitions for the future success of the club. Take your time. As wouldn't the "latter" previous regime, which is the point you fail to grasp. In fact, my contention (opinion) is that the "latter previous regime" would have taken us to as yet unplumbed and horrific depths. My opinion of MA is what it always was, he's a twat, but I am gratefull for his deep pockets. Please feel free to find where I've said different. Your "Ashley's back pocket" comments amply illustrate your ignorance. Please also feel free to produce evidence that MA has taken even a penny out of the club. When that time comes I'll accept he's profiteering, but he has £52,000,000.01 to go, before he outstrips the "achievements" of the previous regime. Still no Nolan/Barton answer (the question was, for the third or maybe fourth time) Would you have given Nolan/Barton the contract lengths and values that they achieved by their moves.

Ok, so you want us to challenge the likes of Liverpool and Spurs (I'm presuming this is an "at least" scenario"). Ok, now I have a frame of reference to your expectations. Do you think the current 1st team is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure) Do you think the current squad is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure) unlike posters such as mancmag, and others, I'll give my view. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But I'm right, as always. The current team is not as good as a year ago. The current squad is not as good as a year ago. The club is, in the long run, heading downwards, the expectations etc have dived. Why do you think the commercial profile and crowds are down ? Ok, I'll give my player by player comparison to explain why I think the 1st team is stronger than it was last year Krul - Harper Much of a muchness to be honest, although the former has bags of potential and by your own admission looks more capable with crosses Simpson - Simpson I think he's improving, but he's still an average right back Taylor - Taylor Again, I think he's average Premiership, but his confidence is growing as his his understanding with Colo Coloccini - Coloccini Best defender at the club (now) plays well with Taylor and is the best CB to pull on the shirt since Woodgate imo Santon/Raylor - Enrique Raylor is clearly a shit left back, Santon hasn't been seen yet so I can;t really compare. However, Jose Enrique was not only the best defender at the club, he was arguably the best left back in the country and he wouldn't look out of place in any club. Obertan - Barton Barton is a better player, Obertan is a better winger. I don't think Gabriel will keep his place when Marveaux, Ben Arfa and Jonas are all fit and flying. I would say we'll miss Barton's application, he's clearly a good footballer, but I think the midfield is better without him (I'll say why in a bit) Cabaye - Nolan. This is a no brainer, even in 7 games Cabaye is 10 times the player Nolan is. He's fitter, more mobile, more astute with the pass, he works harder and he will give us goal scoring options outside the box. Tiote - Tiote The man is a beast and will grow and grow. He will be better this season than he was last. Jonas - Jonas Spiderman is a good Premiership player, regardless of what some people think, you can't underestimate his contribution. He provides a much needed way of carrying the ball away from defense, he works hard all game, wins so many free-kicks (by fair or foul), corners etc. Best/Ameobi - Ameobi/Lovenkrands Best has had a good start, whether he can continue is a different question. However, The choice between Ameobi and Best is a much more pleasing quandary than Ameobi or Lovenkrands. The latter is finished. He may pop up with the odd cup goal, but I'd rather Sameobi or Vuckic or even Ranger got their chance ahead of him. Ba - Carroll This is tough. Ba looks a good Premier League striker; mobile, physical, decent touch, decent finish. Is he as good as Carroll? only time will tell, personally? I don't think he is. I think Carroll will become a more imposing player than Ba. For this club at this time, obviously I'd rather Carroll were still here, alongside Ba, but as it stands we've lost 1 15 goal a season striker and replaced him with another imo. Overall, we've improved the midfield to such an extent I'd definitely say the squad was stronger. In Cabaye we have a player of genuine quality, and the central pairing has been praised , to me, by fans of all manner of clubs. People are saying that it's the best centre in the premier league. This is why I think that losing Barton and Nolan isn't a death knell. I think when Ben Arfa returns and we have guile to go with the steel in the centre we will genuinely have a top 4 midfield. Up front isn't so great, but then it wasn't great with Carroll and he's not exactly pulling up trees. I'm not just talking about scoring goals, but his overall play has been poor by all accounts. Whereas Ba has been on fire. I truly believe that with the addition of a decent striker at Christmas we'd be the form team again. The defence as individuals aren't spectacular, but we've conceded the fewest number of goals in the English League. That can only be down to hard work on the training fields and astute tactics. Would I have Enrique back? In an instant. However, Santon may well be a good addition. I understand your frustration, but I think you've taken a stance and will now not be swayed from it, regardless of the evidence before you. re: your last statement, I think expectations were dropping even before MA bought the club. Under Shepherd and Halls I didn't automatically assume we'd be challenging for top honours because I saw Chelsea suddenly come into vast sums of money. I saw Wenger's experiment pay off to such a degree it was impossible to imagine that 7 games into a season they'd be floundering so badly. I saw the Man U juggernaut grow stronger with each passing season. The only thing I was sure under the previous regime is we'd spend around £15m in the transfer window. We still finished bottom half of the Premier League under the previous regime roughly as many times as we finished in the top half. When Dalglish took over from Keegan, I expected Champions League, when Gullit took over from Dalglish I expected Europe. When Sir Bobby took over I expected survival. Souness? Relegation. I don't think it's fair to say Newcastle fans' expectations have dropped since Mike Ashley. They've been steadily depressing for a while. Ever since the unblievable highs of Keegan's first reign came crashing down. I also don't think it's fair to say that in reducing our expectations we're being anything less than realistic. You yourself have said that you expect to challenge Spurs and Liverpool, not go for the title. Is this not evidence of your own expectations getting in line with reality? With the league as it is; all the power with the super-rich, Newcastle United simply cannot compete. With or without Shepherd and Hall at the helm. They could spend as much as they could muster, it still would pale in comparison to the half a billion the Etihad Arena has seen grace it's pitch. Half a Billion! But none of this matters, unless you finally, eventually, stop having the same argument everytime you come on here. Excellent post, white bit nails it. There is a definitive "break point" and that as you say is the first Keegan years, after that there were blips or grasps at the heights again, each one not quite as high as the last and each one, not sustained. The sprial was heading down, we rose (a bit higher) and we fell (a bit lower) and that was going only one way. We never did consolidate it or rather, fully capitalise on or continue it, and all the while the game was changing and we were getting poorer and poorer.

