Redshadow

...and Milan bet against themselves at half-time. In Spain, wouldn't Benitez have worked under / alongside a DoF who was buying the players? Maybe he isn't that used to buying his own players and it shows a bit. Because it seems his tactics (especially in Europe) are spot on but I agree with Mr. Pond that Liverpool haven't really progressed in terms of challenging for the PL in the time Benitez has been there. What would you define as a good buy Alex? You see I hear this all the time about Benitez but if you look at what he does, his signings all make sense. The squad that Houllier left was abysmal in as much as after his illness he seemed to buy players just for the sake of it and many turned out to be duds who had to be replaced by Rafa. With far less money than Houllier had he slowly started to rebuild the squad with Xabi Alonso and Luis Garcia being the two players he'd rely on until he could up the quality in the rest of the team. He brought in gap fillers costing nothing or just a couple of million as cover for injuries and to keep players fresh. He's carried that on each season with only last season being the year he could start buying players who cost over 10 million, the only other 10 million+ he's been able to buy being Alonso.

No he hasn't mounted a serious challenge. He has made us a consistant qualifier for CL though, which would be progress in anyones eyes. Do you actually know how many times he's finished 4th in 4 years? I love it when 'fans' act all knowledgable about other clubs than their own and then show themselves up. LFC have finished above Arsenal twice in the last 4 seasons. All teams rely on their best players, Liverpool are no different, but if you are saying that Mascherano, Agger, Reina and Alonso aren't title quality then your own team must be full of pub footballers. I would also include Carra in that lot but he's 30 now so maybe it's a little late for him to show his top form. Benitez has also brought some quality young players to the club who just need a couple of more seasons to develop.

Rafa has never and won’t ever be a makeweight, Torres is right, you’re talking bollocks. Maybe the fact that he’s only finished 4th once in his four years at the helm proves he doesn’t settle for it? Keegan had plenty of money to spend and he still couldn’t do it, and he wasn’t even faced with two clubs who could mega outspend him, one who could even outspend any club on the planet. Keegan definitely won’t last the year out. The spine players Rafa has brought in have been brilliant buys and I often read on this board that it will take time with your own club, why can’t you see it’s the same for Benitez? He hasn’t bought one high priced player who has failed, and he’s bought a few quality bargains in Skirtl and Agger who will hold the middle of defence for the next 10 years. In Reina, Dossena(hopefully) Skirtl, Agger, Mascherano, Babel, Kuyt and Torres, supplemented with Carra and Gerrard Rafa is building a team of quality. That he can’t do it all at once is quite obvious, we don’t have the money, so he fills the squad out with 2nd or 3rd tier players so we at least have a full squad. Take the best two players from any team and they’ll more than likely fail, it’s a ridiculous comment. Shockingly clueless. With nothing to back up your comment, your words are meaningless. Yeah but when I write meaningless words I don't drag it out into two and a bit para's....Yes? True, but mine have real meaning. That you haven't tried to rip it apart shows a certain amount of agrreement in part. I think you actually respect Rafa despite your comments to the contrary. Peraps. A lot of reds over the last couple of seasons have fallen back on this spend/quality of player argument. You need to look beyond that. There are real barriers to Benny's ability to succeed and comparing spend is only one part of it. But it does come down to money in many respects Park Life. There aren't many fans, or more importantly owners, prepared to wait for a team to be built from scratch, our owners in particular would be happy for Champions League qualification, and a good run in it, every season. It's where the money is, Premiership glory is second to that for them.

And yet the stats say differently. well ok - you had the lowest number of goals conceded - 7 seasons ago. 3rd lowest last season, '08 Joint 2nd lowest the season before, '07 2nd lowest, '06 It hardly points to a weak back four.

