Super_Steve_Howey

Better defensive record than Allardyce's Hard working, organised, tactically sound Bolton though. Sure, the Newcastle's defensive problems are less down to the number of goals conceded but rather the way, they are conceded, i.e. individual mistakes aka 'doing a Bramble'. And when looking at the figures you have also to take into accound that opposition teams still treat the likes of Bolton and Newcastle differently though. Despite grossly underperforming most of the bottom half teams see Newcastle still as a threat and play far more defensively than they do against other teams. That's a difference to Bolton who like to sit back themselves most of the times. Who was the first Newcastle manager to recognise Bramble was shit and try to do something about it?

Hey, Alex, if you're happy i'm happy. I'm happy the possible scenario you envisage won't happen. So the chairman is just bullshitting? Well that would be a first Shepherd's said Owen can leave on a free next summer? Yes. Yes he did.

Exactly. But look at most football clubs and how they are set up in terms of coaching staff. Ever notice the amount of coaches Liverpool have? When they beat Chelsea last week they were all on the pitch afterwords and were celebrating with the players... we honestly have Clark (reserve team coach who shouldn't be near the first team on that basis), Terry Mac (who doesn't even come out for the warm ups), Genoe (GK coach), and the fitness coach who does the warm up routines. I remember Allardyce saying he had 29 members of staff working for him at Bolton, ok maybe it's quality not quantity but surely they would be more prepared than NUFC with our set up. Nutritionists, psychologists, etc. all play there part and even if they only bring out an extra 1% of the players then surely they are worth having. So the fact that Terry Mac doesn't come out for warm ups has led you to deduce we don't have a nutritionist

Exactly. But look at most football clubs and how they are set up in terms of coaching staff. Ever notice the amount of coaches Liverpool have? When they beat Chelsea last week they were all on the pitch afterwords and were celebrating with the players... we honestly have Clark (reserve team coach who shouldn't be near the first team on that basis), Terry Mac (who doesn't even come out for the warm ups), Genoe (GK coach), and the fitness coach who does the warm up routines. I remember Allardyce saying he had 29 members of staff working for him at Bolton, ok maybe it's quality not quantity but surely they would be more prepared than NUFC with our set up. Nutritionists, psychologists, etc. all play there part and even if they only bring out an extra 1% of the players then surely they are worth having. I wonder what ever happened that meant Clarkie boy got promoted....

Hey, Alex, if you're happy i'm happy. I'm happy the possible scenario you envisage won't happen. So the chairman is just bullshitting? Well that would be a first

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager. There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning. That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him. What kind of clubs did these players come from? Big clubs with big expectations. Perhap the key to their success is the fact Bolton were always the plucky over-achievers and Allardyce could use that to motviate them. I don't buy that he magically made them fit again, it's all mental. I doubt that mind-set will fit here. Bingo!!!! A manager motivating players to consistently over achieve and perform. that'll make a change You think that ideology fits NUFC? plucky over-achievers? Do you think we were the underdogs against AZ Alkmaar? Is that why we couldn't beat them, because we weren't over-achieving?

Hey, Alex, if you're happy i'm happy.

No free box for Vernon Kaye

Glenn Roeder is not the sort of person to read a book by Glenn Roeder

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager. There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning. That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him. What kind of clubs did these players come from? Big clubs with big expectations. Perhap the key to their success is the fact Bolton were always the plucky over-achievers and Allardyce could use that to motviate them. I don't buy that he magically made them fit again, it's all mental. I doubt that mind-set will fit here. That's a big assumption that appears to made purely on the basis that you don't like him! Observation and suppostition, not assupmtion What's your theory then?

So not free then. We'd be entitled to a figure close to Owen's final year salary by way of compensation, so around £5m and I don't think we'd be getting much more on the transfer market with a year left on his deal. The point being we couldn't stop him leaving. Little mickey pays us his salary, and gets a £5m signing bonus from his new club The point being, not free. Not guaranteed that the payment would be anywhere near £5m Can he leave for free next summer? Yes. Compensation would be subject to agreement through the courts a long time down the road, plus we would have to wait for our cases versus the FA, Phil Gartside, Kevin Bond and Panorama to clear before we could get round to that Which is it then? He is able to leave on a free or we get compensation should he choose to buy out the remander of his contract next summer? For all intents and purposes it is the same effect as losing him for free. The compensation is of uncertain amount, and will definitely be long after the event. Losing him for compo might as well be for free considering his likely goal tally by the time he goes and the fee we paid for him. The latter then. Does it matter? Would you be happy with him leaving of his own volition with a few thousand quid as compensation It matters in the sense that he can't leave for free next summer. If you think that scenario is not equivalent to free, that's fine. Daft, but fine.