Hoping it'll exacerbate his hangover, via eye strain, as he'll likely only read that when pissed.

If KK hadn't tried to take the club/Ashley for £25Mill, might have been different. KK, quite simply the best thing to happen to NUFC in my lifetime, he tapped into the average Mag's psyche and he had us eating out of his hands. Words and deeds. I seriously wonder on Newcastle supporters who denegrate this NUFC icon. Mine too, please show how/where I denegrated him ?? Please show me where I specifically mentioned you denegrating him, if you wish to be a smart arse? Of all the things to mention about KK and his time here you chose to mention him trying to get £25M out of NUFC, ok, fair enough, you could argue it was in the context of why supposedly this game wasn't played at SJP, but if there was a line up of ten or so toontastic posters and you had to pick who would've mentioned the quote about him attempting to sue the club, (Mike Ashley, really), then I'd have picked you out to be honest. Whether thats a fair perception or not that's what I would've done. There are a few Mags around who denegrate KK and who have fallen hook, line and sinker for the revised opinions given by gobshites in the media and talk-ins, (and who certainly have no love of this club), about 'bottling' and 'tactical naivity'. I don't know if you're one of these or not, TP, but you're on the suspected list. Come the revolution, expect a knock on your door in the early hours of the night! Apologies, just assumed you meant me as I was the one getting "stick", the mention was entirely for context about the SJP thing. As for the rest, not me. I would say though, whilst he did give us "the best days of our lives" if I feel something, that may appear derogatory, needs saying, I will say it. I have "moved on". As for the knock on the door, please make sure Wolfie and his pals do it at a weekend as I work away from home Mon-Friday so if they knock then they'll miss me, I'm sure my Mrs could handle them though as she scares the shit out of me at times.

Where's the yes or no to my question. Now or never in what context?? I have said what I "think" it shows. Even if he is not prepared to put his own hand into his own pocket any more, the financial position of the club is such that we can, and should, compete at our realistic level (circa Spurs was the consensus on here). O the surface, previous "profits" (not that we made any in real terms) went back into the team, whilst debt was increased to allow £52 Million to be taken out, or maybe it was the other way around. Any chance of an answer to my Nolan/Barton question ??? what is your view of your man dragging the average position drastically downwards ? Simply a continuation of the trend, we've bottomed outthough IMO What is your re-appraisal you said you would give of him after his summer "when the club was in a spending position for the first time" ? Already answered When did the old owners not back their managers to the utmost ? With their own money, never. If you want a specific example, the Bowyer summer When did you last put your money into the football club ? 2003 - and you know the reasons from PM some weeks ago, edit - thats when I personally stopped going, I stopped buying my ST's in 2005/6 What is your question re Barton and Nolan ? Would you have paid them/given them the contracts they have ended up with When is your man going to qualify for europe ? Not my man and sadly I do not "100% know the future", If by Eurpoe you mean Champions league, possibly never, but you do realise the game has somewhat changed since last we did. Who said Spurs was our target ? When your man took over, we were much bigger than Spurs ? No-one, wherever did you make that idea up from See above

In order that I can quote you in January, what do you class as a very BIG offer? Who for ???

