ChezGiven

Rapey Its funny every time.

Thats the faint glimmer of hope Tom, he does a Robbie Keane and we make a profit on him whilst he grows up.

Liverpool's net spend was only £1.5m this window, they've got plenty to spend in the summer. I dont want him to be but i reckon he will be heartbreakingly good for them.

That's Barney off here man.

I don't buy thgat either mind. It would only sert a precedent for players getting their market worth. If Taylor or Ameobi tried it we'd pack their bags for them. Or players who were subject to ridiculously high offers. Most people, a few weeks ago, would have said 35m for AC would be mental. He was happy,signed a contract and openly admitted to wanting to stay. One word, greed. He's got 10 years or something to make as much money as he can, then 50 years to spend it. He's a thick fuck who won't be getting any punditry work. I'd have no problem with him moving for monetary reasons. What makes him a twat is getting Chez's hopes up with all his press releases before christmas when he knew NUFC have a wage structure they won't break. He came out with this crap knowing he'd jump at the chance to move somewhere that will pay him more. This bollocks about wanting to stay and being gutted is pathetic. Barton took a pay cut to stay with a club he felt he owed as it (fans more than anything) had stood by him (on the whole) through troubling times. The club has given Carroll everything he has, turned him from a decidedly iffy left-back into the countries most exciting young striker and stood by him through troubling times. I cant lay all of this at Carroll's door, it defies logic to do so and if he flops at Liverpool i'd have him back in a flash.

Or this season. People seem to be prepared to write that off which I'm always a bit surprised about tbh. I'm not getting any younger and I was enjoying this one on the whole (certainly relative to expectations). I'm expecting pretty turgid fare from now on and a return to the days when the match often feels like an inconvenience between drinking sessions. GREAT ©. All this rebuilding talk is pie in the sky as well imo. I worry about the players, they've already had to have a crisis meeting and decide that they were going to knuckle down and fight for the club this season. A second one might not have the same impact, if any of them can be arsed to hold it.

I'm not in the slightest bit calm, think this has knocked the wind right out of our sails. Be surprised if we pick many points this month.

Well what he has to say certainly ties in a bit better with my made-up completely dramatised version of events. Not sure if you're taking the piss but your version is convoluted and a bit implausible and mine is based on the influence of agents and him actually handing in a transfer request. You haven't responded to the 10 minute turnaround on transfer request submission, acceptance, and acceptance of Liverpool's bid hitting their website. I don't think it's either convoluted or implausible. My version also involves the influence of agents and him actually handing in a transfer request. As your twitter feed isnt an accurate timeline of real events. Also, as stated, the rumours from friends etc about him leaving were circulating all morning. Finally, a deal is done when one word is uttered. If he has been trying to negotiate a new contract 2 months after he has signed one, if there is 40m sitting on a table, the player is angling for a move and talking to a club, when the transfer request comes in it wont take more than a few minutes to decide. So thats accounting for your twitter feed from the training ground and boardroom. It is implausible, as are Carroll's comments that he was 'forced into a corner' implying but not directly saying 'he was forced into handing a transfer request' something which you claimed he did willingly with a big smile on his face. Aye we'll have to agree to disagree. It's implausible cos I said so isn't gonna cut it. I've reasoned my argument at every turn so i'll accept the first sentence but not the second.

Well what he has to say certainly ties in a bit better with my made-up completely dramatised version of events. Not sure if you're taking the piss but your version is convoluted and a bit implausible and mine is based on the influence of agents and him actually handing in a transfer request. You haven't responded to the 10 minute turnaround on transfer request submission, acceptance, and acceptance of Liverpool's bid hitting their website. I don't think it's either convoluted or implausible. My version also involves the influence of agents and him actually handing in a transfer request. As your twitter feed isnt an accurate timeline of real events. Also, as stated, the rumours from friends etc about him leaving were circulating all morning. Finally, a deal is done when one word is uttered. If he has been trying to negotiate a new contract 2 months after he has signed one, if there is 40m sitting on a table, the player is angling for a move and talking to a club, when the transfer request comes in it wont take more than a few minutes to decide. So thats accounting for your twitter feed from the training ground and boardroom. It is implausible, as are Carroll's comments that he was 'forced into a corner' implying but not directly saying 'he was forced into handing a transfer request' something which you claimed he did willingly with a big smile on his face.

