Matt

After us Forest go to Bristol City. A win on Monday will bring about the usual chinese whispers about latest scored in the away end at Peterborough!

Phew. Barely deserved, but a decent point.

NUFC Mag- you have entirely missed my point. I'm not saying the loans don't physically exist but they would be factored into any sale price. Most (around £70m) of the £100m was actually to refinance sensibly-priced debt occured when expanding the stadium. The rest was to plug the horrific cash black hole at the time. As for 'control'- if a new owner still owed Ashley all that money, he'd need to run the club to pay the interest. And when those loans expire and banks rightly won't touch us with a bargepole, Ashley can re-negotiate the terms upwards, putting even more pressure on the club to make cash just to pay the interest on the loans. Who would really be determining how the club is run? The creditors of course, ie Ashley. He'd still be controlling the club. Even worse when that creditor will know exactly how your business is run and get his accountants to work out just how much he can squeeze out without killing the club entirely. Expecting him to write it off is not naive, its standard practice. The club, if sold, should be done on an external debt basis only. Leaving us still on the hook to Ashley would be catastophic.

Exactly.

If you own 100% of a company and loan it money on favourable terms, you are bearing all the risk and reward of that loan- really it is equity. Its a more tax efficient way of doing it and puts you into a stronger claim on the assets in event of administration or liquidation, but whether Ashley creates more shares in the club or puts it in as a loan the effect on the business is broadly the same. A buyer valuing the business would do so on the basis that these loans are nil and would factor the lower debt figure when valuing the club. You would always assume that shareholder loans would be dealt with as part of the overall sale price. Considering the amount on-loaned from SJHL to NUFC the loans are worth more than NUFC as a business unit (ie NUFC is negative equity) and it's hard to see that situation being resolved any time soon. So Ashley can't expect the loans to be repaid for a lower value of his shares- he'd have to be paying someone for taking the shares off him in that scenario!

Any prospective buyer who is prepared to inherit debts to former owners which far outweigh the actual value in the club would need to be clinically certified. Forget these 'loans'. They do not exist. They are merely paper transactions to simplify Ashley's tax position. When you are faces with a buyout situation where there are shareholder loans then these loans are considered as quasi-equity and settled into the overall bargain. Kitman could not be more wrong- the debt should be totally written off, at a discount, as part of the wholesale price. People are not buying this club to make money. Football is a SHIT business. You are better off putting your money in government bonds and going off for a wank. People are buying this for the control element. Leaving in massive debt to former owners removes this element of control and would negate the one reason for actually buying the club. If we are sold, the intercompany loans would be gone, or we'd be in the hands of genuine idiots.

I find it hard to beleive that any new owner would agree to the loans remaining- this would effectively leave the club in Ashley's economic control, even if he had sold the equity.

Spot on. And the extra wages from still having the high wage bill Owen, Martins, Viduka, Duff et al would still be here? Unlikely.

Spot on.

I see Paul Myners is now telling execs at HSBC and Standard Chartered (easily the safest of all major UK banks) to give up their pay for a year. All this from a man who has made himself millions from the banking industry.

Happy 22nd!

I think people seem to believe that Ashley bought the club and on day 2 was told "oh theres another £150m debt you didnt know about". Thats not the case, he knew exactly what the debt position was, he merely didnt know that some of it had to be paid back immediately. Being asked to pay £57 million is a big deal.... That's what happens when you don't do even the most basic of research- he moaned about the sponsorship cash having been paid up front- maybe he should have read the balance sheet before he bought the club then.

If he sells up, any money loaned by Ashley would be settled as part of the sale (not necessarily at full face value)

Twenty percent? Did they get that from Wonga.com?

I'd have him in a shot.

There is zero chance of HMRC relenting. If anything, breaking a PL club will give the message to clubs at all levels that they mean business when it comes to unpaid tax. I don't really see much of a way out as clearly no-one fancies buying them as a business. Interesting how the fans haven't been clubbing together in an attempt to take over the club and pay off the outstanding debts. If they care that much about the club, you'd think there'd been a bit more of a public effort, rather than waiting for another white knight.

How many injury time goals do they score?

Aspers has all minimum and maximum bets on LCD displays on each table. Weekends is typically £5 minimum for blackjack and even roulette bets though there are cheaper ones during the week. Whatever you are planning to gamble on near-even stakes (red or black on roulette, or blackjack) take at least 20 times that stake, otherwise you will be going home empty handed.

Taking into account what his agent gets as part of it all, it's £80k.

Certainly piles on the pressure for Saturday's TV fest. Forest are flagging of late, we need to hope they keep it up. WBA seem to be getting some consistency together. Going to be very close at the end of the season.

Maybe his Virgin design won't lose its rear wing and kill a driver.

Ashley cannot succeed long-term. The bridges have been burned and soon as things go slightly wrong it will all kick off again. Same thing with Shepherd & Hall after the NOTW incident. The instability set in at the top and worked its way down. Long-term stability will only be generated if there is an element of trust between the club and its most important source of revenue and that is never going to happen under Ashley. His best hope would be to step away from the club and act as a holding investor only, while a competent management team got on with the job of building the business rather than leaving it to a mate who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

Always end up with shitty fruit and veg but for non-perishables it's the business and pretty much essentials for bums like me who don't have a car.

I'm assuming B&WB is being paid for all this- every post he makes is linking off-site.

Loan now, buy out of inevitable administration for next to nothing.