Toonpack

Somewhat like the Hibee's tbh

He's nowhere near shit, he's very good, BUT he does get caught in possesion too much. If he could cut that out (or even reduce it) he'd move from very good to potentially great. T'is a small-ish quibble, but it is there all the same.

That's rubbish man. Not like, he was very poor until the last 10 minutes and he does give the ball away WAY too much for someone of his ability. You could say he needlessly lost the ball on a few occations, but he also won a lot of challenges, did well with the short pass and battled in his usual way. If he was very poor, how do you rate the performances of Obertan and Best? Also poor, but it's a question of performance level in relation to undoubted ability. Tiote could be immense (he shows flashes of it, sometimes puts a whole game together) as for winning challenges, that's his job. Giving the ball away. especially in the area of the field, he tends to do it, will cost us sometime if he keeps doing it. No-one is perfect and everyone is going to be tackled/dis-posessed at some time, but it's just much too regular an occurrence for someone of Tiote's ability.

I would argue the opposite tbh, he's playing his best stuff just now IMO. The fact he doesn't have the easy "pass off" option to Enrique means he's having to drive on himself and he's very good at beating a man/taking a player (or two sometimes) out of the game.

That's rubbish man. Not like, he was very poor until the last 10 minutes and he does give the ball away WAY too much for someone of his ability.

Aids and hepatitis I believe

Play poorly and win, excellent stuff. Jonas MoM by a street IMO

Are Man U the richest club in the land? Yes or No? in the world probably Yes is the answer you're looking for. Do they have huge debts? Yes again. Yes they do, but that was levereaged buy out debt, they don't go into debt to supplement "on the field", it's incomparable, not to mention the level of debt repayments to their income is well within their means. Your inability to class debt to an owner as debt is strange. We have way more debt now than under Shepherd. No doubt you'll say that it's not a problem because it's personal debt, I'd argue the opposite. although he's far younger than Fayed I worry What the future holds if the fat Cunt chokes on a pie. I'm sure some ex wife will be even less likely to do the right thing than he is. I don't believe I've ever said it's not debt, of course it is. BUT it's a totally different kettle of fish owing it to an owner as opposed to a financial institution. Especially as our level of debt appears to far exceed the assetts and as such the monies required, which turned into said debt, would not have been available to the club from "the market". If he chokes on a pie yes it's a risk, but depending on how the "loans" are written his death could make no difference. The debts are held by MASH Holdings Ltd, he may die but that company doesn't/won't, all would depend on how his estate/will is written. Probably less of a risk exists than a bank calling in it's due, because there doesn't appear to be a schedule of payments to met etc, therefore default is unlikely and the other risks/vagaries/volativity of the financial climate are mostly nullified. Additionally, I would be amazed if he wasn't cast iron defended against an ex-wife (whether he be alive or dead). Im guessing I'm one of those posters Chez talks about and to be fair part of what he says is correct. I always expect the worse from this lot and so far they're generally true to form. On Pardew I'll state now that I believe he was appointed to toe the party line however they appear to have struck lucky, the only criticism I have of the man is his insistence on praising Fatty in press conferences. Better to be lucky than good That said, they seem be be striking it lucky with some regularity, so maybe it's not luck (all the time). Closing of L7, twatful, spiteful and can only have a negative effect on atmosphere. You'll see exactly what I mean the next time were getting tonked at home. There's a much wider duscussion to be had about atmosphere at football grounds and the general sanitisation of them tbh, see below. 10 year STs seem a good deal but let's seehow it pans out, forcing membership to a club is the key I believe. How much will that cost next year? It could turn out to be a stealth tax as such. Remains to be seen I suppose, but "as it stands" it can't be seen as anything but good. Increasing family enclosure is good, there's no other conclusion. Putting it where he did though was designed to take the flak off L7 disbanding. Mebe's Carroll - great business, not having a replacement lined up, gross stupidity that could have cost us another relegation. But didn't, not even close tbh. At the end of the day Im happy with our start it's way better than I predicted but I can't help but feel I will all fall apart. Falling apart, or the expectation that it will, at NUFC is not the preserve of MA's ownership, there's always been an undercurrent of impending doom following NUFC. This concept of being self sufficient is the worry selling one or two big name performers every year to allow us to buy cheap potential with contract clauses is a dangerous game I don't believe that will happen tbh, unless contracts run down/silly offers come in from top 4-5/Champs League clubs, in that respect we're no different to anyone else. A digression I know but - On the atmosphere bit: In 1929, JB Priestly described being in a football crowd as “all brothers together for an hour and a half ... with half of the town and there you were, cheering together, thumping one another on the shoulders, swapping judgements like lord of the earth”. Now you are a "consumer" and thou shalt sit down in your nice seat and don't even think about swearing (that'll be next to be "cleansed") - t'is the law. Any area of the ground "standing" was going to get stamped on sooner or later, add in the anti-owner stuff and it was bound to happen sooner rather than the later.

