Redshadow

I agree with this, I do think Everton will be next to go Well, Everton would cost less than us, but they don't have a ground like us and need a new one. Newcastle also have a massively superior brand name, for instance the one club city, Newcastle brown ale, and bigger support and at the moment anyway, they can appoint any manager they please. Fear is that someone good would come along and bid less than Ashley wants and they bugger off somewhere else, like Everton. Everton have won titles in the past, nine league titles they've won which is more than us and the mackems, Chelsea and Spurs. However, no one really classes them as a big club in the modern game. Their fanbase is very much on the decrease, 20 years ago, Everton had more fans on Merseyside than Liverpool, because of the fickle nature of new football fans, Liverpool seem to be garnering a lot of young fans in the area these days due to their success and big umph factor than Everton. They are dying as a club. If you look at realistically across the country, would you say Everton are in the top ten supporters in England? I certainly wouldn't. It's not like I'm stuck in the North East, when I'm working in London I see fans of every club, you come across so many toon fans in London, and I'm not just saying it, Fulham away there's as many southern accents in the toon end as geordie. Everton have a mediocre fanbase, and it's largely centred on Merseyside which is the most deprived area in Britain. Their most expensive tickets are THIRTY FOUR QUID, they have three executive boxes, they've just come fifth in the league and last week they had only 34,000 paying people there. Now if they put prices up to our level, which I believe are extortionate, I think they'd struggle to get 25,000. I know an Everton fan, and he agrees the prices are low because it's in a very deprived area of the country. Liverpool's match going support, 40% of them aren't from the area so they can cope overall with higher prices. I think of all of the clubs Everton would be the worst investment, you might get them for £150m less than us, but you'd have to build a new ground which would be full twice a season, and be stuck with a mediocre fanbase, and a club who the media just are not bothered about. It's true what people say about them, they're just plain old Everton. If I was an investor they'd be the last team I would buy. Now every point of listed there for Everton, is 100% different with Newcastle, in everything apart from their four extra trophies, they are incomparable to us even at this stage, and I think anyone that's been involved with Newcastle knows we have fulfilled not even half of our potential on and off the park. That is absolute poppycock and you know it. Liverpool do have a very large world wide fanbase but the majority of match going reds are from the L postcode area. The percentages are slightly more than Everton, but still pretty much in line in line with both clubs attendances. Why do you continue to make up things up, your lying is quite pathetic now? Out of the last 70 years Everton have only had a higher average than Liverpool 14 times. That’s 14 against 66. Yes, that's 70 years, not 20, you stupid numbnuts. They don’t come much more hypocritical than you. One minute you tell everyone that Newcastle is supported by 99% Newcastle people, and here you are getting quite horny about having so many Southern speaking Toon fans. A football club is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and Everton have a lot going for it in terms of a buyer coming in. They have a world wide fanbase, not nearly as big as Liverpool and Man U, but big enough. They have two sites offered by the city council for a new ground and they have a great history and tradition. A new ground would see any investor, willing to wait a few years, gaining a good return on their money. Building a new ground where there is almost guaranteed planning permission is very attractive to big money investors. I admit that being in the same city as Englands most decorated club is a bit of a drawback for investors, but not to very rich Arabs as it can be overcome, much as we did to Everton when Shanks built his dynasty. Liverpool will cost around a billion for Dubai if their deal ever comes off and they build the new ground, that must make you feel really sick. If you wrote your little piece as some kind of wind up, I'm afraid you've failed, it just comes across as your usual lying bollicks and blind belief that Newcastle is the biggest club in the world. Try and learn from Park Life, he's an excellent WUM because he does it with humour and intelligence. Oops

I agree with this, I do think Everton will be next to go Well, Everton would cost less than us, but they don't have a ground like us and need a new one. Newcastle also have a massively superior brand name, for instance the one club city, Newcastle brown ale, and bigger support and at the moment anyway, they can appoint any manager they please. Fear is that someone good would come along and bid less than Ashley wants and they bugger off somewhere else, like Everton. Everton have won titles in the past, nine league titles they've won which is more than us and the mackems, Chelsea and Spurs. However, no one really classes them as a big club in the modern game. Their fanbase is very much on the decrease, 20 years ago, Everton had more fans on Merseyside than Liverpool, because of the fickle nature of new football fans, Liverpool seem to be garnering a lot of young fans in the area these days due to their success and big umph factor than Everton. They are dying as a club. If you look at realistically across the country, would you say Everton are in the top ten supporters in England? I certainly wouldn't. It's not like I'm stuck in the North East, when I'm working in London I see fans of every club, you come across so many toon fans in London, and I'm not just saying it, Fulham away there's as many southern accents in the toon end as geordie. Everton have a mediocre fanbase, and it's largely centred on Merseyside which is the most deprived area in Britain. Their most expensive tickets are THIRTY FOUR QUID, they have three executive boxes, they've just come fifth in the league and last week they had only 34,000 paying people there. Now if they put prices up to our level, which I believe are extortionate, I think they'd struggle to get 25,000. I know an Everton fan, and he agrees the prices are low because it's in a very deprived area of the country. Liverpool's match going support, 40% of them aren't from the area so they can cope overall with higher prices. I think of all of the clubs Everton would be the worst investment, you might get them for £150m less than us, but you'd have to build a new ground which would be full twice a season, and be stuck with a mediocre fanbase, and a club who the media just are not bothered about. It's true what people say about them, they're just plain old Everton. If I was an investor they'd be the last team I would buy. Now every point of listed there for Everton, is 100% different with Newcastle, in everything apart from their four extra trophies, they are incomparable to us even at this stage, and I think anyone that's been involved with Newcastle knows we have fulfilled not even half of our potential on and off the park. That is absolute poppycock and you know it. Liverpool do have a very large world wide fanbase but the majority of match going reds are from the L postcode area. The percentages are slightly more than Everton, but still pretty much in line in line with both clubs attendances. Why do you continue to make up things up, your lying is quite pathetic now? Out of the last 70 years Everton have only had a higher average than Liverpool 14 times. That’s 14 against 56. Yes, that's 70 years, not 20, you stupid numbnuts. They don’t come much more hypocritical than you. One minute you tell everyone that Newcastle is supported by 99% Newcastle people, and here you are getting quite horny about having so many Southern speaking Toon fans. A football club is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and Everton have a lot going for it in terms of a buyer coming in. They have a world wide fanbase, not nearly as big as Liverpool and Man U, but big enough. They have two sites offered by the city council for a new ground and they have a great history and tradition. A new ground would see any investor, willing to wait a few years, gaining a good return on their money. Building a new ground where there is almost guaranteed planning permission is very attractive to big money investors. I admit that being in the same city as Englands most decorated club is a bit of a drawback for investors, but not to very rich Arabs as it can be overcome, much as we did to Everton when Shanks built his dynasty. Liverpool will cost around a billion for Dubai if their deal ever comes off and they build the new ground, that must make you feel really sick. If you wrote your little piece as some kind of wind up, I'm afraid you've failed, it just comes across as your usual lying bollicks and blind belief that Newcastle is the biggest club in the world. Try and learn from Park Life, he's an excellent WUM because he does it with humour and intelligence.