Rafa has never and won’t ever be a makeweight, Torres is right, you’re talking bollocks. Maybe the fact that he’s only finished 4th once in his four years at the helm proves he doesn’t settle for it? Keegan had plenty of money to spend and he still couldn’t do it, and he wasn’t even faced with two clubs who could mega outspend him, one who could even outspend any club on the planet. Keegan definitely won’t last the year out. The spine players Rafa has brought in have been brilliant buys and I often read on this board that it will take time with your own club, why can’t you see it’s the same for Benitez? He hasn’t bought one high priced player who has failed, and he’s bought a few quality bargains in Skirtl and Agger who will hold the middle of defence for the next 10 years. In Reina, Dossena(hopefully) Skirtl, Agger, Mascherano, Babel, Kuyt and Torres, supplemented with Carra and Gerrard Rafa is building a team of quality. That he can’t do it all at once is quite obvious, we don’t have the money, so he fills the squad out with 2nd or 3rd tier players so we at least have a full squad. Take the best two players from any team and they’ll more than likely fail, it’s a ridiculous comment. Shockingly clueless. With nothing to back up your comment, your words are meaningless. Yeah but when I write meaningless words I don't drag it out into two and a bit para's....Yes? True, but mine have real meaning. That you haven't tried to rip it apart shows a certain amount of agrreement in part. I think you actually respect Rafa despite your comments to the contrary.

Rafa has never and won’t ever be a makeweight, Torres is right, you’re talking bollocks. Maybe the fact that he’s only finished 4th once in his four years at the helm proves he doesn’t settle for it? Keegan had plenty of money to spend and he still couldn’t do it, and he wasn’t even faced with two clubs who could mega outspend him, one who could even outspend any club on the planet. Keegan definitely won’t last the year out. The spine players Rafa has brought in have been brilliant buys and I often read on this board that it will take time with your own club, why can’t you see it’s the same for Benitez? He hasn’t bought one high priced player who has failed, and he’s bought a few quality bargains in Skirtl and Agger who will hold the middle of defence for the next 10 years. In Reina, Dossena(hopefully) Skirtl, Agger, Mascherano, Babel, Kuyt and Torres, supplemented with Carra and Gerrard Rafa is building a team of quality. That he can’t do it all at once is quite obvious, we don’t have the money, so he fills the squad out with 2nd or 3rd tier players so we at least have a full squad. Take the best two players from any team and they’ll more than likely fail, it’s a ridiculous comment. Shockingly clueless. With nothing to back up your comment, your words are meaningless.

And yet the stats say differently.

Rafa has never and won’t ever be a makeweight, Torres is right, you’re talking bollocks. Maybe the fact that he’s only finished 4th once in his four years at the helm proves he doesn’t settle for it? Keegan had plenty of money to spend and he still couldn’t do it, and he wasn’t even faced with two clubs who could mega outspend him, one who could even outspend any club on the planet. Keegan definitely won’t last the year out. The spine players Rafa has brought in have been brilliant buys and I often read on this board that it will take time with your own club, why can’t you see it’s the same for Benitez? He hasn’t bought one high priced player who has failed, and he’s bought a few quality bargains in Skirtl and Agger who will hold the middle of defence for the next 10 years. In Reina, Dossena(hopefully) Skirtl, Agger, Mascherano, Babel, Kuyt and Torres, supplemented with Carra and Gerrard Rafa is building a team of quality. That he can’t do it all at once is quite obvious, we don’t have the money, so he fills the squad out with 2nd or 3rd tier players so we at least have a full squad. Take the best two players from any team and they’ll more than likely fail, it’s a ridiculous comment.

Benitez has only come 4th once in his four years at Anfield but most posts on this thread appear to think we're 4th every year. Not that it matters because I'm of the Shanks school of thought anyway, which is, first is first and second is nowhere, never have taken any pride in finishing less than top and we've finished runners up many times in our history. A failure in my eyes.

I can't say I'm not glad to see him gone, I found his dogmatic support for EVERYTHING Tory quite appalling, in that he used his radio presentership to further that support. He never had a good word about Labour and equally not a bad one for the Tories. Or that's how I preceived histewardship because, like somebody else said, since Tommy Boyd left, Talksport has lost it's appeal for me, except for dipping in and out of while driving. I'm all for healthy debate but expect the presenter to act as devils advocate and to encompass all views, and most importantly, to give people a decent chance to state their view, not be cut off with a response coming only after the cut off. Most Talksport presenters do this, Boyd was one of a very few who didn't. Good riddance I say, hopefully the guy on of a morning goes the same way.