Yawn........................................ I never said you wanted them to lose btw (more fairy tales from Hans Christian Leazes)

They won something oh aye, you've said before the whole 15 years and the Keegan era particularly, in your opinion, was all a waste of time Did they not make a profit either ? Selective editing is back in vogue I see so when are you going to admit to us that your man didn't do what you thought he would do in the summer, and myself and others called it correctly ? "Selective editing".... I'm not, because I don't believe I ever said I though what he would do. I said there were two ways it could go, he could speculate (becasue I believed the club was in a position where that was finally possible) or he'd recoup. Feel free to find a quote where I definitively said he would significantly spend in the summer, in my opinion. If you can then you'll have evidence I was wrong which I couldn't avoid. I belive he's recouping, I could be wrong on that though. Fill yer boots

Can I be in team cautiously optimistic please ?, I've been bitten by these black and white bastards way to many times to be ever 100% positive. We are cursed tbh. The parallel's with my Green Bay Packers are uncanny (on and off the field) and I am having ill-judged bouts of stupid optimism on occassion, but remaining cautiously optimistic is my aim. Team not suicidal is more appropriate. I think we've been moving in the right direction since we got relegated, the three events that seemed disastrous (Pardew, Carroll, no new no.9) turned out fine so the underlying direction still holds. I do have to say that travelling in a direction is fine until you get to your destination, the key to this debate is whether we get off at 'mid-table' 'aiming for 7th' or can/will/want to go any higher. This is still up for debate and its far more nuanced than a daft postive/negative axis. I just get the feeling it winds up alex and HF so i keep bringing it up I would have the temerity to add, that, in retrospect, the relegation in itself was not a bad thing as it allowed an amount of "purge". I similarly would add, that, despite a certain posters denigration of my opinion of it, our size means that even operating within our limits gives us advantage of a not insignificant amount. From little acorns etc etc. Sky's the limit etc etc (as is the basement mind, this is NUFC after all).

They won something oh aye, you've said before the whole 15 years and the Keegan era particularly, in your opinion, was all a waste of time Did they not make a profit either ? Selective editing is back in vogue I see

Can I be in team cautiously optimistic please ?, I've been bitten by these black and white bastards way to many times to be ever 100% positive. We are cursed tbh. The parallel's with my Green Bay Packers are uncanny (on and off the field) and I am having ill-judged bouts of stupid optimism on occassion, but remaining cautiously optimistic is my aim.

They won something (you know that thing that real success is made of) in that time and also accumulated "wealth" to haul us in and overtake us, all the while making more profit and thus buying/spending large amounts on players that they could afford. Take a way KK's first tenure, which was a great time which sadly we didn't capitalise on and get ourselves "locked in", and the average league position difference is less than half a place, whoopee fucking do ! Shit, I'd take finishing 2.2 places lower, but still in the upper echelons of the also rans, and win something, just once, would be good.

His point about our stature and turnover being higher than it is now, dismissing it as a "fallacy", is completely uneducated and misguided. You don't even comprehend what I said Stature > Liverpool - never Staure > Spurs - for a time Turnover is ONLY one side of the coin.

Whoa !!! I don't provide excuses, well I don't think I do. I provide what I consider potential reasoning behind certain behaviours, mainly on the fiscal side admittedly. I cannot excuse or understand Kinnear for example. I didn't understand Hughton getting sacked at the time, although now it appears a good decision. I thought the whole KK/Wise thing was a shambles.

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned. To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target. I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to. My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate. None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour. I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life. If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year. People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel. That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance. We weren't though, that's a falacy, our "richness" was based solely on debt, and the ability to get more debt, they made profits, we didn't, that debt came home to roost. Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that? Do you understand the principle of debits abd credits ??? Completely irrelevant to Chez's point of being 7th in terms of finance and stature. Explain why you ignored that, lack of understanding or ignorance? I wasn't talking to Chez, I was talking to you. In other words you're uncomfortable about being shown up, so you have to say something. How have I been shown up ?? We were better on the pitch (for a period) than Spurs, we have never been as succesfull as Spurs or Liverpool since the 50's. That's totally a different thing to "richer" than, and we have not been "richer" than them, especially Liverpool. Aye we made more money, on the income side (for a while) but the expenditure was disproportionate even to that level of income, so we had less left which = poorer than. Their lesser income has sustained them a lot further than our transient richness did.