So not free then. We'd be entitled to a figure close to Owen's final year salary by way of compensation, so around £5m and I don't think we'd be getting much more on the transfer market with a year left on his deal. The point being we couldn't stop him leaving. Little mickey pays us his salary, and gets a £5m signing bonus from his new club The point being, not free. Not guaranteed that the payment would be anywhere near £5m Can he leave for free next summer? Yes. Compensation would be subject to agreement through the courts a long time down the road, plus we would have to wait for our cases versus the FA, Phil Gartside, Kevin Bond and Panorama to clear before we could get round to that Which is it then? He is able to leave on a free or we get compensation should he choose to buy out the remander of his contract next summer? For all intents and purposes it is the same effect as losing him for free. The compensation is of uncertain amount, and will definitely be long after the event. Losing him for compo might as well be for free considering his likely goal tally by the time he goes and the fee we paid for him. The latter then. The rest is based on a flawed supposition imo. Much like the thread itself What facts in the OP do you dispute then? Is Fred not going to sue the FA? If so, why is he making such a fool of the club in public yet again? Is M. Owen going to play exclusively for NUFC for the remainder of his contract? Or has M. Owen got a proven reputation of looking out for himself?

So not free then. We'd be entitled to a figure close to Owen's final year salary by way of compensation, so around £5m and I don't think we'd be getting much more on the transfer market with a year left on his deal. The point being we couldn't stop him leaving. Little mickey pays us his salary, and gets a £5m signing bonus from his new club The point being, not free. Not guaranteed that the payment would be anywhere near £5m Can he leave for free next summer? Yes. Compensation would be subject to agreement through the courts a long time down the road, plus we would have to wait for our cases versus the FA, Phil Gartside, Kevin Bond and Panorama to clear before we could get round to that Which is it then? He is able to leave on a free or we get compensation should he choose to buy out the remander of his contract next summer? For all intents and purposes it is the same effect as losing him for free. The compensation is of uncertain amount, and will definitely be long after the event. Losing him for compo might as well be for free considering his likely goal tally by the time he goes and the fee we paid for him. The latter then. Does it matter? Would you be happy with him leaving of his own volition with a few thousand quid as compensation

So not free then. We'd be entitled to a figure close to Owen's final year salary by way of compensation, so around £5m and I don't think we'd be getting much more on the transfer market with a year left on his deal. The point being we couldn't stop him leaving. Little mickey pays us his salary, and gets a £5m signing bonus from his new club The point being, not free. Not guaranteed that the payment would be anywhere near £5m Can he leave for free next summer? Yes. Compensation would be subject to agreement through the courts a long time down the road, plus we would have to wait for our cases versus the FA, Phil Gartside, Kevin Bond and Panorama to clear before we could get round to that Which is it then? He is able to leave on a free or we get compensation should he choose to buy out the remander of his contract next summer? For all intents and purposes it is the same effect as losing him for free. The compensation is of uncertain amount, and will definitely be long after the event. Losing him for compo might as well be for free considering his likely goal tally by the time he goes and the fee we paid for him.

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager. There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning. That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him. What kind of clubs did these players come from? Big clubs with big expectations. Perhap the key to their success is the fact Bolton were always the plucky over-achievers and Allardyce could use that to motviate them. I don't buy that he magically made them fit again, it's all mental. I doubt that mind-set will fit here.

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. Well done So you agree that we replaced a shit manager with the winner of a diligent and comprehensive search of all available and temptable talent? You'll be able to point to where I said that then. You never say anything Alex, ya git Is that your excuse for building a straw man? Make hay while the sun shines, it's going to be a dark winter

So not free then. We'd be entitled to a figure close to Owen's final year salary by way of compensation, so around £5m and I don't think we'd be getting much more on the transfer market with a year left on his deal. The point being we couldn't stop him leaving. Little mickey pays us his salary, and gets a £5m signing bonus from his new club The point being, not free. Not guaranteed that the payment would be anywhere near £5m Can he leave for free next summer? Yes. Compensation would be subject to agreement through the courts a long time down the road, plus we would have to wait for our cases versus the FA, Phil Gartside, Kevin Bond and Panorama to clear before we could get round to that

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. Well done So you agree that we replaced a shit manager with the winner of a diligent and comprehensive search of all available and temptable talent? You'll be able to point to where I said that then. You never say anything Alex, ya git

So not free then. We'd be entitled to a figure close to Owen's final year salary by way of compensation, so around £5m and I don't think we'd be getting much more on the transfer market with a year left on his deal. The point being we couldn't stop him leaving. Little mickey pays us his salary, and gets a £5m signing bonus from his new club The point being, not free. Not guaranteed that the payment would be anywhere near £5m

I heard the Portugese police had pretty much come out and said, 'yeah, we thinks she's dead' How shit is that?

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. Well done So you agree that we replaced a shit manager with the winner of a diligent and comprehensive search of all available and temptable talent?