Well what he has to say certainly ties in a bit better with my made-up completely dramatised version of events. Not sure if you're taking the piss but your version is convoluted and a bit implausible and mine is based on the influence of agents and him actually handing in a transfer request.

Maybe because he put in a transfer request?

Just saying it like i see it. I try not to rely on approval ratings.

I wonder if letting multi-million pound business decisions rest in the hands of a 22 year old footballer and his agent is the kind of business acumen that made Mike all his money? Its the simplest explanation. It was in the hands of Abramovich, without the Torres money, there was no deal. Torres, his agent, Carroll, his agent were the decision-makers.

Fabregas would be a better example. I wasn't searching for a perfect analogy, i was looking for an example of a club selling a player they would have preferred to keep.

Exactly. I'm not saying otherwise. You seemed confident they were telling the truth when they said they wouldn't accept an offer....whatever package was put together. Others weren't so confident in club statements. I'd call offering hundred pound bets on that misreading the club. They rejected a bid of £35m before he put a transfer request in. Apparently that happened in 7 (seven) minutes which is proof that they didnt really reject they were just saying they were whilst they convinced Carroll to hand in a transfer request so they could go back and accept it. Unlikely imo.

Because the price was so high.

3 hours? Or 7 minutes? Am not clear on the timelines.

Wouldn't have thought you'd be as superior as usual for a while, after your 100% guarantee that Carroll wouldn't be sold in this window. I read Carroll wrong and not the club. Understandable given his comments. It wasnt a guarantee either, it was a bet that nae one wanted. I'm more upset about this than when Cole left because am a hopeless bellend of a romantic who loved the fact that we had a home grown number 9. If you think i'm going to pipe down as i was convinced he would stay then you're wrong. How did you not read the club wrong? They've chosen to sell the lad when he's tied up on a five year contract. I dont think Man U wanted rid of Ronaldo but they sold him. What about when Rooney put in a transfer request? The club took the time to speak to the boy and work things out. What happened here was; Bid for 35m - Rejected Transfer Request - Accepted within 10 minutes Bid Accepted That doesn't work. Transfer requests can be knocked back and contracts re-negotiated to bring him closer in line with what he's valued at in the current marketplace. Its interesting you bring up Rooney, the reason he stayed was because of his concern for his public reputation with the club be was potentially leaving. The difference here being the club's willingness to match his potential wages and Ronney being a scouser.

Wouldn't have thought you'd be as superior as usual for a while, after your 100% guarantee that Carroll wouldn't be sold in this window. I read Carroll wrong and not the club. Understandable given his comments. It wasnt a guarantee either, it was a bet that nae one wanted. I'm more upset about this than when Cole left because am a hopeless bellend of a romantic who loved the fact that we had a home grown number 9. If you think i'm going to pipe down as i was convinced he would stay then you're wrong. How did you not read the club wrong? They've chosen to sell the lad when he's tied up on a five year contract. I dont think Man U wanted rid of Ronaldo but they sold him.

Well they supposedly rejected the £35m bid the first time it came in. Until...WHAT?! He's handed a transfer request in?! Oh I don't believe this, we'll have to sell him now, Mike. Shall we reluctantly accept it? So it is what you're saying. 'Not welcome but hand in a transfer request' doesnt make any sense. Fucking hell man, Chez. I don't know how many times I can explain this. The club made their mind up they wanted to sell him. The club give the agent permission to present the deal to the player. The player likes the look of the crazy sums of money that are being presented to him, and wants to move. The club tell the agent that the player would be doing them a big favour if he hands a transfer request in, and they'll accept the bid. The player, his head turned by the money that's being offered to him, hands the request in. The request is instantly "reluctantly accepted" (within a matter of minutes). 10 minutes later the "bid accepted" notice is up on Liverpool's website - it's almost as if they had already written it and were just waiting to press the button. I've never said that Carroll was gutted, desperately didn't want to go, and yet still handed a request in. First of all, can you stop replying in that exasperated tone, this is a genuine point of debate. Most of that just places you're pre-determined narrative on events.The idea that Carroll didnt know what was on the table from Liverpool until 4.30pm yesterday is laughable. As likely is that 'Club rejects £35m (known), player hands in transfer request (known), club accepts and sells him knowing they at least have their price' As Barney said if ashley had backed Pardew and knocked back £40m for Carroll he'd be a fucking saint, there is no question on them being prepared to accept the money. You're narrative has the club wanting the money and not the player hence there is this convoluted and non-sensical idea that Carroll hands in a transfer request as a favour. The reality is more likely that a decision to sell him was in the balance and that was tippedd when Carroll said fuck it i'm off. Try not to swear. To be fair, the exasperated tone is because I've written this out umpteen times, and you've been dismissive and sarcy in your responses whilst (admittedly) never seeming to grasp what I've said. I'm not suggesting he didn't know what was on the table til half 4. Working on what we know of timings (and not going down the route of this has been set up all window, cos none of us know that), once the press conference was moved (11:20am), the club were already thinking that they were going to sell Andy Carroll, and needed more time to see what the player thought about it etc. By 2:25, the press conference conference is cancelled, and the player is going. I don't get why you find it so difficult to believe that the agent and the Club couldn't convince Carroll that handing a transfer request in was the right thing to do. They've just presented him with untold riches. He wants to go. Just sign this bit of paper Andy, and we'll be in a helicopter to Liverpool. Do you believe that the club really wanted to keep him and the player forced their hand? Because that's the alternative. It was in the balance and then he handed in the transfer request. Player wanting to leave + £40m = decision to let him go. Its the simplest explanation.