Where's that coming from Nick? There's the bit about him whoring Everton, from the Beeb. He's 100% right there, and for decades. What the fuck is it with you? Measuring your club size in column inches and attendances, while all the time trying to degrade other clubs claims to whatever. You're pathetic and anyone using column inches, all of the wrong kind, to show a clubs esteem is an idiot. I would love my club to only appear in the headlines for great achievments, and hate, as we've had since the Yanks, too much publicity of the negative kind. From an outsiders point of view Newcastle has always courted negative publicity. The press knew from KK leaving SJP in a helicopter way back, to trouble between KK and Wise now, that Newcastle wouldn't fail to give them a story, FS quote, or yet another manager sacking, for the nation to laugh at. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh to the rest of the posters on here, I haven't come here to offend but reading this whoppers posts has a negative effect on opposition posters. I had come on here to wish you all luck in your endeavours to keep KK and get Ashley to sell up, or play the game as it should be played. I still wish you all that and have complete sympathy with your feelings over KK, that's one horrible fucking gutted feeling in the pit of the stomach when you know the heirarchy of a club want to get rid of the only one you feel will progress your club, and it's even more unbearable when that man is someone you all dearly love and respect for what he's already done for your club, and for the passion and respect he holds for the fans. I sincerely hope KK comes out of this, still your manager but with a lot more power. As for your ramblings RabC/Ian Paisley, for many decades there was a traditional big 5 in English football, Spurs and Everton being two of those. Spurs have always had a high profile, probably because of the big name players they've had over the years including the best striker ever Jimmy Greaves. As for Everton punching above their weight for decades their millionnaire chairman only retired in '77, they were known as the millionnaires club because of him and their power to buy players. They did exceptionally well through the '80's and as things stand are way ahead of you in the trophy stakes. 9 league titles, the last one being in the 80's, is not something the likes of you in particular have the right to sneer at. You can answer this or not, I won't get involved (which also means you can sit making up your usual lies that you think will prove your point, but never do) the fans of your club have enough grief atm without seeing another dreary big club argument. Best of luck fellas.

who's the only British player to win European Footballer of the year while playing abroad ? Lots of myths follow Keegan around. As a manager, he's "tactically naive" despite beating the crap out of all the tactical geniuses. As a player, he was "workmanlike" and made the most of limited ability. Utter tosh. His dynamism made the most of his playing attributes, one of which was pace, and a great finisher in the box, alled to being a complete team player which is the reason he was part of teams that shared goals around. Was England's best player of the 70's without question and the best player in Europe for a while. Apparently though, according to the dippers, he wasnt as good as Carragher, Barnes or Fowler It isn't always the best players who get the awards. Keegan made himself a high profile player with his adverts, records, superstars and then moving to Europe. He was also a great player for England who were still regarded as a great team at the time. You’ll always get young ones voting for current players Chez and I think the goal you liked was one against Watford. Let’s get one thing straight, Kevin Keegan was a great player for Liverpool and was the final piece in Shanks championship winning second team, some would say the best piece. He certainly brought a new enthusiasm to the team and his partnership with Toshack was legendary. That he served Liverpool well is not in question. That he was a great player is not in question, he undoubtedly was, and what he lacked in pure talent he made up for with passion and a will to win. But Kenny also played with enthusiasm, passion and a will to win, and also like Keegan was rarely injured. But Kenny was just a rare player with fantastic talent and to watch him every week was a joy to behold, you became transfixed , you knew as soon as he got the ball something would happen. He could hold off any amount of defenders and he could turn them inside out if he chose. His running off the ball was awesome He was the ultimate team player with fantastic individual ability and is regarded by most who seen him as the best player Liverpool have ever had by a long chalk. KK would be in my top 5 but my top 3 Liverpool players would be. Kenny Dalglish John Barnes Graham Souness Even Bob Paisley and Shanks regarded Kenny as the best player ever to wear a Liverpool shirt. "I suppose above everything else when you try to assess Kenny's importance you must talk about his attitude to the game. He just wanted to play football. He had tremendous skill and the ability to set the pace of the game for the other players around him. When I had to sell Kevin Keegan to Hamburg – and we didn't have any choice because Kevin wanted to go to Europe – I didn't think it would be possible to replace him. Yet we did it so easily by buying Kenny from Celtic. In many ways he was a better player for Liverpool than Kevin was. Kenny is a model professional and was the best buy we ever made – it's as simple as that." Bob Paisley Franz Beckenbaur : "He is one of the best players I have ever seen and one of the best players in the history of football." George Best: "When I was growing up my hero was Di Stefano. Kenny for me was on a par with Di Stefano. That is the best compliment I can pay him." "Kenny Dalglish is probably the most modest man who has ever been handed the nickname 'King' but King Kenny he will always be." Former Scotland captain and Leeds United legend Billy Bremner "I never saw anyone in this country to touch him. I can think of only two players who could go ahead of him – Pele and possibly Cruyff. He was better than Maradona, Rummenigge or Platini. I would say that on his day he was, without any shadow of a doubt, the best player in the world." Graeme Souness And though both sets of fans have little time for Souness as a manager, as a player he was the best in the world in his position at the time, and I’ve seen no-one in this country to better him in that position. Amazing players as they were none of them could match Peter Beardsley for skill. Fuckin none of em. Peter rates Liverpool fans as ashite, he's said as much on various documentaries. If Peter Beardsley was playing now he;d be worth 80m and that's not me being biased its a fuckin fact. He'll always be the most unsung player Britain ever produced. There's a thing the dippers fans did "100 players who shook the kop" its like a video of decent Liverpool players, Beardsley laughably came about 15th, and Keegan 5th, and the scouse comedian who's a boring wank, have a look on youtube, says the same thing for both, they'd both be higher if their allegiances in the hearts were Liverpool and not Newcastle. If that doesnt sum them up then I donno what does. EDIT: What a gutless, big mouthed whopper you really are, I've only just noticed you'd edited your bile from when I first read it at 6am. Well that’s a real Ian Paisley rant. I can just imagine you sitting there at your keyboard, the spit coming out of your mouth as you rant the words aloud while typing your little diatribe. Peter Beardsley was a great player, there’s no doubting that, and he played in the best Liverpool side I’ve ever seen, but he doesn’t compare to the best players I’ve seen in a red shirt. As for him rating Liverpool fans as shite, I must have missed those docs and unless he’s very two faced, always speaks highly of the club and fans. Sadly, he couldn’t leave your club quick enough once Liverpool came in for him. As for allegiances making a difference, why, in that case, would KK be in the top ten at all? Take my 2 and 3 for instance. The John Barnes transfer saga went on forever because he didn’t want to move away from the South and was hoping that Arsenal would be able to afford him. That certainly didn’t endear him to Liverpool fans. Souness left for Sampadoria at his own choice and left a hole that we never managed to fill as effectively. Plus, he fucked us over as a manager and is still very much disliked because of it and his Sun alliance. It didn’t stop him being one of our greatest players and captains and rightfully take his place in the top ten. You have to accept that just because certain players are great for your club, doesn’t mean they have the same impact at other clubs they play for, who have better more talented players, and after all, it’s they who watched these players every week. I wouldn’t try to argue that Newcastles greatest player had been x,y or z simply because I’ve never watched them on a weekly basis.