This is a bit of a negative thread, most places have their good and bad areas. I love where I live and wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but for nice places to look at I like York, Edinburgh (ok not English), Chester and quite a few others. For a good piss up most cities have the bars, clubs and entertainment to have a good time. Glasgow is one of my favourites, but if we can't include Scottish cities then the best time I've had outside of my own city has to be Manchester. I do find Preston depressing but I think that's because every time I drive through it's raining.

I buy hub caps

Appearently we're going upmarket and preparing a 25million bid for David Villa. Now that would be great if it came off. Your lot are so broke you want 20mil for Crouch and tried to barter some nobodies to us for Milner and Finnan and some others for Barry, but you've got 25mil to bid for David Villa? 18mil out for Barry - 10mil in for Crouch...you're still down 8mil. Where's this money going to come from? How do you know all that is true? I doubt we were even seriously in for Milner at all, Pennant is better imo. Insua being one of the possible youngsters offered shows how wrong the speculation was, he's a great little player and far too good to let go. With sales and the 20 million budget given by the owners Rafa could have around 50 million to spend. I don't think he'll go for Villa but it's not an impossibility. Benitez on Crouch: Also, a few people in the press were talking about £7million – so then I talked about £15million because I wanted to protect the club. This will be Benny's last season at Anfield. If the press have anything to do with it, it will. Agreed 100% here. He might not last till Christmas. They've got their knives out for him already, imo. For me, the Milner link is just too pervasive to be completely made-up. I doubt he was first choice for Liverpool but I don't doubt for a moment they've enquired. While you're visiting, what do you really think of Barry? I'm more than a little sceptical, don't think he's nearly worth 18mil and I don't think having one decent season and some England action justifies the kind of silly money that Villa want for him. You're right, Barry has only had one good season and is nowhere near worth the fee MON appears to be sticking too. I think Liverpool should walk away now that he's bought Sidwell, see how quickly the price comes down then. Alonso is a better player altogether, even though he has been off form for a while, and I don't understand why we are selling him and replacing him with Barry.

Appearently we're going upmarket and preparing a 25million bid for David Villa. Now that would be great if it came off. Your lot are so broke you want 20mil for Crouch and tried to barter some nobodies to us for Milner and Finnan and some others for Barry, but you've got 25mil to bid for David Villa? 18mil out for Barry - 10mil in for Crouch...you're still down 8mil. Where's this money going to come from? How do you know all that is true? I doubt we were even seriously in for Milner at all, Pennant is better imo. Insua being one of the possible youngsters offered shows how wrong the speculation was, he's a great little player and far too good to let go. With sales and the 20 million budget given by the owners Rafa could have around 50 million to spend. I don't think he'll go for Villa but it's not an impossibility. Benitez on Crouch: Also, a few people in the press were talking about £7million – so then I talked about £15million because I wanted to protect the club. This will be Benny's last season at Anfield. If the press have anything to do with it, it will.

Appearently we're going upmarket and preparing a 25million bid for David Villa. Now that would be great if it came off. Your lot are so broke you want 20mil for Crouch and tried to barter some nobodies to us for Milner and Finnan and some others for Barry, but you've got 25mil to bid for David Villa? 18mil out for Barry - 10mil in for Crouch...you're still down 8mil. Where's this money going to come from? How do you know all that is true? I doubt we were even seriously in for Milner at all, Pennant is better imo. Insua being one of the possible youngsters offered shows how wrong the speculation was, he's a great little player and far too good to let go. With sales and the 20 million budget given by the owners Rafa could have around 50 million to spend. I don't think he'll go for Villa but it's not an impossibility. Benitez on Crouch: Also, a few people in the press were talking about £7million – so then I talked about £15million because I wanted to protect the club.