If KK hadn't tried to take the club/Ashley for £25Mill, might have been different. KK, quite simply the best thing to happen to NUFC in my lifetime, he tapped into the average Mag's psyche and he had us eating out of his hands. Words and deeds. I seriously wonder on Newcastle supporters who denegrate this NUFC icon. No need to wonder in this case, Toonpack has already admitted he isn't a Newcastle or even a Football fan. Incorrect, I am Newcsatle fan, but have fallen hugely "out of love" with the modern game.

If KK hadn't tried to take the club/Ashley for £25Mill, might have been different. KK, quite simply the best thing to happen to NUFC in my lifetime, he tapped into the average Mag's psyche and he had us eating out of his hands. Words and deeds. I seriously wonder on Newcastle supporters who denegrate this NUFC icon. Mine too, please show how/where I denegrated him ??

I must admit, I'm guilty of presuming that the likes Colo, Tiote & Krul would be sold on if a decent offer came in (not an unreasonable presumption bearing in mine my complete lack of trust for this board). I hope you're right and they do make a real effort to keep the core of good, experienced players and build on it. How long's left on Colo's contract? What to you think of the chances of him getting/accepting a new deal? I don't tink we will accept offers (unless they are very BIG) any more than any non-champions league club will. As for Colo, he's 28 but CB's play well into their thrities, hope they can get something done, has to be this year otherwise it's "last year of contract shenanigans" again. Would suspect if he's not signed this season he'll be gone next summer. That's just the realityof the game these days.

Not wummery at all, my original point was just simply stating a fact, for which I got abuse. Hey ho, whatever floats your boat

Oooh that was grown up and insightful Maybe it isn't Ashely hate that's the problem, it is in fact the blind, unequivocal man love for KK Hey it's fine to slag the club off for being "petty" but when a potential reason, that maybe, just maybe, doesn't fit the "collective" argument it's baby-toys time. Pathetic

Friday - the local, big screen not unfurled, was on the TV's but no sound and no bugger watching. International football, with the exception of the tournaments which simply give you some football to watch in the summer, is irrelevant.

If KK hadn't tried to take the club/Ashley for £25Mill, might have been different.

Where's the yes or no to my question. Now or never in what context?? I have said what I "think" it shows. Even if he is not prepared to put his own hand into his own pocket any more, the financial position of the club is such that we can, and should, compete at our realistic level (circa Spurs was the consensus on here). O the surface, previous "profits" (not that we made any in real terms) went back into the team, whilst debt was increased to allow £52 Million to be taken out, or maybe it was the other way around. Any chance of an answer to my Nolan/Barton question ???

Is this statement exactly what you mean Leazes? You are 100% certain of the future? I've been saying this, and more, for long enough now ? Ok so you're saying, that it's a certainty that things will only ever get worse. Do you believe that without an uber-rich owner like Sheikh Mansour it is impossible to challenge for the title? I'm not and never have advocated challenging for the title. Find a post from me that says this ? What I DO advocate, is that we challenge the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, rather than sell our best players to smaller clubs and put up with the money disappearing down a big black hole. And - yes - in my opinion, this will continue to be the case for as long as Mike Ashley owns this football club. Now that is irony what is ? Why don't you tell us your revised opinion of the direction the club is going now that the deadline is over, and he has "had cash to spend for the first time" like you said you would, for months in fact ? This should be a long wait. And what is your view on your mans average league position diving so much, despite his superior running of the club ? Have answered that previously, at least twice. Summary - I believe, based on the recent evidence, that he is recouping as opposed to "benefacting". Direction of the club - Steadily improving (off the pitch, incomparable). you are wrong. And you said whatever Ashley did with the Carroll money would prove his intentions to you. Stop backtracking. I take it that you are happy to sell our best players and the money to disappear down a big black hole then ? Why is it the people who take this view, are predominantly those who aren't actually putting their own cash into the club ? And I stated I believe he is recouping, what's hard to comprehend about that. Ergo I think/believe his intention is to reduce his exposure. Simple. No money has gone down any "black hole" unlike £52 Million previous to his tenure, that is a fact BTW. We have not "as a rule" sold our best players, well not when we had control of the situation and I see no evdience to support the notion we will. I take it given you think we have indeed "sold our best players" you would have given Nolan and Barton the money and length of contracts they were looking for ?? A simple Yes or No will suffice.

lot of people call Given worse than muck for complaining and manufacturing a move. Maybe Haper is being professional. He refused to travel to Wolves