who's the only British player to win European Footballer of the year while playing abroad ? Lots of myths follow Keegan around. As a manager, he's "tactically naive" despite beating the crap out of all the tactical geniuses. As a player, he was "workmanlike" and made the most of limited ability. Utter tosh. His dynamism made the most of his playing attributes, one of which was pace, and a great finisher in the box, alled to being a complete team player which is the reason he was part of teams that shared goals around. Was England's best player of the 70's without question and the best player in Europe for a while. Apparently though, according to the dippers, he wasnt as good as Carragher, Barnes or Fowler It isn't always the best players who get the awards. Keegan made himself a high profile player with his adverts, records, superstars and then moving to Europe. He was also a great player for England who were still regarded as a great team at the time. You’ll always get young ones voting for current players Chez and I think the goal you liked was one against Watford. Let’s get one thing straight, Kevin Keegan was a great player for Liverpool and was the final piece in Shanks championship winning second team, some would say the best piece. He certainly brought a new enthusiasm to the team and his partnership with Toshack was legendary. That he served Liverpool well is not in question. That he was a great player is not in question, he undoubtedly was, and what he lacked in pure talent he made up for with passion and a will to win. But Kenny also played with enthusiasm, passion and a will to win, and also like Keegan was rarely injured. But Kenny was just a rare player with fantastic talent and to watch him every week was a joy to behold, you became transfixed , you knew as soon as he got the ball something would happen. He could hold off any amount of defenders and he could turn them inside out if he chose. His running off the ball was awesome He was the ultimate team player with fantastic individual ability and is regarded by most who seen him as the best player Liverpool have ever had by a long chalk. KK would be in my top 5 but my top 3 Liverpool players would be. Kenny Dalglish John Barnes Graham Souness Even Bob Paisley and Shanks regarded Kenny as the best player ever to wear a Liverpool shirt. "I suppose above everything else when you try to assess Kenny's importance you must talk about his attitude to the game. He just wanted to play football. He had tremendous skill and the ability to set the pace of the game for the other players around him. When I had to sell Kevin Keegan to Hamburg – and we didn't have any choice because Kevin wanted to go to Europe – I didn't think it would be possible to replace him. Yet we did it so easily by buying Kenny from Celtic. In many ways he was a better player for Liverpool than Kevin was. Kenny is a model professional and was the best buy we ever made – it's as simple as that." Bob Paisley Franz Beckenbaur : "He is one of the best players I have ever seen and one of the best players in the history of football." George Best: "When I was growing up my hero was Di Stefano. Kenny for me was on a par with Di Stefano. That is the best compliment I can pay him." "Kenny Dalglish is probably the most modest man who has ever been handed the nickname 'King' but King Kenny he will always be." Former Scotland captain and Leeds United legend Billy Bremner "I never saw anyone in this country to touch him. I can think of only two players who could go ahead of him – Pele and possibly Cruyff. He was better than Maradona, Rummenigge or Platini. I would say that on his day he was, without any shadow of a doubt, the best player in the world." Graeme Souness And though both sets of fans have little time for Souness as a manager, as a player he was the best in the world in his position at the time, and I’ve seen no-one in this country to better him in that position. Not the first Sky Boy to prey on my knowledge, Sorry, I never consulted your post before answering Chez, my answer was from memory having been at the match. As for the skyboy jibe, I suggest you look in the mirror because it isn't me who continually uses 92 as a starting point for stats.