Pathetic, like all the Irish, you lot and most Northerners going to London in the 80s on the building, working in hotels, basically anything that earned a wedge, why not settle where you want. I have a couple of Geordie mates and i have stayed up there numerous times, even last season at the game, but the ones on the net, the big mouth warriors are the cunts, the ones i know are alright, does this Stevie go the game, i bet he is quiet as a mouse if he does go away with you lot, or is he the type like those cunts last season who done a youtube video at 11am walking around the ground picking on an old man walking his dog, gang of shithouses and i feel sorry for the decent ones who are going to pay for that. If the bit in bold doesn't sum scousers up I don't know what does. A few 14 year old kids shouting abuse at some old bloke, which happens to find its way on to youtube, which means every Newcastle fan is fair game for a slap in the future for retribution?? You really are a collective bunch of wanks. I wince when I think about yous, and I know there are good scousers, but they're heavily outweighed by state scroungers, scruffs, and general arrogant tossers from the area. As for me not going, I've had a season ticket longer than you've been alive this will be my 17th as a season ticket holder, and no doubt I've been to Anfield as many times as you. Quiet as a mouse? Nah mate. I think Toonraider sums up a nations view of you to be honest, I mean you'll get the do-gooders but let me tell you, the national view of you, puts you slightly below gypsies. What Liverpool site did you post this link on? I don't discriminate against any set of people in this country and knowing quite a few Geordies, I'll take it that you're a one off tosser who thinks shouting the odds on an internet forum is a way of feeding your own sad ego. You're jealously obsessed with Liverpool and Scousers for whatever reason, but you can't see that you come across as every bit of a nobhead as the people you try to put down from other areas. You wouldn't last 5 minutes down here, willing to bet you don't speak this way in reality in your own area because underneath it all you're just a small person with a big mouth who nobody respects. Reading your posts on here you always put me in mind of a cross between Ian Paisley and the Rab C Nesbitt character, both obnoxious, both loud mouthed and go in to rages at the drop of a hat, and both laughed at for their repulsive prejudices. Now we have you not only speaking for Geordies but a whole nation as well, fuck me, what is it next, you speaking for the world? What a loser.