Is this statement exactly what you mean Leazes? You are 100% certain of the future? I've been saying this, and more, for long enough now ? Ok so you're saying, that it's a certainty that things will only ever get worse. Do you believe that without an uber-rich owner like Sheikh Mansour it is impossible to challenge for the title? I'm not and never have advocated challenging for the title. Find a post from me that says this ? What I DO advocate, is that we challenge the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, rather than sell our best players to smaller clubs and put up with the money disappearing down a big black hole. And - yes - in my opinion, this will continue to be the case for as long as Mike Ashley owns this football club. Now that is irony what is ? Why don't you tell us your revised opinion of the direction the club is going now that the deadline is over, and he has "had cash to spend for the first time" like you said you would, for months in fact ? This should be a long wait. And what is your view on your mans average league position diving so much, despite his superior running of the club ? Have answered that previously, at least twice. Summary - I believe, based on the recent evidence, that he is recouping as opposed to "benefacting". Direction of the club - Steadily improving (off the pitch, incomparable).

Is this statement exactly what you mean Leazes? You are 100% certain of the future? I've been saying this, and more, for long enough now ? Ok so you're saying, that it's a certainty that things will only ever get worse. Do you believe that without an uber-rich owner like Sheikh Mansour it is impossible to challenge for the title? I'm not and never have advocated challenging for the title. Find a post from me that says this ? What I DO advocate, is that we challenge the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, rather than sell our best players to smaller clubs and put up with the money disappearing down a big black hole. And - yes - in my opinion, this will continue to be the case for as long as Mike Ashley owns this football club. Now that is irony

...shit Maybe not: mattspiro @mattspiro Had a chat with Cabaye after France game. Doesnt seem to worry about ankle injury. Cant stop saying positive things about Newcastle!

A selective truth, sadly ignoring some pretty damn important other "stuff". But no need to revisit that roundabout.

His tenure could (should?) have been significantly better Glad we agree. We do, to a point. Selective quoting, are you son of Leazes ??

Agree with that, however the threat (of an injury recurrance, and similar impact related injuries) with HBA is greater. Opposition outfields (with a hatchet-man) will set their radar on him, due to the fact that when fit he is the 'key man' in the final 1/3, particularly in the hole where he is more vulnerable to the attention of a loose playing defensive midfielder ie. De Jong. We have little to offer in the form of that ability, to shift the focus away from him. With the likes of Man C and Liv, the attacking threat is more widespread Sorry but you don't buy a Ferrari to park in the garage and catch the fucking metro. In the winter you do, the salt on the roads fucks them up good.

His tenure could (should?) have been significantly better, but the relative depths we've plumbed have their seeds way back and (as has been my opinion all along) without a billionaire to bail us out we'd have sunk a damn sight lower. The final story of the "tenure" won't be known until it's done, but I would suggest finishing 9th or above, from where the club is now (and I don't mean just the league position, but general health etc) year on year is not beyond possibility and if Ashley can't accomplish that he is indeed, incompetent. If that raises us back to 5th best whoopee fuckin doo. It's a sad indictment of what is considered "success" when finishing regularly around 9th in a competition of 20 can make you considered the 5th best at anything. Last time I looked, competitive sports are about winning things and we have been crap at that since the 50's (1969 excepted).

This is the thing though. If you can't be allowed to enjoy a good run then this place has truly lost the plot. But you express any pleasure at a sequence of good results and he's foaming to either a) misrepresent what you've just said as Pro-Ashley propaganda, claiming we're on course for a CL place, or desperately trying to goad you into a thinly veiled Ashley/Shepherd 'ambition' debate. Sad for the forum to be honest and could hardly be less appropriate either because almost every post expressing happiness has a massively studied air about it in the sense that people are at great pains to say they don't think 4th place now will mean 4th place in May. I'm only asking you a few questions, concerning your opinions on how you think the club may do in the future with the current policies and set up, you pathetic idiot. As usual, you do nothing but babble on instead. I express my opinions quite freely on here and I have previously on those very points. They're rooted firmly in reality. You shouldn't expect me to repeat them for your benefit though given your track record of just making things up. This is old ground. Try and listen to what people are saying to you in this thread. Try and answer direct questions, instead of avoiding the main issue, which is what I have asked you. Just "pointing it out" again. Sorry like, but I didn't "make up" the vastly superior league positions this football club finished in before ownership changed hands. I don't see your replies, I only see babbling nonsense tbh. Sometimes, actual average (also not made up) 9.4th That is vastly superior to the average finish under Ashley Never said it wasn't, but it's not a lot to equal/beat tbh. Only four teams managed it. True, just shows the divsion within the division and that outside the top 4, (maybe 5 now that Citeh have joined the club) the league is pretty crap and finishing above 9.4th year on year should not be difficult, for a club our size.