who's the only British player to win European Footballer of the year while playing abroad ? Lots of myths follow Keegan around. As a manager, he's "tactically naive" despite beating the crap out of all the tactical geniuses. As a player, he was "workmanlike" and made the most of limited ability. Utter tosh. His dynamism made the most of his playing attributes, one of which was pace, and a great finisher in the box, alled to being a complete team player which is the reason he was part of teams that shared goals around. Was England's best player of the 70's without question and the best player in Europe for a while. Apparently though, according to the dippers, he wasnt as good as Carragher, Barnes or Fowler It isn't always the best players who get the awards. Keegan made himself a high profile player with his adverts, records, superstars and then moving to Europe. He was also a great player for England who were still regarded as a great team at the time. You’ll always get young ones voting for current players Chez and I think the goal you liked was one against Watford. Let’s get one thing straight, Kevin Keegan was a great player for Liverpool and was the final piece in Shanks championship winning second team, some would say the best piece. He certainly brought a new enthusiasm to the team and his partnership with Toshack was legendary. That he served Liverpool well is not in question. That he was a great player is not in question, he undoubtedly was, and what he lacked in pure talent he made up for with passion and a will to win. But Kenny also played with enthusiasm, passion and a will to win, and also like Keegan was rarely injured. But Kenny was just a rare player with fantastic talent and to watch him every week was a joy to behold, you became transfixed , you knew as soon as he got the ball something would happen. He could hold off any amount of defenders and he could turn them inside out if he chose. His running off the ball was awesome He was the ultimate team player with fantastic individual ability and is regarded by most who seen him as the best player Liverpool have ever had by a long chalk. KK would be in my top 5 but my top 3 Liverpool players would be. Kenny Dalglish John Barnes Graham Souness Even Bob Paisley and Shanks regarded Kenny as the best player ever to wear a Liverpool shirt. "I suppose above everything else when you try to assess Kenny's importance you must talk about his attitude to the game. He just wanted to play football. He had tremendous skill and the ability to set the pace of the game for the other players around him. When I had to sell Kevin Keegan to Hamburg – and we didn't have any choice because Kevin wanted to go to Europe – I didn't think it would be possible to replace him. Yet we did it so easily by buying Kenny from Celtic. In many ways he was a better player for Liverpool than Kevin was. Kenny is a model professional and was the best buy we ever made – it's as simple as that." Bob Paisley Franz Beckenbaur : "He is one of the best players I have ever seen and one of the best players in the history of football." George Best: "When I was growing up my hero was Di Stefano. Kenny for me was on a par with Di Stefano. That is the best compliment I can pay him." "Kenny Dalglish is probably the most modest man who has ever been handed the nickname 'King' but King Kenny he will always be." Former Scotland captain and Leeds United legend Billy Bremner "I never saw anyone in this country to touch him. I can think of only two players who could go ahead of him – Pele and possibly Cruyff. He was better than Maradona, Rummenigge or Platini. I would say that on his day he was, without any shadow of a doubt, the best player in the world." Graeme Souness And though both sets of fans have little time for Souness as a manager, as a player he was the best in the world in his position at the time, and I’ve seen no-one in this country to better him in that position. thats a pretty decent fair post, and I note what you say. But, in my opinion, as good as Dalglish was, he is well behind Cruyff, Best and Maradona for starters. I realise the lying bastard and Billy Bremner have good opinions, but being team and international team mates, they are both biased. I agree about the bias Leazes but in this case they are underplaying it. I'm biased too.

who's the only British player to win European Footballer of the year while playing abroad ? Lots of myths follow Keegan around. As a manager, he's "tactically naive" despite beating the crap out of all the tactical geniuses. As a player, he was "workmanlike" and made the most of limited ability. Utter tosh. His dynamism made the most of his playing attributes, one of which was pace, and a great finisher in the box, alled to being a complete team player which is the reason he was part of teams that shared goals around. Was England's best player of the 70's without question and the best player in Europe for a while. Apparently though, according to the dippers, he wasnt as good as Carragher, Barnes or Fowler It isn't always the best players who get the awards. Keegan made himself a high profile player with his adverts, records, superstars and then moving to Europe. He was also a great player for England who were still regarded as a great team at the time. You’ll always get young ones voting for current players Chez and I think the goal you liked was one against Watford. Let’s get one thing straight, Kevin Keegan was a great player for Liverpool and was the final piece in Shanks championship winning second team, some would say the best piece. He certainly brought a new enthusiasm to the team and his partnership with Toshack was legendary. That he served Liverpool well is not in question. That he was a great player is not in question, he undoubtedly was, and what he lacked in pure talent he made up for with passion and a will to win. But Kenny also played with enthusiasm, passion and a will to win, and also like Keegan was rarely injured. But Kenny was just a rare player with fantastic talent and to watch him every week was a joy to behold, you became transfixed , you knew as soon as he got the ball something would happen. He could hold off any amount of defenders and he could turn them inside out if he chose. His running off the ball was awesome He was the ultimate team player with fantastic individual ability and is regarded by most who seen him as the best player Liverpool have ever had by a long chalk. KK would be in my top 5 but my top 3 Liverpool players would be. Kenny Dalglish John Barnes Graham Souness Even Bob Paisley and Shanks regarded Kenny as the best player ever to wear a Liverpool shirt. "I suppose above everything else when you try to assess Kenny's importance you must talk about his attitude to the game. He just wanted to play football. He had tremendous skill and the ability to set the pace of the game for the other players around him. When I had to sell Kevin Keegan to Hamburg – and we didn't have any choice because Kevin wanted to go to Europe – I didn't think it would be possible to replace him. Yet we did it so easily by buying Kenny from Celtic. In many ways he was a better player for Liverpool than Kevin was. Kenny is a model professional and was the best buy we ever made – it's as simple as that." Bob Paisley Franz Beckenbaur : "He is one of the best players I have ever seen and one of the best players in the history of football." George Best: "When I was growing up my hero was Di Stefano. Kenny for me was on a par with Di Stefano. That is the best compliment I can pay him." "Kenny Dalglish is probably the most modest man who has ever been handed the nickname 'King' but King Kenny he will always be." Former Scotland captain and Leeds United legend Billy Bremner "I never saw anyone in this country to touch him. I can think of only two players who could go ahead of him – Pele and possibly Cruyff. He was better than Maradona, Rummenigge or Platini. I would say that on his day he was, without any shadow of a doubt, the best player in the world." Graeme Souness And though both sets of fans have little time for Souness as a manager, as a player he was the best in the world in his position at the time, and I’ve seen no-one in this country to better him in that position.