SHOCK new figures? Where's the shock exactly. 26% of the population on benefits, TWICE the national average, TWENTY SIX PERCENT, and people like me and you are paying for them. You read more about Liverpool the city than I do and I'm born and bred here. What is it that makes you so obsessive about us? Is it that we have a larger world wide image than Newcastle, or that our football teams are more successful? The fact that more people in the entertainment business have come from Liverpool? What the fuck is it with you? There isn't anywhere in Britain I'd go and read their local paper website, what are you looking for? Surely you don't expect to read anything about Newcastle there. For the record, Liverpool has had, and still has a big unemployment problem, and yes, a benefits problem. It usually isn't about not wanting to work though, it's more about shit wages being offered for unskilled work. Of course there are lazy bastards as well but everywhere has them, that's part and parcel of this country as a whole. Did I miss this part in your paste job? When the Breck Road store opened in November 2005, nearly 3,000 people applied for 277 new jobs, and 28% were long-term unemployed or on incapacity or disability benefits. The landmark Liverpool One shopping development has also helped in the battle against unemployment. When it fully opens at the end of September, up to 5,000 jobs will have been created. Flagship store John Lewis attracted nearly 4,500 applicants for its 288 vacancies, 15 people for every job. Another 4,000 people applied for 500 vacancies at the new Debenhams, eight people for each job. More than 1,200 people also applied to work on the 150-strong dedicated Liverpool One team. I know that doesn't enhance the image you love to push but live with it. I personally think Liverpool One will be the factor that puts Liverpool back to where it was before the dock employment went in to decline, I say dock employment because the Docks itself are handling more tonnage now than it ever did, containers taking the place of docker gangs loading and unloading ships. Tourist figures have been rising year on year for the last 20 years and with the new investment and more attractions things are already starting to look up here. Disappointing for you isn't it? It's good to see that most of your fellow fans either aren't interested or see through your obsessive hate. I pasted this off a Newcastle board, funny enough it was a Wigan fan who put it up advising us on where our fucking tax was going. Anyone can make stats up 10000 applied for 2 vacancies in the fuckin Liverpool Job Centre....all lies. I couldn't give a fuck about Liverpool, but the reason I pasted the link in there was you're a bunch of fucking tramps who are taking our taxes. TWENTY SIX FUCKIN PERCENT. You thieving tramps. Even The Fish thinks your population are cunts, and the only thing I've seen him moan about was his sisters eating habits and bowel problems. You mention people in the entertainment business from Liverpool? I think fuckin Tarby sets the standard. Why mention your entertainment business to justify the fact almost a third of your population don't work.....through choice. Your larger worldwide image than Newcastle, does that give you a big fuck off hard on, if your image is anything like it is in the UK, worldwide you will be beneath Zimbabwe. Your best point of the lot........ "Tourist figures have been rising year on year for the last 20 year" 20 years ago it would be more certain that a tourist would get robbed there than your dole centres closing due to 0% unemployment. At the end of the day your city is shit, your people are shit, and you are bamps, but all I did was bring up an interesting topic which was on another toon board. Don't know about a hard on, I was far too busy laughing my cock off at your post. I don't have to make stats up, they were in the very same article you posted but chose to omit. So a Wigan fan posted it on a Newcastle board? Weird. Thieving tramps? Get a grip lad, you’re sounding farcical now. I mention the entertainment business, football, and world wide image as a question about your obsessive jealousy, nothing to do with unemployment, and I have no need to justify anything at all to anyone, least of all to some Scouse obsessed dribbler. When did 26% become a third btw? You need to practice maths as well as facts. Our world wide image outside of the UK is fantastic, no problems there. Have always been welcomed warmly in every country I’ve ever been in as soon as they hear I’m from Liverpool, and c’mon, even a fool like you knows there’s more to Liverpool ‘s entertainment claims than Jimmy Tarbuck, but let’s not get in to the number of actors, musicians and bands that come from our respective home towns, you’ll lose. Our city is one of the finest in the UK and is recognised as such by many people, that you’re not one of them is no great loss; your obsession with us speaks volumes. The tourists don’t appear to have your fear of being robbed as they are coming in ever increasing numbers and loving it I might add. You brought up a topic that feeds your overall insecurity in your own self worth, nothing more than that.

SHOCK new figures? Where's the shock exactly. 26% of the population on benefits, TWICE the national average, TWENTY SIX PERCENT, and people like me and you are paying for them. You read more about Liverpool the city than I do and I'm born and bred here. What is it that makes you so obsessive about us? Is it that we have a larger world wide image than Newcastle, or that our football teams are more successful? The fact that more people in the entertainment business have come from Liverpool? What the fuck is it with you? There isn't anywhere in Britain I'd go and read their local paper website, what are you looking for? Surely you don't expect to read anything about Newcastle there. For the record, Liverpool has had, and still has a big unemployment problem, and yes, a benefits problem. It usually isn't about not wanting to work though, it's more about shit wages being offered for unskilled work. Of course there are lazy bastards as well but everywhere has them, that's part and parcel of this country as a whole. Did I miss this part in your paste job? When the Breck Road store opened in November 2005, nearly 3,000 people applied for 277 new jobs, and 28% were long-term unemployed or on incapacity or disability benefits. The landmark Liverpool One shopping development has also helped in the battle against unemployment. When it fully opens at the end of September, up to 5,000 jobs will have been created. Flagship store John Lewis attracted nearly 4,500 applicants for its 288 vacancies, 15 people for every job. Another 4,000 people applied for 500 vacancies at the new Debenhams, eight people for each job. More than 1,200 people also applied to work on the 150-strong dedicated Liverpool One team. I know that doesn't enhance the image you love to push but live with it. I personally think Liverpool One will be the factor that puts Liverpool back to where it was before the dock employment went in to decline, I say dock employment because the Docks itself are handling more tonnage now than it ever did, containers taking the place of docker gangs loading and unloading ships. Tourist figures have been rising year on year for the last 20 years and with the new investment and more attractions things are already starting to look up here. Disappointing for you isn't it? It's good to see that most of your fellow fans either aren't interested or see through your obsessive hate.

