ChezGiven

So if its a fact that the population is ageing and its a fact that elderly people cost more in healthcare and its a fact that the UK government has less money to spend, are you proposing dedicating higher and higher % of GDP towards healthcare? You're not actually proposing 'a line in the sand' which is just bullshit, you're actually saying we need to spend more of what we have on health. Or are you saying we have it about right and that we should maintain current levels by reducing spending on things like Trident? Which costs 100bn over 30 years, so saves 3bn a year. I like the debate to be framed in relation to: how much of our GDP should we spend on healthcare, how should it be financed, how should it be allocated and how should that allocated spending be evaluated? Of those 4 fundamental questions over system performance, the NHS concept only relates to one of them, the allocation mechanism.

Thanks for adding Japan into the mix, very supportive of the point i was making. Norway! I'm not even going to bother with that, too funny / hopeless.

Its the desperation to hold onto it thats causing the problems. Its really very simple, costs of healthcare are going up, money to fund it is going down. You therefore end up having to make a choice, give aunty Doris another week of insanely expensive healthcare or have the streets cleaned? Demographic change dictates that either an increasingly larger proportion of government spending goes on health and we dont spend on other things or we try and find ways to get more out of what we've got. I blame the people who cant do basic maths who should know better as much as anyone else Old people cost the most healthcare money and pay no taxes towards funding the system Our population is now older, meaning higher costs and lower taxes with which to fund services In addition to this demographic change, the underlying assumptions about economic growth have changed Something has to give. You spouting on about lines in the sand reminds me of the party political broadcasts from Germany referring to their healthcare system and the references to the NHS in the UK. Just to be clear, fighting for the NHS as it is, fighting for no change, fighting for the same 100% government financed and supplied healthcare service, is fighting for a smaller NHS, its fighting for less healthcare in absolute terms for each of us. That's an economic fact.

Pretty sure 12 months ago everyone wanted Ashley to get rid of Llambias and bring a football person in. Pardew said he wanted more football people in the club last season. Ashley grants everyone their wish in his own inimitable style.

Really? Don't see much difference between Kinnear and Llambias apart from their respective backgrounds.

Ignored due to its irrelevance to the discussion.

Aye good point Rents, at anything above 20% APR it becomes too much for him. What a load of shite this is.

In that case it's got nothing to do with Islamic law. There is nothing in the Koran about pay-day lenders but there is, apparently, something about usury. Virgin money is not compliant with the principle so under any reading of the religious law, its hypocritical. Religious morality doesn't work like secular morality and you are confusing them. The consequences of pay day lending are why people have an issue with them, they can lead to negative problems for certain people. Thou shalt not commit usury doesn't refer to its consequences. The two main moral theories humans adhere to can be summarised as 'the goodness of an action is determined by what is right' (as per religious law) and 'the rightness of an action is determined by what is good' (as measured by its consequence). Therefore Cissé is a fucking hypocrite.

This is not my beautiful club.

Is Fish the only bloke in the world to wear trainers for the commute and pop his cuban-heeled brogues on when he gets to the office?

There is no evidence that Cissé feels the same as ATP and has a problem on an individual level nor is there any evidence that he follows AB's view that the very high interest rates are unislamic (an that therefore by definition the high street rates offered by Virgin are fairly Islamic). I think therefore that the most likely explanation for the episode is the pay rise on offer in Russia.

My one starts school in September. Just the nursery school half days but its still a big moment. I'm a bit nervous about how it will affect her English, she's bilingual now but I worry about how her attitude will evolve to her dad's language.

Or the other way round, ethics v morals, whichever it is

Well can you not explain for us? I didn't think it was an ethical position, I thought it was a moral one? Sharia law prohibits usury which is the collection and payment of interest. Which is what Virgin money do. Is it not inconsistent?

I saw a very disturbing film about a couple of similar women.

Fluked his way to 5th but was not unlucky last year? How can a team come 5th with a dreadful manager when Ryan Taylor, Gabriel Obertan, James Perch and Mike Williamson are starting on a regular basis. He's had one good season with us and one bad. To judge him as dreadful is therefore, in my opinion, a bit stupid. Sorry if that offends but 'dreadful' is not an objective appraisal of his time here.

You mean resonance dont you

He is devilishly good looking though to be fair.

Anyone know why he hasnt been arrested for his racist tweets? I thought thats what happened nowadays. Just re-read the first part of this thread

That's not narcissism though. All people, not just men, give more time to better looking people. Its a known phenomena.

I knew what you meant.

He'a a twat. Isnt that the point?

Poached egg or Master poacher. And you claim to be a writer.

I think we picked up that first one in the height/weight thread G.