Toonpack

Not sure what you mean by that. If we win, then it shows we have depth but if we lose, we lack depth? Yet the depth of a squad is not affected by a result. I think you mean its a test of the quality we have in depth. In which case i agree. We could be playing our 4th and 5th Choices at CH, with the added likely disruption to the full back position(s), plus our 3rd choice holding midfielder. When you get down in that area of a squad it would be a challenge for anyone. It's a test of the squad to a depth you would rarely ordinarily get to tbh, you're basically playing your 4th choice "heart of the team" how often does that happen. Our 3rd choice CB is shite though. As a 3rd choice, he's not. We thought our whole defence (as a unit) was likley to be shite before the season, events proved otherwise.

That's because he's victimised and gets no protection, bless him

I'm waiting for Leazes to refute/critique Shinton's post. He won't like, the thread will sink like a stone now.

With the injuries and especially if Colo is out (and I hope he's not risked if not 100%) any positive result would be an excellent achievement.

in the long term chum, the top half of the league is considered success by your man, which is exactly my point. His sidekick has said so, and the setup of the club is such that this is the highest aim. Only people who don't spend their cash on the club and watch it on TV will be ultimately happy with that, people who go to games will drift away, and a dozen games doesn't change that one iota. Why refer to him as my man? The question was where do you, Leazes Mag, consider as being also ran?? setting survival as your aim, and mid table as success ? Selling your best players and pocketing the cash ? That may be fine for small clubs like Bolton, Blackburn etc, but not Newcastle. That is the actions of also rans, with limited ambitions, and small 20000 stadiums, struggling to fill them, and accepting you are unable to challenge the other major clubs, this is the mindset Mike Ashley has imposed on many of you, most of whom don't go to games so you accept it more readily. I really don't know why I'm trying to explain this to you again. Ignoramus please show us again, the superior league positions etc achieved by your man in the last 4 years to the previous owners ?

Well said The prosecution rests m'lud

I hoped he would spend it, that said Ba for nowt (in transfer fee) and him reducing his exposure (if he has, as I suspect) as opposed to Ruiz for £10 Mill, for example, is perfectly fine, in fact it's even better.

Absolutely the right attitude that, especially the bit in bold, irrespective of whether you like the owner or not, or think he's doing it the right way or not, it's something we should all be able to agree on (or most of us anyway). It's right though and I don't see the point in worrying about players leaving, in fact the way we've been scouting players over the past few years I feel confident that we could do a good job of replacing them anyway, I can remember people worried about Baye leaving but who gives him a second thought now? Or Given, or Nolan. Some players have left that have bothered me like Enrique but it happens with all clubs, others have gone and we've not only replaced them but improved too with their replacements. I feel similar about our scouting network as I did about Arsenal's a decade or so ago in that we've been able to sell what is considered our stars and replace them for less money while attempting to improve. That's the penny you won't get to drop in Leazes-world you and Baggio have another thing in common. Neither of you go to games, in the real world. You see, that's also irrelevant. In the days when the only way to see the game was to go, you would have had a point on the validity of comments. Actually not going but seeing all the games on a TV gives a much better perspective than "being there", it's also less time consuming, warm and convivial. No objectionable comments or inhaling of unwanted beer farts from some scruffy pissed twat, it's bliss man.

in the long term chum, the top half of the league is considered success by your man, which is exactly my point. His sidekick has said so, and the setup of the club is such that this is the highest aim. Only people who don't spend their cash on the club and watch it on TV will be ultimately happy with that, people who go to games will drift away, and a dozen games doesn't change that one iota. Why refer to him as my man? The question was where do you, Leazes Mag, consider as being also ran?? setting survival as your aim, and mid table as success ? Selling your best players and pocketing the cash ? That may be fine for small clubs like Bolton, Blackburn etc, but not Newcastle. That is the actions of also rans, with limited ambitions, and small 20000 stadiums, struggling to fill them, and accepting you are unable to challenge the other major clubs, this is the mindset Mike Ashley has imposed on many of you, most of whom don't go to games so you accept it more readily. I really don't know why I'm trying to explain this to you again. Ignoramus

Absolutely the right attitude that, especially the bit in bold, irrespective of whether you like the owner or not, or think he's doing it the right way or not, it's something we should all be able to agree on (or most of us anyway). It's right though and I don't see the point in worrying about players leaving, in fact the way we've been scouting players over the past few years I feel confident that we could do a good job of replacing them anyway, I can remember people worried about Baye leaving but who gives him a second thought now? Or Given, or Nolan. Some players have left that have bothered me like Enrique but it happens with all clubs, others have gone and we've not only replaced them but improved too with their replacements. I feel similar about our scouting network as I did about Arsenal's a decade or so ago in that we've been able to sell what is considered our stars and replace them for less money while attempting to improve. That's the penny you won't get to drop in Leazes-world