I agree Chez, KK was a great player for us, among many others, but Kenny was the best of the lot. He was the best all round player we've ever had. What he lacked in pace he made up for in speed of mind. He had superb ball control, could create something out of nothing and his outstanding individual talent was only surpassed by his willingness to be part of the team. The official site had a vote all of last summer, top 100 players, Kenny came out top still, 20 years after he'd hung up his boots. Can't remember where KK came I'll look it up. Probably top 5, not sure. KK was number 8 Sorry, first link didn't work http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/archivedirs...061008-0859.htm

I agree Chez, KK was a great player for us, among many others, but Kenny was the best of the lot. He was the best all round player we've ever had. What he lacked in pace he made up for in speed of mind. He had superb ball control, could create something out of nothing and his outstanding individual talent was only surpassed by his willingness to be part of the team. The official site had a vote all of last summer, top 100 players, Kenny came out top still, 20 years after he'd hung up his boots. Can't remember where KK came I'll look it up. Probably top 5, not sure.

I wish he'd hurry up then Park Life. It's been known locally for a month or so that the stadium would be shelved. Not bothered about that really, just want the Yanks out. DIC can just sit back now and wait for the fuckers to be desperate which could be a while yet. Afternoon Red. I reckon if Kujit hadn't scored and you'd lost on pens they would have bailed (-40m CL money down). 1. What's your debt (inc buyout) running at? 2. Any truth the yanks have been syphoning money for the hockey/basketball/rounders team? 3. Would you have liked KK as manager? Afternoon to you too Park Life (I'm getting worried now with such manners being used to an opposition fan The debt to the club is 106 million. 66 million to put spades in to the ground of the new stadium, and 40 million for transfers (spent in the winter) The overall debt for their buyout, I've lost count of the actual figure (300 million?), went on to their own company, Kop Holdings, with the interest paid by the club. It was Hicks who said that Liverpool could finance his Yank team, but it was apparently said tongue in cheek, who knows? He couldn't at the minute because there isn't anything to be syphoned off. Once the new stadium had come online then they would have started making some profit but even if it hadn't been shelved it would have been quite a few years down the line before there would have been money over. That's one of the reasons Liverpool having been buying young players for the last few seasons, so that we'd have a pool of players to dip in to when transfer funds would be less than usual for a few years. KK is a Liverpool legend, I loved him as a player, was sad to see him go even though we did replace him with a far better player, so I'm not going to slate him in any way but no, I wouldn't want him as a manager. Rafa Benitez is the only man I can see managing Liverpool at the present time and the only one I'd want tbh.

I would like to point out that this deal is for the Hull game and to qualify you will have to buy a £40 + replica shirt that we will probably only use once or twice just a couple of weeks after the change kit was released. I would also like to point out it was the highest Premier league attendance of the weekend. Both good points. Also, I reckon we've had similar crowds to that in the past that were portrayed as 50k+ based on tickets sold rather than people through the gate. It's just how desperate people are to have a go at us sometimes man. Like people can just casually spend £40 to get some kind of mega deal free ticket, which it's not. It's basically spend £40 and save £10 on a match ticket, why not just buy the match ticket? I think it was more to add weight to his article rather than having a dig Tom.

I wish he'd hurry up then Park Life. It's been known locally for a month or so that the stadium would be shelved. Not bothered about that really, just want the Yanks out. DIC can just sit back now and wait for the fuckers to be desperate which could be a while yet.

I know its early days like, but there is definatley something lacking at Liverpool. You struggled the other night and if you carry on youll get bummed in the group. Whats your thoughts shadow? Honest ones without the red glasses like our "friend" tosser We haven't played well at all. Torres looks jaded. Keane hasn't made any impact yet and others are playing the worst I've seen them. We're picking up points though, and if it had been Man U scoring that goal in injury time, and picking up points in the dying seconds of matches it would have been 'well that's title winning form' not luck. Not that I think we'll win the title, I think Chelsea will walk it, but whatever it is, I'm glad we've had it obviously. The team as a whole haven't looked good up to now, except for a few 15 or 20 minute periods here and there. Our left side looks quite weak with Aurelio and Yossi there. Hopefully Dossena will be the answer to our LB problems once he settles, and failing getting a LW player Babel should step up another notch this season. A new RB would have been good to get as well but finances being what they are we've got Degan on a free, who may or may not turn out to be the good attacking FB Rafa wants. Masch and Lucas are back as well, Masch makes a big difference to the team, balances it out more. I'm not a knee jerker so I'm not really bothered about our early season form, I'll tend to look at it more carefully 6 or 7 games in.

I'm not too bothered about our group tbh. We played Eindhoven 3 times the season before last and drew one 0-0 and beat them 3-0 and 1-0 in the other two games. Marseille beat us at home last season 1-0 but we went over there and beat them 4-0. Atletico could be a bit dodgy, but hopefully by then our better form will have returned.