Wouldn't have thought you'd be as superior as usual for a while, after your 100% guarantee that Carroll wouldn't be sold in this window. I read Carroll wrong and not the club. Understandable given his comments. It wasnt a guarantee either, it was a bet that nae one wanted. I'm more upset about this than when Cole left because am a hopeless bellend of a romantic who loved the fact that we had a home grown number 9. If you think i'm going to pipe down as i was convinced he would stay then you're wrong.

Aye, Carroll handed in the transfer request as favour to the club. If people didnt rush to fit events to pre-determined points of view and instead analysed the facts, the debtate around this club would be a lot better.

Well they supposedly rejected the £35m bid the first time it came in. Until...WHAT?! He's handed a transfer request in?! Oh I don't believe this, we'll have to sell him now, Mike. Shall we reluctantly accept it? So it is what you're saying. 'Not welcome but hand in a transfer request' doesnt make any sense. Fucking hell man, Chez. I don't know how many times I can explain this. The club made their mind up they wanted to sell him. The club give the agent permission to present the deal to the player. The player likes the look of the crazy sums of money that are being presented to him, and wants to move. The club tell the agent that the player would be doing them a big favour if he hands a transfer request in, and they'll accept the bid. The player, his head turned by the money that's being offered to him, hands the request in. The request is instantly "reluctantly accepted" (within a matter of minutes). 10 minutes later the "bid accepted" notice is up on Liverpool's website - it's almost as if they had already written it and were just waiting to press the button. I've never said that Carroll was gutted, desperately didn't want to go, and yet still handed a request in. First of all, can you stop replying in that exasperated tone, this is a genuine point of debate. Most of that just places you're pre-determined narrative on events.The idea that Carroll didnt know what was on the table from Liverpool until 4.30pm yesterday is laughable. As likely is that 'Club rejects £35m (known), player hands in transfer request (known), club accepts and sells him knowing they at least have their price' As Barney said if ashley had backed Pardew and knocked back £40m for Carroll he'd be a fucking saint, there is no question on them being prepared to accept the money. You're narrative has the club wanting the money and not the player hence there is this convoluted and non-sensical idea that Carroll hands in a transfer request as a favour. The reality is more likely that a decision to sell him was in the balance and that was tippedd when Carroll said fuck it i'm off. Try not to swear.

Well they supposedly rejected the £35m bid the first time it came in. Until...WHAT?! He's handed a transfer request in?! Oh I don't believe this, we'll have to sell him now, Mike. Shall we reluctantly accept it? So it is what you're saying. 'Not welcome but hand in a transfer request' doesnt make any sense.

The player only talks to Liverpool if the club tee it up for him. Which puts it back on the club's willingness to sell. Of course, anything else would be breaching the rules. The club's willingness to sell any player is based on their 'price'. All players have a price, ergo they are willing to sell all players. Its the players decision. As for your scenario dreamt up whilst watching it unfold on twitter. 'We dont want you Andy, you're not welcome anymore' 'Seriously? Am gutted' 'Yeah and hand in a transfer request while you're at it' 'OK' Least plausible scenario.