You completely missed , or missunderstood, the one begets the other then your lack of an answer actually replies to the question of the thread. Your lack of brain cells (still active one's anyway) supplies the answer to lots of thingson this forum. Other than the same old bullshit tirade, you NEVER rationalise, nor answer, anything. on the contrary, everything I have said about the old and new owner is actually happening. Sorry to mention this again like, but the usual bog standard response from you demands this reply. You have answered the question in the thread. You don't go to games, therefore you can take the club or leave it, and have different priorities to spending your cash going to games and hoping only to win as many as possible. You don't feel happy or pissed off in the club or pub after the game, you just switch to another TV channel. You still don't answer my question about the transfer deadline. I know you said he is "recouping" but it goes deeper than that. No it's not, you are so misguided it is untrue. As for my priorities, it's a "time" thing not a cash thing and Oh yes I do get pissed off after a game (although this season not so much, and I see them all) I just don't happen to go to the pub (or the match). I believe he is recouping, what more is there to say. The taking profits/vehicle for SD is bollocks IMO, it doesn't stack up. (if that's what you are referring to). You talk about "pocketing" all the time as a very bad thing, (not that the current owner is) yet the irony of you, of all people, taking that position in itself zero's your credibility well, if he is "recouping", what was he doing before September 1st ? Isn't "recouping" just another way of saying "selling our best players, not backing his manager, pocketing the cash" etc etc.......this is what you were told by myself and others BEFORE the transfer deadline........so I'll ask you again, what are your REVISED views of Mike Ashleys ambitions for the club since September 1st, and what were you hoping he would do to make you change those views when you were saying this BEFORE September 1st and the end of the transfer deadline ? What exactly has made you finally realise he is "recouping" if you didn't see it earlier ? Fundamentaly NOT, I mean it's not even close. Therein lies your problem. so please tell us, where is the Carroll cash. What do you think he was doing before the end of the transfer deadline, and therefore what did you hope he would do when you said you would revise your opinion after the deadline ? What did you hope he would do when you said "he is now in a position to spend for the first time", where is this cash that wasn't spent ? Therein lies your problem. You don't see the meaning of your own comments. Carroll cash, spent. I would suggest some as contribution to running costs (and transfers) and some I suspect to reduce the debt to MA. The latter part being the element, or proportion, of the Carroll cash that was in the "position to spend" bracket, it seems he chose not to, but rather "recouped". I seriously wonder why I bother tbh

You completely missed , or missunderstood, the one begets the other then your lack of an answer actually replies to the question of the thread. Your lack of brain cells (still active one's anyway) supplies the answer to lots of thingson this forum. Other than the same old bullshit tirade, you NEVER rationalise, nor answer, anything. on the contrary, everything I have said about the old and new owner is actually happening. Sorry to mention this again like, but the usual bog standard response from you demands this reply. You have answered the question in the thread. You don't go to games, therefore you can take the club or leave it, and have different priorities to spending your cash going to games and hoping only to win as many as possible. You don't feel happy or pissed off in the club or pub after the game, you just switch to another TV channel. You still don't answer my question about the transfer deadline. I know you said he is "recouping" but it goes deeper than that. No it's not, you are so misguided it is untrue. As for my priorities, it's a "time" thing not a cash thing and Oh yes I do get pissed off after a game (although this season not so much, and I see them all) I just don't happen to go to the pub (or the match). I believe he is recouping, what more is there to say. The taking profits/vehicle for SD is bollocks IMO, it doesn't stack up. (if that's what you are referring to). You talk about "pocketing" all the time as a very bad thing, (not that the current owner is) yet the irony of you, of all people, taking that position in itself zero's your credibility well, if he is "recouping", what was he doing before September 1st ? Isn't "recouping" just another way of saying "selling our best players, not backing his manager, pocketing the cash" etc etc.......this is what you were told by myself and others BEFORE the transfer deadline........so I'll ask you again, what are your REVISED views of Mike Ashleys ambitions for the club since September 1st, and what were you hoping he would do to make you change those views when you were saying this BEFORE September 1st and the end of the transfer deadline ? What exactly has made you finally realise he is "recouping" if you didn't see it earlier ? Fundamentaly NOT, I mean it's not even close. Therein lies your problem.