That's exactly it, everyone's ecstatic because he's not Roeder or Souness, without assessing Fat Sam in the context of running a massive club with millions to spend. And I'm mystified as to the rubbish being spouted about how the club is run / structured, most of it is conjecture based on dodgy press articles. I don't recall Nigel Pearson ever being a geordie or an ex player. I recall Kevin Bond had a good reputation, I wonder why he got fired? I saw dubious tactics, unfit and/or out of form players, players who are not improving. I have seen foreigners who don't settle. Clearly all signs of a club well run... All of which I had seen at one time or another under SBR / Keegan Do you expect players to pull out all the stops for a manager who people were wanting sacked after 6 months? You expect foreign players to be happy in NUFC, how many managers has Emre had now? You expect players to improve when they're being to to fuck off by the fans? Blithely blaming this malaise on the manager is daft No exculpating a manager from his incompetence is daft. To compare Souness and Roeder to the reigns of Keegan and Robson is just absurd - nothing else. A manager doesn't deserve to get blamed if there are indications of progress - there wasn't the slightest bit under Souness or Roeder. The club was going backwards rapidly. The manager is responsible for this. And the board. I'm just comparing them on the observations you stated. I guess Allardyce will get the rose tinted treatment, and excuses like injuries and it not being his team will be gladly accepted given his stellar record. I think people are just pleased because we might be getting a manager with a good record whereas the one that has just left was doing a poor job, which is his trademark really. The comparison to be made of the new manager is not Roeder or Souness. The irony of statements coming out now about wait until Sam has completely restructured the club, completely changed the team etc etc. When was the last time a manager was allowed to do that here? Was Roeder alllowed to do anything that required time to be assessed? Souness had a good record, records mean nothing. Roeder's a shit manager who should never have got near the job in the first place. And I'm not so sure Souness does have a good record. Records mean nothing though Allardyce has been at one top flight club and never one a trophy.Souness had managed many top flight teams and had trophies. Yes Roeder was shit, but why is Allardyce given accomodations that Roeder was not? Why have we basically just wasted a year? Some of the advantages to having Allardyce would have been laughed off the board a few years ago. So what is the metric to measure him by? How many places above our final position this year will be acceptable in 12 months time, given the fact that Allardyce is a proven Premiership manager? Bingo! Fantastic. So let's appoint anyone that was free.

That's exactly it, everyone's ecstatic because he's not Roeder or Souness, without assessing Fat Sam in the context of running a massive club with millions to spend. And I'm mystified as to the rubbish being spouted about how the club is run / structured, most of it is conjecture based on dodgy press articles. I don't recall Nigel Pearson ever being a geordie or an ex player. I recall Kevin Bond had a good reputation, I wonder why he got fired? I saw dubious tactics, unfit and/or out of form players, players who are not improving. I have seen foreigners who don't settle. Clearly all signs of a club well run... All of which I had seen at one time or another under SBR / Keegan Do you expect players to pull out all the stops for a manager who people were wanting sacked after 6 months? You expect foreign players to be happy in NUFC, how many managers has Emre had now? You expect players to improve when they're being to to fuck off by the fans? Blithely blaming this malaise on the manager is daft No exculpating a manager from his incompetence is daft. To compare Souness and Roeder to the reigns of Keegan and Robson is just absurd - nothing else. A manager doesn't deserve to get blamed if there are indications of progress - there wasn't the slightest bit under Souness or Roeder. The club was going backwards rapidly. The manager is responsible for this. And the board. I'm just comparing them on the observations you stated. I guess Allardyce will get the rose tinted treatment, and excuses like injuries and it not being his team will be gladly accepted given his stellar record. I think people are just pleased because we might be getting a manager with a good record whereas the one that has just left was doing a poor job, which is his trademark really. The comparison to be made of the new manager is not Roeder or Souness. The irony of statements coming out now about wait until Sam has completely restructured the club, completely changed the team etc etc. When was the last time a manager was allowed to do that here? Was Roeder alllowed to do anything that required time to be assessed? Souness had a good record, records mean nothing. So where were any real indications under Roeder that the club was moving in the right direction. It was all just paper talk. Who knows where the club was going? Roeder never even got a chance to get rid of Bumble, the first manager in our history who ever wanted to. He had two transfer windows and a whole year on the training ground to work on the shortcomings in central defence. And the only solution appears to have been buy Sol Campbell. Wow, reach for the stars there then. And improve Bramble on the training ground? Come off it. That's how we are judging new managers now is it - performance in one window? Have a look at the performance of the other managers who got more than a year to piss the money away.

Because Allardyce worked well over a long spell at Bolton and took the club forward while Roeder was generally shit at every club - including Newcastle? Have a look at his first few years at Bolton. If that had been Allardyce at Newcastle, he would have been in the same position as Roeder, out the door. If we needed a proven manager with a record that stands up, why have we gone for someone so mediocre as Allardyce? Who is actually going to be surprised if in 5 years time we haven't won anything and never got beyond a major quarter final?

What does it matter? It's a wasted year appointing a useless manager, the only difference bieng that his replacement is being given latitude that he was not.