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned. To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target. I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to. My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate. None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour. I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life. If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year. People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel. That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance. We weren't though, that's a falacy, our "richness" was based solely on debt, and the ability to get more debt, they made profits, we didn't, that debt came home to roost. Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that? Do you understand the principle of debits abd credits ??? Completely irrelevant to Chez's point of being 7th in terms of finance and stature. Explain why you ignored that, lack of understanding or ignorance? I wasn't talking to Chez, I was talking to you.

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned. To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target. I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to. My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate. None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour. I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life. If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year. People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel. That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance. We weren't though, that's a falacy, our "richness" was based solely on debt, and the ability to get more debt, they made profits, we didn't, that debt came home to roost. Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that? Do you understand the principle of debits and credits ???

Talk him up before you drop him, maybe. I reckon he'll give HBA a good run against Wigan.

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned. To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target. I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to. My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate. None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour. I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life. If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year. People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel. That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance. We weren't though, that's a falacy, our "richness" was based solely on debt, and the ability to get more debt, they made profits, we didn't, that debt came home to roost.

Nope, just killing time until my cable rods come so I can hang the telly in my bedroom.

is he happy with making profits and not being backed to replace players he is forced to sell ? He is happy with the fincancial structure, which he said "is geared towards competing and trying to win trophy's, it's not a model aimed at mediochrity" (I paraphase, but if you bothered to listen to it, you'd hear the same thing). Why don't you listen to him yourself ?? are you daft ? If he says anything else, he'll be sacked man Have you listened to him yet ??

Have you listened to Pardew yet, be interested in your comments. Be a quiet board if we only discussed games, they don't happen daily you do realise.

Like me. I see every game btw and you put your own cash into it ? BTW, watching a game live and putting your own cash into it is not the same as watching on TV. And, you can reply to the rest of the post, including my comments that not everybody who watches games on TV is necessarily blind, in your own time. I used to times 3, much more personal money than your mates ever did. I would suggest as I kept 3 tickets going for 2 years since I stopped going myself, I'm still owed a few games tbh. what ? Do you think playing in europe, the Champions League, 2 FA Cup Finals, buying top players instead of selling them, etc is not as good value as winning the 2nd division ? Is that the basis of your view that the current owner is "better" The good stuff is MUCH better, but we were never going back there, we were headed to MUCH worse. at the time, I believe the vast majority of people wanted rid of them "because anybody would do better than this". As if "anybody" would automatically lift the club into the top 4 alongside Chelsea, ManU, Arsenal and Liverpool - at the time . Simple odds, and I'm not even a betting man. What are or were the odds on that ? Incredible that people would believe such rubbish. You still don't confirm your view that Ashley is not going to match the ambitions, nor attempt to even realise the potential of the club, which is what I believe you were hoping he would do in the last transfer window "because its now the first time he has money to spend". This statement is also bollocks, it would mean going into this "debt" again, and if that was his aim, he would have gone that route ages ago. Which is also straightforward logical thought process. I really think its about time you just admitted that myself and others who told you ages ago that he would not attempt to realise the capability of the club have been correct, and get on with things. You are wasting your time spending so much time trying to deflect the content of your posts and avoid admitting this. His direction has been obvious for 4 years now, all you and others needed to do was take your head out of the sand. He will NEVER match the league positions of the previous regime, or even attempt it. He will ALWAYS sell our best players when possible and not back his managers with the money received. Most supporters who stump up the money to go to games, and so actually focus on winning on the pitch above all else [and for the most part understand this is what drives the finance] will never consider this to be "better" than fighting eternal relegation battles and settling for survival. There is still a little way to go yet before this sinks in with an element of the support, but they will realise eventually this is what this football club is all about now. How the fuck would it have been "better" if the previous regime were still in charge. Go on, convince me. As ever, you come up with selective facetious shite. On my first page, I have a post regarding the Pardew interview, which I recomended to everyone to listen to. Noticeably no-one on this forum appeared to. There hasn't been a game since Spurs, my posts (recent) have been on topics that have been being discussed, simple as, you're getting as bad as LM for making shite up. You gonna bark all night little doggie or you gonna bite? Think I'll bite tbh. Anyway it's not night-time