You completely missed , or missunderstood, the one begets the other then your lack of an answer actually replies to the question of the thread. Your lack of brain cells (still active one's anyway) supplies the answer to lots of thingson this forum. Other than the same old bullshit tirade, you NEVER rationalise, nor answer, anything. on the contrary, everything I have said about the old and new owner is actually happening. Sorry to mention this again like, but the usual bog standard response from you demands this reply. You have answered the question in the thread. You don't go to games, therefore you can take the club or leave it, and have different priorities to spending your cash going to games and hoping only to win as many as possible. You don't feel happy or pissed off in the club or pub after the game, you just switch to another TV channel. You still don't answer my question about the transfer deadline. I know you said he is "recouping" but it goes deeper than that. No it's not, you are so misguided it is untrue. As for my priorities, it's a "time" thing not a cash thing and Oh yes I do get pissed off after a game (although this season not so much, and I see them all) I just don't happen to go to the pub (or the match). I believe he is recouping, what more is there to say. The taking profits/vehicle for SD is bollocks IMO, it doesn't stack up. (if that's what you are referring to). You talk about "pocketing" all the time as a very bad thing, (not that the current owner is) yet the irony of you, of all people, taking that position in itself zero's your credibility

You completely missed , or missunderstood, the one begets the other then Neither actually, I just didn't happen to agree. I was also sending up your tedious selectivity when reading others posts. Again. If you cannot see that a "skint position" will inevitably equate to a negative impact on the pitch, you are approaching Leazes' levels of thickness. BTW I only highlighted the bit I took a measure of issue with, you shouldn't be so insecure. That's what the bolding thing is for, if I disputed all your whole post I wouldn't have bolded owt. (I just did it again an all)

You completely missed , or missunderstood, the one begets the other then your lack of an answer actually replies to the question of the thread. Your lack of brain cells (still active one's anyway) supplies the answer to lots of thingson this forum. Other than the same old bullshit tirade, you NEVER rationalise, nor answer, anything.

You completely missed , or missunderstood, the one begets the other then

On the pitch, yes for a short while, off the pitch it's not even close. Eventually one begets the other. The "low" was still hugely higher than it likely would have been (IMO)

I think there was a poll recently that showed very few were "apologists". "Realists" now that'd be a different thing.

are you really 38 ? When did you start supporting Newcastle ? Yep, I also posted when and why in a previous thread although that has absolutely nothing to do with you de railing threads with your constant ramblings you have the knowledge and outlook of an 8 year old. You only think its "derailing" because you don't agree. What i say will stand the test of time. Just me?? You really are mental anyone who seriously thinks Mike Ashley will ever match the Halls and Shepherd is mental chum. Anyone who can't see the game has fundamentaly changed and the "Halls (Dougie) and Shepherd" could never have matched the "Hall (SJH)" years is similarly mental. I don't recall anybody saying that 5 years or so ago as the reason for wanting them replaced. Did you know Man City were going to be taken over by a bunch of Arabs ? You should have went to the bookies. I also don't see Man City being taken over by a bunch of Arabs as a reason for NUFC to become a selling club again like they were in the 70's and 80's, competing with the lower level premiership clubs, but I'm sure you will continue to kid yourself differently., and justify your hatred of Fred, like all the other numpties on other message boards and here who also are spouting the same line. Anybody but Fred would do better than this, is what you all said. So when exactly is this somebody going to do better, all he has done so far is sell our best players, get relegated and drop the average league position massively as well as seeing levels of interest in the club also go down in terms of sponsorship and other revenues including match tickets. You also said for a long time that you would review your views of Mike Ashley after the 1st September and the summer transfer deadline. What is your new appraisal ? We know you thought he would spend the Carroll cash, as you said in your own words "he is now in a position to spend for the first time", putting you in a position where you could have then said "who's showing ambition now then ?" [obvious as fuck tbh], but as it didn't happen [as some of us told you] what is your appraisal now ? This is a genuine question. You said this for a long time. What is your new appraisal, and justify whatever you are going to say. Stop moving the goalposts, and contribute a reply to a genuine constructive question. How many times