Read this earlier, don't think it's been done elsewhere. If it has MODS please remove. http://timesonline.typepad.com/fanzine_fan...l-only-mis.html What is it that Guinness advert proclaims? "All good things come to those who wait". Well the Footballing Authorities may not have to wait too much longer until their transition of the game is complete. To rid the game of the bad and populate it only with the good. No more rowdy behaviour, no more rebels of society daring to stand up and make their feelings known, no more problems. Their ideals consist of fans turning up every week, queuing to gain entry in an orderly fashion, having booked their tickets 3 months in advance. Entering the stadium and taking their seats, rising only to applaud goals where they dance along to carefully selected music over the PA, before clearing up their litter and disappearing into the countryside until the following weekend. No hassle, no passion, no noise. "They'll only miss us once we've gone" As the game I know and love becomes more diluted by the passing year, I often wonder just when the breaking point will come. When will those authorised with sanitising our game realise the error of their ways? Or can they not actually see that they are breaking the very foundations of what has made this sport a success? Pound signs blur their vision, seen all too often in every walk of life. Greed takes over, people want more. They've exhausted the Premier League "brand" and now have visions of taking it further afield; the infamous "Game 39". Translated to you and me, meaning they have milked pretty much every penny they can from the "consumers" in this country, and now want to tap into the pockets of those football hungry consumers overseas. All in the name of expanding the pockets of the shareholders, players and governing bodies of our sport. Our sport, not theirs. If I rewind 7 or 8 years; I'm leaving the house on a matchday and making my way to Anfield. There was no need to ring around in the morning; I'd just turn up and walk into one of two or three pubs around the ground, and would bump into people I knew. You knew where everyone would drink, and had done for years. The same faces, the people that made this club what it is. I can pop my head into those same pubs now, and I wouldn't recognise a soul. Those long standing supporters have now all but disappeared, replaced by families from all over, decked out in official replica sportswear and taking pictures of anything that moves. There's a smaller crowd of us left and tend to keep out of the way. We don't conform. Those areas around the ground have now been taken over by the new brigade, while the old guard retreat to pastures further afield. Year after year, more and more people are dropping away. There's still a hardcore of a few hundred that travel everywhere. There's still thousands that go to every home game just like they always have. But it's becoming harder and harder for these people to carry on. Supporters being replaced by consumers. Participants being replaced by spectators. Just how much higher can the bar be raised by the controlling bodies before they've pushed away everyone that gave the game it's appeal in the first place? What happens when the passion disappears for good? You can't manufacture passion, no matter how hard some clubs try. They have mascots running up and down the touchline trying to encourage the fans. At Bolton they play "I feel good" when they score, with two young lads running the length of the pitch with big flags. Music played after goals is now commonplace, as if fans don't know how to celebrate a goal by themselves. Is it because they realise the passion is dead and are trying to hang onto a small semblence of it? Or is it aimed at manufacturing a friendly atmosphere to suit their agenda? Manufactured support; I can't think of anything worse. Handing out those clappers seems to be the next step this season, with the whole of St.Andrews clapping along with them before their opening game. This in a ground that used to be known as one of the most passionate and hostile in football; now transformed into a childrens play ground with everybody doing as they are told. Sat down and singing what the club want them to sing, and clapping when they want them to clap. So sad. Ticket prices on the increase there every season, and a ground I now refuse to visit. £40 for an away ticket some 4 years ago. No thanks. It doesn't take a genius to work out why they barely fill half of that ground any more. Newcastle had their lowest league attendance for nearly a decade at the weekend, with cash turnstiles in operation, entry for £10 if you bought a replica shirt and other such promotions, but still had thousands of empty seats. Manchester United have been contacting everybody on their mailing lists trying to push season ticket sales again this summer. Whereas Old Trafford used to be like Fort Knox when it came to getting in, they're now closer to resembling one of the happy hour bars in Benidorm, with teenagers stood outside handing out cards with promotional offers to encourage trade. What was once a closed shop, is now opening it's doors and trying to drag people in off the streets. Is the football bubble about to burst? I hope so. On Monday night, Portsmouth's most famous fan, the bell ringer with the blue hair, or less commonly known as "John", was approached by the ground staff at Fratton Park and asked to keep the noise down. I'm sure it's not only me that's absolutely staggered by that. Asked to stop ringing his bell and keep the noise down, in a football ground! The mind boggles. But it's another notch on the many that have been made previously, in slowly sanitising the way we support our teams. We are told we're not allowed to stand up as it's unsafe; yet rugby sides play in exactly the same stadia and those rules don't apply. Apparently it's safe for rugby fans to stand in those same seated areas, but not football fans (the reasons for that I could write a book on, and will address again). It's madness. They're also allowed to drink in their seats while watching the game. I know of a fan that was facing a 3 year football banning after peering over the exits at White Hart Lane to catch a goal he'd missed when coming down early at half time. He'd walked down the steps, was handed a pint by a friend, and heard the roar from the stands. He went halfway back up the steps to see what had happened, when two officers arrested him for consuming alcohol in view of the playing surface. It defies belief. But I'm told we're different. As our friend from Portsmouth has pointed out this week; would this sort of discrimination be accepted anywhere else, or by anyone else, but football fans? I was on a final warning in my old season ticket seat for foul and abusive language. I was reported by fellow fans for swearing, and risked losing my season ticket. Now in that seat, I was reserved, very reserved. It was on the halfway line and not a noise was made all season by anyone. They were spectators, I'm a participant, or like to be. I want to go to the game and let off some steam. I go to work to pay the bills, put a roof over the family heads, and to enjoy myself during my time off. I choose to do that at the football, something I've grown up with. It's always been a part of who I am. But in that seat, I had to control myself and just sit and watch the game, conforming to those around me for over 7 years. I must have sworn a handful of times in that entire period, when telling the referee where to go or some other trivial slip of the tongue. Yet I faced losing my season ticket and not being able to support my side over it. I was one swear word away from walking away from the game for good. If this was in a family enclosure I'd understand. I know when swearing is unacceptable, and in my view, a football ground is one of those places where it fits. When I go to the match, I want to stand with fellow fans, my friends. I want to participate in the game, I want to support the side. I want to shout and I want to sing. I want to do the things that made me fall in love with the game and going to the match. But one by one, the authorities are trying to take all those things out of our game. To have us sat in silence, only singing when they want us to sing, and singing the songs they want us to sing. Blaring music over the PA system we are supposed to dance along to. We're unable to create an atmosphere ourselves it seems. For the future, see American sports for how it will go. Club issue foam hands can already be seen, dancing girls have been tried, the list goes on. Keep sanitising; you'll soon be wondering where it all went wrong, when the very people that made this game what it is, have all long since disappeared. There's not many of us left. Soon there will be none. Enjoy modern football. Enjoy scratching your heads in some plush office arguing with each other about who's to blame when the crowds start to stay away. I'll be long past the caring stage. You'll have brought it upon yourselves and destroyed a game loved by millions in the process. I hope it's worth it. Paul Jones