I think he will, but patience is the key. He has made great strides in his time here and is a fabulous manager. He can only spend what he`s given. if he wants to win the league he shouldnt be buying players like milner, pennant, benayoun. If gerrard or torres were to get a serious injury for you next season and miss the majority of the season i dont think you will finish in the top 4 you would be up shit creek without gerrard or torres like . and rafa rotates quality with shiite , thinks he has manu's squad , difference is there squad players would probably start for most prem teams , yours wouldnt . you cant say he can only spend what he's given when he's spent 150million quid in 4 year(50-60mill back in?) . your no closer than with houlier . As most teams would be shit without their top two players. Rafa doesn't rotate his main players that much. Reina, Carra, Skirtl, Sami,Gerrard, Torres are rarely out unless injured and Mascherano is only rotated when he's been away to South America. There are many of our players who'd start for most Prem teams, but Manure do have a much better squad, obviously, they won the league. Are you saying that most of the above players wouldn't start in your team? He's spent 20 million new money a season, the rest has been raised through player sales. Houllier didn't have us playing CL every season and the players he brought in after his illness were shit and he left a poor squad. He also had 6 years of trying. learn how to read spacker I'll bow to your superior skill but have to say if most of their squad players would get in to other Prem teams then it says even more about the lousey quality of the rest of the Prem than first thought. I'll accept, by your lack of answer, you were in agreement with the rest of my post.

I think he will, but patience is the key. He has made great strides in his time here and is a fabulous manager. He can only spend what he`s given. if he wants to win the league he shouldnt be buying players like milner, pennant, benayoun. If gerrard or torres were to get a serious injury for you next season and miss the majority of the season i dont think you will finish in the top 4 you would be up shit creek without gerrard or torres like . and rafa rotates quality with shiite , thinks he has manu's squad , difference is there squad players would probably start for most prem teams , yours wouldnt . you cant say he can only spend what he's given when he's spent 150million quid in 4 year(50-60mill back in?) . your no closer than with houlier . As most teams would be shit without their top two players. Rafa doesn't rotate his main players that much. Reina, Carra, Skirtl, Sami,Gerrard, Torres are rarely out unless injured and Mascherano is only rotated when he's been away to South America. There are many of our players who'd start for most Prem teams, but Manure do have a much better squad, obviously, they won the league. Are you saying that most of the above players wouldn't start in your team? He's spent 20 million new money a season, the rest has been raised through player sales. Houllier didn't have us playing CL every season and the players he brought in after his illness were shit and he left a poor squad. He also had 6 years of trying.

Clueless? One of you is, that's for certain.

Exactly Torres. Rafa is building, adding more quality each season, usually having to sell to buy for a large part of his budget. With players of the quality of Reina, Skirtl, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso (hopefully) Babel, Lucas and Torres he has brought together the nucleus of a fine team. Add Carra and Gerrard and he's only looking to buy a few top quality players. That's where the standstill could come this season. With no money forthcoming it looks like Rafa will be shopping in the bargain basement instead of getting at least two of his first choices. He'd rather have fast, forward thinking full backs than recognised wingers, so I'm not sure where Milner would fit in.

I find this a very strange one. Firstly the supposed 10 million offer. Never in a million years, no offence meant but he just isn't worth it, I'd rather keep Pennant. Then this artcle today in your local. Insua is the Liverpool player most likely to make the step up next season, he's a fantastic little player and has had kopites excited for the whole of last season. Hobbs is far from a donkey, he's going to be a great defender when he matures, and with English players being at a premium will undoubtably bring in a significant sum if he doesn't make the first team.

But they're all in the same city.

Why do you call them Mackems?