he's talking about the setup and ambitions of the club, which is far bigger than a one-off decision in both cases. As you are also getting carried away with a short run of results rather than look at the longer term and the likelihood of keeping this going, you need to take your specs off Chez, you do appear to have became very defensive lately. You know the same as some of the rest of us, that Tiote will be sold to maximise his selling value, and nothing to do with footballing reasons or personality clashes etc which happen in life. The 2 situations are worlds apart. Indeed but i was just pointing out its not a fact yet, its a strong opinion based argument. Not being defensive, just absolutely cant abide Dolly's post saying that Hamman got sold for re-sale value (and because he fell out with the manager) just like Tiote "will be" (apart from the manager bit) but selling Hamann was alright because they were proper 'football men'. Its empty, meaningless nonsense that proves nothing unless you want to read things into it. Which you cant really. The better debate is who was the better footballer and potentially who has the bigger cock. maybe the debate is about who is the better footballer, but like all threads [or even daft NO type polls], it becomes more than that even without going down the usual predictable channel. Tiote is not sold yet, but - calling a spade a spade - do YOU think he will be sold to maximise his value, and when it happens, do YOU think the manager will have a say in the matter, and do YOU think the manager will be handed the fee to build on his team and continue trying to improve it d[albeit after being deliberately seriously weakened against his wishes]. You can see this point, you know you can, you are just deliberately not answering it, and you know damn well - like the other Ashley apologists ie Toonpack, jaysouthernmag, CT, ewerk etc, what is going to happen. The point about Dolly's post is that Hamman fell out with the manager, so they backed their manager and allowed him to replace a good player in the best way possible according to the judgement of the manager by allowing him the funds from the sale. That is what "football men" do. Its the first time you've asked me, the answers are: i strongly suspect that is what is happening, the manager will have some sort of say but probably along the lines of answering 'can we get top 10 without him?' not final say and no, not all of it but i suspect he will get more than £3.5m to replace Tiote (which is where the interesting angle sits). For me, answering any questions like that is straightforward. I dont need to jump through hoops or contort arguments to suit an agenda as i treat the change in our circumstances as a fact of life, one that would be great to change but thats easier said than done. The strategy for the football club is constrained by its finances, whether we are aiming for 6th or 8th is a fine point of debate but not one i will get me knickers in a twist about. Assuming Tiote wanted to leave, lets say for the same reasons as Hamann for the sake of argument without getting drawn into the reasons why, if he gets 20m for Tiote, Pardew should get 20m to spend on the team as he sees fit, if the club has serious ambitions to progress. You do see this don't you ? Not a penny less. This has not happened with the sale of Carroll, and if it happens again, nobody not even you, can make a case for the club being a selling club again any longer. In my opinion, I think this will happen, whether the next big sale is Tiote, Colocinni or Krul, it is going to happen. You know it, I know it, Toonpack knows it, everybody knows it. So why pretend you don't ? And why pretend it isn't the final nail in the optimistic coffin that some of you are persisting in carrying around ? And in that, it's absolutely no different to just about everyone else. We are not a "special case", although some seem to be special needs.

as an aside, the ball in for #5 was a thing of rare beauty

are you really 38 ? When did you start supporting Newcastle ? Yep, I also posted when and why in a previous thread although that has absolutely nothing to do with you de railing threads with your constant ramblings you have the knowledge and outlook of an 8 year old. You only think its "derailing" because you don't agree. What i say will stand the test of time. Just me?? You really are mental anyone who seriously thinks Mike Ashley will ever match the Halls and Shepherd is mental chum. Anyone who can't see the game has fundamentaly changed and the "Halls (Dougie) and Shepherd" could never have matched the "Hall (SJH)" years is similarly mental.

like relegation ? And still waiting for a european qualification via league position ? Well done. sacking SBR was much much lower than relegation. where did we finish in the 2nd division/championship, after "Shepherd" sacked SBR, as he was running the club all on his own with less than 30% of the shares ? Have we all blinked and missed something Yes you did. You must have blinked and missed my post last week, in an answer to you btw, about Chairman/CEO and the irrelevance of shareholding and it's influence in day to day control, either that or you're just a bit dim.

Not sure what you mean by that. If we win, then it shows we have depth but if we lose, we lack depth? Yet the depth of a squad is not affected by a result. I think you mean its a test of the quality we have in depth. In which case i agree. We could be playing our 4th and 5th Choices at CH, with the added likely disruption to the full back position(s), plus our 3rd choice holding midfielder. When you get down in that area of a squad it would be a challenge for anyone. It's a test of the squad to a depth you would rarely ordinarily get to tbh, you're basically playing your 4th choice "heart of the team" how often does that happen.

He's a professional footballer and they, like professional managers, know inestimable amounts more than ANY football fan, any fan who thinks otherwise is deluded. That said, Perch could do with being significantly upgraded, BUT, I'm not sure what sort of upgrade you could realistically get who would be content to be 4th choice CB. How many teams have a great 4th choice player at any position. Are you saying Nile Ranger knows more about football than me? We haven't got a great 3rd choice centre half let alone 4th you fool. I wouldn't count Ranger as a very professional footballer, but based on many of your rants, he probably does tbh, even when gangsta'd up. Perch is OUR 4th choice CB and who does (outside of the moneybags) have a great 3rd/4th choice player at any position and what sort of player "should" we be after in Stevie world. Remember you're talking about a player "we should have bought last summer" to back up Taylor/Colo and therefore be happy to sit on his arse. Go on, giz a realistic list because I seriously doubt a "significant" upgrade over Williamson/Perch would be happy with that role.