Did someone drop you on your head as baby? I was on the phone to a company there, Believe by Cher came on as the hold music, and I was thinking of SPURS and reading this page at the same time. Are you more obsessed by us than the mackems are by you? does he go onto a spurs message board to try and gloat over their fans? hmmm though not Gloating? When was that? When you signed Modric, Woody, when you won the Carling Cup, the fact for the the first time in over a decade your turnover is higher than ours...should I continue?? It's the same as KingDawson and MartinJol on N/O more posts on a toon mb than there own, now I appreciate we are fascinating, but surely not more fascinating than speaking with your own supporters. I think it's a great message board this now though, you have knowledgable posters, intelligent posters, emotional posters, realistic posters, dense posters, posters who always look like a cunt in any given situation bar none and end up contradicting themselves after a night pushing trollies round hospitals, opposition posters, and WUM posters. I can see why there's more attraction here come to think of it. I can be as contradictory as the next one Rab but why are you so obsessed with what I was doing at 3 am? Don't you have a life of your own to live instead of worrying about others getting home late? Or is it that you only get your kicks from knowing who others are shagging or having a good time with? You sound like a lonely little fucker. You missed out Ian Paisley type posters who think if they lie, make up and rant long enough someone will believe what they're saying is the truth. You're right in respect of this board having a some good posters though, it's well worth a read I've discovered. It's just a pity your input is so abysmal much of the time, it often spoils a good thread. You should study your fellow posters, you never know, something just might rub off, I won't hold my breath though.

It was the middle of the night, as Rab so eloquently pointed out. Chelsea and QPR are the richest clubs on the planet apparently but that's a recent thing. Most clubs still build their teams according to what they bring in, with maybe a small (in comparison) investment by a new owner. No doubt in the future a rich owner willing to put a big percentage of his own money in to a club will be the norm, but at the moment Chelsea are a freak club and one of the few that have built their status on someone coming in and spending 500 million over their income as a club. Their trophy winning is taking them up the big club scale though. A club winning trophies is bound to get richer but it's the actual trophies that make it big in other fans eyes usually.

haddaway and shite man It's a joke how highly this club are rated. Their fans make the loudest noises about how big they are, supporters of genuinely massive clubs like Manchester United don't have to. Celtic are a very big worldwide fanbased club, you only have to look at their turnover to realise that. Scottish clubs have a far smaller income from TV etc and still Celtic had a turnover of 122 million Euros. I think it's a bit rich to use the rich list as a gauge of size of club. By that reckoning 5 or 6 years ago Shepherd was right and we were the 8th biggest club in the world. Not bad for a "small club". 111m Euros really isn't that spectacular. The last Deloitte report published was this year, Celtic's turnover was 111m Euro's, our s was 130m. In £ sterling this was the list.... 1 1 Real Madrid Pounds 236.2m 2 4 Man Utd Pounds 212.1m 3 2 Barcelona Pounds 195.3m 4 6 Chelsea Pounds 190.5m 5 9 Arsenal Pounds 177.6m 6 5 AC Milan Pounds 153m 7 8 Bayern Munich Pounds 150.3m 8 10 Liverpool Pounds 133.9m 9 7 Internazionale Pounds 131.3m 10 12 AS Roma Pounds 106.1m 11 15 Tottenham Pounds 103.1m 12 3 Juventus Pounds 97.7m 13 11 Lyons Pounds 94.6m 14 13 Newcastle Pounds 87.1m (lowest position in 10 years) 15 16 Hamburg SV Pounds 81.0m 16 14 Schalke Pounds 76.9m 17 - Celtic Pounds 75.2m 18 - Valencia Pounds 72.4m 19 - Marseille Pounds 66.6m 20 - Werder Bremen Pounds 65.5m This was our breakdown.... Newcastle Matchday 33.6m Broadcasting 25.9m Commercial 27.6m Celtic Matchday 34.3m Broadcasting 23.2m Commercial 17.7m Disproving the myth that the TV money is the reason Celtic are behind against clubs like us. Our broadcasting was just under 3m more than there's, their loss of Premiership money (against us anyway as we had no CL) is almost completely off-set against the Champions League purse they gained by almost reaching the Quarter Final of the CL in 2007. On the commercial side, we are £27m against their £17m..you would think such a WERRULDWIDE club with money pouring in from their WERRULDWIDE fanbase, would dwarf ours, in shirt sale, sponsorship, corporate interest...pmsl..but no People buy in to myths and always will. I agree, people do buy in to myths, they also use out of date lists. Rankings for the 2007/08 season Full listing Rank Club Revenue (€ million) Country 1. Manchester United 365.2 England 2. Real Madrid 341.1 Spain 3. Chelsea 334.5 England 4. Arsenal 299.4 England 5. Barcelona 293.8 Spain 6. Liverpool 244.8 England 7. Bayern Munich 232.3 Germany 8. Inter 221.6 Italy 9. AC Milan 217.4 Italy 10. Tottenham 171.2 England 11. Juventus 170.2 Italy 12. Roma 166.5 Italy 13. Lyon 151.6 France 14. Newcastle 139.4 England 15. Manchester City 131.4 England 16. Schalke 04 130.3 Germany 17. Hamburg 127.4 Germany 18. Celtic 122.8 Scotland 19. Aston Villa 108.3 England 19. Rangers 103.1 Scotland 20. Werder Bremen 101.3 Germany I used the financial route because on planet Stevie that, and attendances, appear to be the only things that matter to make a big club. In reality these two things are only a small part of it. I think that most footy fans use trophies as the main criteria for the status of a club. The more, and the regularity of winning them, the bigger you become. Simple as really, no need for myths when using this as a measure.

That Gutierrez song was created by a couple of Ultras, but I take your point. I tend to think that Man United's songs are canny, but variety is definitely the key to thier success. They never seem to repeat the same song much, when they've been at our place anyway, with the exceptiopn of the 'cheer up' song. Liverpool for example though, they come up with a song and then do it to fucking death.. we've been guilty of that too. Agree with everything you've said there. Liverpool's songs border on embarrassing we don't want that, "Dirk Kuyt loves this city" I mean for fuck sake, what's the next line there, "till he got his hoose burgled". Man Utd's are class though, even Viva Ronaldo is catchy despite its simplicity. People should fucking have a go and write some, regardless how ridiculous they seem. You get more pathetic with every Liverpool obsessed sentence you write. I'm in the Kop every fortnight and that is not a song I've heard sung there ffs. Just because you read somebodies mumbling effort on an internet forum does'nt mean it's sung at the match. If it did, 90 minutes wouldn't be long enough to sing them all. Oh and the Kuyt fever one was something sung in the pub, it was just a few fans having a laugh because it's so gay. BTW, if Liverpools great songs border on the embarrassing for you then give it up yourself lad because that effort is as embarrassing as they come. 319am for fuck sake you've just got in from a night "grafting", and a brilliant yellow flashing light with a police siren, goes off above your bed, and a loud posh woman's voice goes off..WARNING..LIVERPOOL ARE BEING ABUSED ON THE INTERNET..WARNING..LIVERPOOL ARE BEING ABUSED ON THE INTERNET...you must have some alarm system, you must have. As for Dirk Kuyt loves this city never being sung at Anfield that is just a plain and simple lie. To be fair I haven't heard it of late, but his first season it was sung a fair bit home and away, and your form for lying shows no bounds for ending denying it has been. The only point I was making was the toon shouldn't go down the Liverpool road of patheticness like "a team full of Carra's" I cringe when I hear their songs, same with Arsenal "I love you Freddy" 4fs, we should be heading down the Man Utd road of funny little dittys. Are you actually questioning why someone is up at 3.15 in the morning? It has fuck all to do with anyone, least of all some Ian Paisley/Rab C Nesbitt character who knows his own tricks best. Me lying? You can hardly write a simple post without lying or using some made up story that you THINK will prove your point. I repeat, I am in the kop at every home match and have not heard that Kuyt song, does it have any more words or was it just some silly chant, there is a difference you know? Are you a secret red or something, that you’re so sure you know what’s going on in there all the time, you’re obsession is getting worse. I won’t even get in to the quality of Liverpool songs argument because I have no need to, we have many, many quality songs and ditties that compete with the best and have been copied by other fans for decades. I won’t lose any sleep because some internet whopper thinks they’re crap. If the Carra song makes you cringe then honestly, give up trying to write one yourself because cringeworthy is the only word that could be related to your effort.

haddaway and shite man It's a joke how highly this club are rated. Their fans make the loudest noises about how big they are, supporters of genuinely massive clubs like Manchester United don't have to. Celtic are a very big worldwide fanbased club, you only have to look at their turnover to realise that. Scottish clubs have a far smaller income from TV etc and still Celtic had a turnover of 122 million Euros.

That Gutierrez song was created by a couple of Ultras, but I take your point. I tend to think that Man United's songs are canny, but variety is definitely the key to thier success. They never seem to repeat the same song much, when they've been at our place anyway, with the exceptiopn of the 'cheer up' song. Liverpool for example though, they come up with a song and then do it to fucking death.. we've been guilty of that too. Agree with everything you've said there. Liverpool's songs border on embarrassing we don't want that, "Dirk Kuyt loves this city" I mean for fuck sake, what's the next line there, "till he got his hoose burgled". Man Utd's are class though, even Viva Ronaldo is catchy despite its simplicity. People should fucking have a go and write some, regardless how ridiculous they seem. You get more pathetic with every Liverpool obsessed sentence you write. I'm in the Kop every fortnight and that is not a song I've heard sung there ffs. Just because you read somebodies mumbling effort on an internet forum does'nt mean it's sung at the match. If it did, 90 minutes wouldn't be long enough to sing them all. Oh and the Kuyt fever one was something sung in the pub, it was just a few fans having a laugh because it's so gay. BTW, if Liverpools great songs border on the embarrassing for you then give it up yourself lad because that effort is as embarrassing as they come.

I do understand where you're coming from Danny but I'm not talking about locals leaving it to the last minute there was a '1 day' window to apply for your tickets online and they went into a ballot with no loyalty given to previous applicants. As I said before though, that's the fault of the club. In fairness, I think the situation at Man Utd is different now with Glazer releasing a lot more season tickets. Prior to Glazer the number of season tickets issued was deliberately suppressed down to just below 20k from a 60k capacity. I'd no problem with this policy, it 'protected' long standing season ticket holders when it came to cup finals etc and still allowed those who couldn't afford season tickets to get to games through the ballot. It did become a bit of a farce though as ST's were handed down through generations or bought on the black market with a change of address. I actually got a 'congratulations' letter from the club on my 100th Birthday despite only being 40 odd as that was the DOB of the original holder Same here, always have been handed down from generation to generation. The club had an amnesty a couple of years ago so that people could use their proper details. It'll always be that way though.

I don't, it's when the media do it that it gets on my tits. They need a name for all of the big clubs though, hence the reason Spurs don't have one. I've never understood why Liverpool are never referred to as the dippers in the press in the same way we're referred to as the toon.... Would love to hear your logic for that one without mentioning a song made up by Mancs that has nothing whatsoever to do with football, nor any reason for it. I can relate to FCUM in lots of ways. I don’t care where anyone is from although I don’t always understand the lack of connection to a club, but live and let live as far as I’m concerned. Some of the best fans I know are OOTS, however, like FCUM with Manchester kids, I despair for the kids of Liverpool who, unlike me and my mates, cannot just go to the match willy nilly, in fact it’s near impossible for them to go unless their Dad takes them on one of these Dad and lad things. Liverpool and Everton have always had a cap on the amount of season tickets allowed, one of the reasons being, so the up and coming fans will have a chance to see the team, but you spend so many hours on the phone, or refreshing the website that lots give up and say fuck it because they object to competing with OOTS . Being a two team city with no distance between them, it would be far easier for the ‘not born to it’ kids to support Everton and that could seriously erode the Scouse support at Liverpool in the future. At the moment the percentage of L postcode match goers evens up for both clubs in accordance to their attendances, but unless we get the bigger ground and the original plan of only allowing 1,000 more season tickets, I can’t see our young local support growing, because most young ones can’t afford a season ticket.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7556937.stm Something I've been saying for years. And as the tory think tank themselves admit 'No doubt some people will claim that these proposals unreasonable and perhaps plain barmy' but you're no stranger to that kind of thinking are you, most of what you say either being made up or complete bollicks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7556937.stm steve will cream over that statement like He'll be somewhere wanking himself stupid over this, wouldn't be surprised if he was part of the mad tory think tank that came out with it. We're still the best looking though.